conversations with the girls (videos)... | Autism PDD
"bullet, they don't initiate much unless they want something"
If it makes you feel any better in terms of how they're doing with their communication skills I rarely initiated even if I wanted something and still have difficulties.
I spent the whole of my secondary school (age 11 to 16) in the same PE kit as I couldn't ask for a new one.
Wow the girls are doing great! They look much bigger than in the pictures you have on your sig. The both have good drawing skills. My son cant even draw or color appropiate yet. He makes lines, circles, crosses and thats it. He can make a happy face also and is learning to draw the body in lines.
23red - they don't talk much without someone 'leading' them or unless they want something. They do like to 'act silly', chase each other around pretending to be this animal or that monters, etc., but they rarely engage in social conversation. The do on occasion, though - they can, it's just not something they're motivated to do. If I were to film them sitting at the table without egging them on, they'd either just act silly, or, more likely, eat in silence.
nakama - the autism classes down here are TEACCH based, which is why they are appealing. The cucciculum would be adapted for their specific defecits and the method of teaching would be, too. I feel that a good, TEACCH based curriculum focusing on classroom skills, social and language skills and such would be very beneficial - exposing them to typical peers each day, but spending at least part of the day in the autism class. DW feels strongly that they should be in the regular class until it's determined that they can't make it there (if it ever is). The school agrees with her assessment, so for now, I'd say the regular class is still most likely, but I'm going at least view the autism class and talk with the teachers asap.
Emma's Mom - I agree, a seperate class would not be the LRE, but as tzoya often and rightfully points out, inclusion isn't always the best for our kids, who sometimes don't notice enough of what's going on around them to really benefit from it. It's hard to say with these two. They do notice things in their environment, but not as readily as typical kids - they are very self absorbed with whatever they are doing at the the time.
Shelley - yes, the girls and Sarah, I think, are very much alike socially. They try to engage other kids, but when the lose interest (which is usually quick), they just drop them like a hot potato and move on to something else. They do play with other kids, but it's very short termed and usually very concrete activities. Interestingly, they often get other kids imitating them, because they usually do weird things that other kids aren't used to seeing! Sometimes, they'll get other kids running around pretending to be animals or using the playground equipment in inappropriate ways. Unfortuneately, this type of behavior is usually corrected :(
emereld, I think non-stop questions and chatter is the norm. My son was like that (why why why why!). Also, the girls have always had good articulation, even when they were essentially non-verbal. They have better articulation than some NT kids that I know who are around their age, but their ability and desire to communicate is much different. The girls very rarely ask questions out of curiousity, though Abbie is starting to ask what certain terms and words mean when she hears something unfamiliar.
Fred,
Your girls are so much like Sarah it's scary!
I would mainstream them without one hesitation as thier language is so advanced compared to special ed. or even an autism classroom...the hardest thing for them will be social skills with other peers and accepting their peers agenda and joining them..
Speech therapy is only as good as the therapists and if she has no clue on teaching pragmatics to HFA then it may not be in their best interest..communicate their needs in this area explicitely to the speech path.. till she totally understands the gaps that need filling in. Sarah was doing worksheets on what pic goes with the letter "B"...which she could do at age 2 if she wanted to!
..the speech path was only interested in her articulation and ablility to do worksheets..
Next year I will not assume they are giving her the right therapy without questioning how they plan on helping her..
All the kids in reg. kindergarten are a little ADD to me and the teacher has many tools to keep them on track so I wouldnt worry too much in this area. The kids are good at helping each other out too when they see someone is lost of off track:)
Sarah was less verbal than your girls last year at 6 and did perfect:)
I would love to see some videos of your girls with other peers:) Sarah is just fine with us but odd with peers..talks at them than with them..she likes to make statements and they are clueless of why?
The back and forth reciprocating is wonderful and attn. getting commands to you to look at their pictures is awesome. We had to work very hard to get Sarah to say" look at this or me..ect"
They are doing soooo great!! I couldnt tell much difference between them other than Evie has a more reserved personality compared to Abbie:)
I dont think ABA could help them at all at this point unless they have some aweful tantrums...they are already up to par with peers language and skills wise and ABA is not very good at motivating social as I would like it too.
I think they will develop and progress more individually if separated into 2 different classes... less chance of tantrums but I dont have twins:) I wish I had a dig. camera here to post Sarah..
One thing worth mentioning is that Sarah would do anything the teachers asked of her and all my worries of her getting lost or unable to do tasks were unfounded...she loves the rules of school better than the nt kiddos do and had no problems at all:) Socially your girls are going to be very popular just because they are twins..use it to their advantage:) I never met twins in school that werent well known or liked so it will make them more approachable ~kids are drawn to them....and the fact they are so adorable:)
Fred,
I think the girls have very good language skills. My nearly 7 year old daughter cannot talk nearly that much, and she is in general ed. I am finishing my credential program, and will be teaching a special education K/1 class next year. Your girls appear to be way too high functioning for my class. I do not think a special day class is the least restrictive environment for them. I had toyed with putting my daughter in special day class just due to the reduced class size, but that was before I spent time in one. I will have about 8-10 kids next year, and I intend to focus on teaching social skills and building routine in class, but I know my daughter would not function well in a class with a lot of disruptive behavior. If they need a quiet environment, they will probably do better in general education. My daughter was able to do okay even with her severe language delay.
I only have Mason to compare the girls to as far as speech and to me they sounded wonderful! I do agree that it does seem that they tend to answer questions more than initiate the conversation...but they do initiate it some...where as Mason never does that, he will only answer questions...really short answers and in order to get more from him I need to ask more questions...the girls did tend to keep going here and there...but then again they could have been focused on their drawings or suckers.
I can compare them to my 4 yr old and actually your girls articulation is a lot better...and I don't know, maybe my DD is the atypical here, but we just can't seem to get her to ever be quiet, lol...she just talks and talks...asking question after question!
I'd say for the most part they seem to do very well...I was curious too how it was with other children, but then I saw you posted that answer...also have you ever just video taped them without them knowing and just got their conversations with each other? I would love to see that.
We only have mainstream school where I live with pull-out for whatever is needed, so I don't really know what it's like to have an autism class or special needs class for that matter...but I honestly think the girls will do great in mainstream...I guess now the question is, keep them together or separate, huh?
Be very proud, they are doing great!
Fred, one other thing.
I know you HAVE heard it here, before, from others, but ... T's EI therapists actually went to the effort to come to her first IEP meeting, to advocate for her and keep her OUT OF our SD's (at the time) Special Needs Preschool classroom. They felt THAT strongly about how much mainstreaming would benefit her!
And yeah, Niki is right -- you should "BE PROUD, they are doing GREAT!
Hi Fred,
I think they would do well in a regular ed kindergarten. Maybe a consultant that would be hired by the school to help the teachers support them would be a benefit.
I think they seem to be past ABA, and I am only saying this because I have friends with high functioning kids, and they are in programs that are more schedule based, like TEACCH, with inclusion the other half of the day. These friends also have complaints, however, that ABA classes arent the right fit for their kids, because they don't need the drills anymore, but on the other hand, they are very concerned for them in social areas in a typical class. Your girls are young enough where I don't think the kindergarten peers would notice their differences.
You should be very proud of them.
. It's so nice to see them doing so well. I wish them all the best.I only watched the drawing video (boy do I eveny their FM skills). Like you said earlier, "Also, if I weren't pulling the conversation along, they'd mainly be silence :)". That is what struck me--yes they were conversing, but most of their talking was answers to your questions. Instead of asking what they are doing, comment on it. Share your thougts, and even if they don't respond appropriatly at first, they will learn that conversing isn't just answering questions. There were instances of emotion sharing, "Look Daddy" and things like that, but I felt like so many of your comments were questions.
Also, my son, who is so not at the level of language or FM skills your kids are, did reg. ed. kindergarten w/ an aide. He did very well--he loved school, the kids and teachers. My biggest thing, though, was for the teachers not to worry about every curricular objective. I asked them to really help my son with the biggies--story telling, sequencing, and writing. Those are needed for first grade. That helped them relax a little--they were worried that he wasn't getting everything and that I would be mad. For me, that was not at all the case.
thanks Linda. Their attention span is good if they're on a topic of interest (butterflies, monter house, drawing, etc.) or if they have lollipops :)
Not so great when it comes to doing things that they don't neccessarily want to do. Especially Evie, who has a stronger ADD component to her ASD than Abbie does.
Thanks for the feedback so far, folks. Melody, I think you have Abbie and Evie confused. Abbie was the one talking about the towel and the one talking louder and more. Abbie does most of the talking, true - she has a more outgoing personality. However, Evie tests ahead of her in every congnative assessment (higher IQ, higher language and academic acheivement scores, etc.). and Abbie is generally considered the more affected. Evie used to talk for the both of them, but now Abbie definitely talks more. Now that she has better language, she is more confident and her personality is shining through.
We brought this up to their private SLP (I had feared that Evie was actually regressing) and she thinks that Evie has not regressed at all - just has more or less 'plateaud' with her langauge development as she is getting closer and closer to age appropriate, so the rate of progress has slowed down, while Abigail has just exploded in the past 9 months or so, and now talks a blue streak around her sister. Now that they're close in ability with their language, it is clear that Abigail is much more outgoing and social and Evie has a more quiet and serious personality.
WiMom, the don't do as well with peers, as expected. They do play with kids their age, but they tend to run around and play with toys rather than converse with them. They're improving in this department, but they do better with adults, as do most of our kids. Also, if I weren't pulling the conversation along, they'd mainly be silence :)
If Evie scores even better, then I definitely think they are both just fine being mainstreamed. I think they'll do well, and they both will probably do well to have the NT social influence around them. Are they going into the same class room or separate ones?
That we're not sure of. I want them to be seperated (though, if I end up putting them in the autism class, that might not be possible) but their mother wants them to be in the same class so that they have each other for support. We're going to have a meeting with the principal of their new school before they start and talk that issue over with them and get their opinions.
In terms of number of words and understanding they seem ok. Maybe not much initiating, but it might just be the situation. My mum was telling me that she used to have my two sisters telling her what they'd done at school, but she'd have to ask me, I rarely initiated talking. Their rate and flow seems indistinguishable, but of course again it's difficult to judge on one video.
What about what they talk about? Do they share similar interests to other four year olds you know? I think at four I was fairly typical, I liked cars and lego (do you have that in the USA?), but a few years later I developed my love of history, classical literature (that one's waned a little) and of collecting alphabetical lists of various stuff like fruits, vegetables, counties (Of England) and capital cities. So it might be too early with your daughters to see the differences.
I've posted exerpts of these videos before, but always just the choice bits - never the full length so that you could get a true measure of their language, warts and all. I finally figured out how to reduce the size of the files without just clipping them, so I wanted to post the full length videos so that you could get a feel for where their language is and give me a reality check. I'm too close to the subjects to have an objective view on where their language is - I'm sure you understand. The girls are 4 years, nine months in these videos. They've made a little progress since then, but this is still pretty representative of their ability to converse.
I've been told that they are probably too far along with their language development and behavior to warrant intensive therapies such as ABA - that the cost wouldn't justify the return at this point, basically (not that it wouldn't work, but the return on investment would be hard to justify, and they might just need regular language therapy and social skills training, at this point). Do you agree?
I've also been told that they will be able to do well in a regular-ed kindergarten class by a few professionals, both in and outside the school. Currently, they are slated to attend regular kindergarten this fall, but I'm ambivalent.
Conversely, one professional has told me that a self contained autistic class (with pull-outs for inclusion with typical kids) would be a more appropriate placement. That sounds more "comfortable" for me, but I also wouldn't want to hold them back if they honestly don't need it.
I would like more opinions - where are the girls with their language development? Give me your assessments, based on what you see here. Not fishing for compliments - please give me honest opinions on how delayed/atypical they seem to you and if you agree that they could function in a regular ed kindergarten class and if you think that they are past the point of diminishing returns with intensive therapies (such as ABA).
FWIW - I'm not worried about Kindy academics, as they're slightly advanced in that area - mainly concerned with their ability to comprehend what's going on and interact with the other kids and follow along with what the others are doing. The kindy is centers based, btw, so that does help.
PS - I debated whether or not to post these because I know that there are some of you that have children that are struggling more with language than the girls are, and I know how bad it can feel to watch kids who have greater fluency then your own children - not that the girl's language is 'all that' - but it is functional. In the end, I figure that we're all dealing with the same issues in varying degrees, so I hope you understand that I'm not trying to be cruel, just seeking opinions and answers, like everyone else here.
Anyways, here the are:
lollipop (warning - loud tea pot whistle)
Thanks.
Fred, their language skills sound EXCELLENT to me! They stay on topic for many, many turns.
what about mainstream, with provisional pullout (like T will get) for more intensive skills like reading instruction? I think you should see how they handle a regular classroom environment -- you might be surprised!
They're currently slated for mainstream kindy with pullouts for speach & language and 1/2 hour/day resource teacher time *in class* - to work on social and classroom skills, most likely. They'll have no problems with the academics if they understand what they are supposed to be doing.It seems to me that they have excellent attention span and attendance. I bet they'll do GREAT in Kg!!!
And, frankly, if T does not qualify for ABA (and she is over a year older than the twins), then surely they would not either!
I understand where you are coming from. I'd rather have kept T more protected than she was, in Kg. And at first it was VERY tough on her ... but at the end of the year, she seemed pretty much academically caught up, if not socially. Truly, I bet they'll do great. I am looking forward to hearing about it.
Fred - I watched and listened to all 3 videos you posted and it all sounded very age appropriate to me. How are they when they have to have a conversation with other kids? Do you see more pragmatic issues in that type of situation? My oldest son (almost 10) has always had an advanced vocabulary and no articulation problems. However, to this day he still receives speech services to work on pragmatics. The issue seems more evident when he is interacting with other kids because they don't usually take the time to ask questions, clarify things, or redirect him.
If your daughters will continue to have speech sessions and have a resource teacher available to them in the classroom, I think they will do well. They don't need ABA, and I don't think they should be in a special ed classroom.
Evie's language sounds wonderful. She seems to communicate her thoughts and likes well. I think the part of the towel shows that she doesn't necessarily have to be interested to keep up a conversation on it.
I definitely think Evie is ready for mainstream. I honestly don't think I have enough of a presentation to say anything about Abbie though.
OK I have watched all of the videos and I have NOT read any of the other posts because I want to give you my initial reaction and not be biased by what other posters have said.
I believe that the girls are at an extremely high functioning level and that their speech skills are very good. I have an NT 4 year old daughter in my home, and I would say they are VERY similar to her and she has been tested every six months due to having a sibling with Autism and she is considered advanced for speech skills & vocabulary.
I would advise you NOT to put them in a special school. Again, this is based on videos where they appear to be in their most comfortable home environment so they could be completely different in a social setting. But I would really try the regular ed Kindergarten class, then have them pulled our for therapy sessions. This is what my son does, and he is MUCH more affected with speech and also with making eye contact, drawing, ect. He has made some friends and is doing very well in the regular class.
I wanted to say that I noticed your daughter drew a nearly exact copy of a "Monster house wearing a dress" with shoes on that was in your other daughter's book! I was so suprised - she copied the drawing even though it was at least a foot or two away on the floor and facing another direction! It appeared to be nearly an exact replica of the drawing your other daughter drew! WOW.
Their drawing skills are VERY good compared to my child's. It has taken him years of O.T. to be able to make lines that sort of resemble letters and numbers. While I love everything he draws, it is very simple stick figures with only a few lines in each "drawing". It looks like they are doing a great job - can they write letters and numbers yet?
In my opinion, based on what I know about my own children, NT and ASD, and others children, I would say they are very high functioning. I would not suggest ABA for these girls, but I would suggest speech therapy and perhaps some behavioral therapy. High functioning certainly does not mean "better" or "normal" however, it just means that their goals and needs are going to be much DIFFERENT than a typical classic case Autism, in my opinion.
OK there is my 2 cents, now I'll go read what everyone else has said LOL
Interesting about lollipops. Ever tried them on chewing gum?
I do not like that, as a habit, but I know some people think certain kids NEED it!
As far as focusing on less-pleasant activities ... could be a problem, or not. T had her little chats-between-fingers, initially, when Kg started. And I am sure at times reverted to them later. But she did learn she was supposed to be listening!
ETA: Fred, Tuhina had not even so muc has picked up a pencil when she started Kg! And ... I STILL could not get OT for her, then! She is almost -- ALMOST -- up to your girls' level of drawing, now.
thanks mosesjrsmom and concernedpa - they've really come a long way this year. At 4.0, the couldn't have any kind of conversation - literally could not engage in an exchange through more than one turn. The could make statements and answer questions, but that's about all. I actually think the school's SLP must have done a good job, even though I only ever spoke with her infrequently and supplemented private therapy because I didn't think the school was doing enough. Their goals were social and had to do with maintaining conversations through several turns, and clearly the met the latter goal and probably the former goal, too (they supposedly had been playing with one or two other kids occasionally in their preschool, according to their teacher).
jdecina, the girls do have some summer camps coming up. One is a "sports" camp, so that should be interesting :) We also continue to have a tutor coming over several times/week working with them and bringing them to the pool, especially.
Thanks for all the opinions. It's helped me feel better about the consensus opinion to mainstream them. I'll still have a peak at the TEACCH classroom and discuss options of pull-outs for inclusion, but it sounds like most of you think that they have enough language skills to be able to get by. I wish I could get them aids to help them with social, but the school's not willing to do that (though, we do have the 1/2 hour in-class resource teacher time each day for those types of things).
first - hopefully I'm not just restating what everyone else has been saying!
First off, the girls are doing GREAT! (and they're adorable too!).
As for how their language looks, here's my take:
Abbie's language seems more natural than Evie's. It's more spontaneous,
she engages you more, and her intonation is more typical. Her
pronunciation and voice modulation aren't quite as advanced as Evie's.
She does have some repetitive language. Abbie sounds to me very much
like a typical 4 year old, I'd say she's about 6-9 months delayed, but I'm
not SLP!
Evie's language is more advanced than Abbie's, it sounds like, but her
intonation has that "autistic" sound. It's really hard to describe, it's a sort
of putting the emphasis in the wrong parts, lifting and dropping voice at
the wrong spots, etc., and it's quite possible that anyone who doesn't live
and breathe autism wouldn't pick up on it. I don't know that that's
something that ever goes away when it's there, and I don't know how
you'd teach it without confusing and frustrating. I know a few teens with
Aspergers, who speak the way that Evie does. Evie also took more
prompting, and I noticed commented and interacted spontaneously much
less than Abbie. However, when she did, her language was more varied,
larger vocab, etc., and prononciation was perfect. I'd say Evie is not
language delayed, that it's more the social aspect that she struggles with.
As for school placement, if I was just to go on the videos you've posted,
and if that's how they function, in general, accross environments, then
regular kindergarten should be great, with pullout for services, and some
supports in class.
However, how are they in other settings? Do they orient to other kids?
the teacher? For example, Donny will automatically listen to and respond
to people he knows, like his family, but if a peer or a teacher or other
adult speaks to him, he's oblivious that it's directed at him and he should
respond, EVEN IF THEY USE HIS NAME. Can the girls follow directions?
Will they be able to sit in circle time, move from one station to the next,
answer the teacher's questions, etc.? Do they have sensory issues that
will make a regular, noisy, busy classroom difficult for them?
I certainly think they could do well in a regular class versus a special
class, however, they may need other supports, such as a teaching
assistant, visual schedule and supports, calming area, and so on and so
on. What they will need to be successful depends on much more than
their language. I'd hate to see them just quietly shuffling along through
class, without meaningfully participating, because they lack the social
skills, you know?
Donny'smom - yes, I agree with your sentiment that Abbie tends to sound and act less 'autistic', even despite Evie's greater language fluency. It just goes to show you how autism and congnitive ability really are two seperate entities - Evie scores higher on every cognitive measure, and yet is presenting as the more affected child lately. Abigail used to be much more obviously affected than Evie, but she's made great strides in the past year and has mostly caught up with her ability to communicate, and her overall personality is warmer. Almost everyone who has met them in the past six months or so is very surprised to learn that Abigail has been considered the more affected to this point.
I agree that their voice modulation and intonation is strange - autistic sounding, as you say. They both have that robotic tone to their voice sometimes - not always, but frequently. I think it's when they are using language 'chunks' as opposed to generating spontaneous language from single words. This is how they learned to talk - learning phrases and using phrases in place of words. This is why they say odd things, like Evie, in the drawing video:
"That's a triceratops named Leo".
"triceratops named Leo" is one of these chunks. She would never say, "That's a triceratops" or "that's Leo" (even though we all know who Leo is by now, lol - she'll always use this 'chunk' and when they make long statements comprised ot hese rote chunks is when they sound most flat. Their reliance on phrases and strings of words is lessening with time, so hopefully it will continue to fade out as their ability to generate fluid sentences 'on the fly' increases.
The also adopt that monotone voice when they are perseverating on soemthing. The tend to perseverate on their stuffed animals, and when the do, they sound like a couple of little robots.
Tone and such is not something that's been addressed by the SLP, but I agree, it's something that might stand out for them as they get older if it doesn't fade out as the continue to gain fluency.
As far as other issues that might crop up in a classroom? I'm not worried about sensory issues, as their sensory issues have faded to almost nothing (observe the teapot video - that would have freaked them out two years ago - now it's not problem).
They do have problems orienting towards people in general, but a good teacher will be able to get their attention and keep them on task. Since the kindergarten is centers based, I think that their problems with orienting to people will be manageable. They are beginning to notice other kids more often and will initiate socially (even Evie did a few weeks ago at the OT's office - she had a nice, brief interaction with an NT girl about her age - I wrote about it in a previous post). I think they will require redirection to keep them playing with other kids during less structured time, or they will end up doing their own things - like at recess, they will mostly likely dig around for bugs instead of play with the other kids. I hope to get something written in their IEP to account for this.
My main concerns are melt-downs - they still have them, and when they do, they can be hard to calm down. They usually melt-down when they are frustrated or when the percieve someone is being "mean" to them or "yelling" at them - and the worrying thing is that all you need to do is have a stern tone to your voice and, to them, that is yelling and they may cry and become agitated. Once they are in full melt-down mode, it can take them a good 10-20 minutes to calm down, and they will yell, loudly, the whole time.
According to their preschool teacher, they never did this at school - but she was a late substitute. Their first preschool teacher did have to deal with melt-downs at the beginning of their school year, last year.
That's my main concern. That, and I'm worried that they might not actually learn anything. You see, they already know much of what they will be taught in kindergarten, so they will not learn anything academically, probably, until well into the year. So, since their academics are pretty good, I'd rather have them work on their weaknesses (language, social, behavioral), which is something that (I'd guess), the TEACCH classroom would be more useful - but I guess a good IEP can go a long way towards rectifying that situation.
They do have the resource teacher coming in each day to help smooth things out. They had visual schedules in their preschool, and the teacher felt that they transitioned and participated fine - but again, that was with a low student/teacher ratio and, perhaps, lower expectations and/or greater sympathy than they will find in a regular classroom.
may
not have noticed it with Abbie, because her speech was more
spontaneous,
and shorter (unrehearsed?) phrases. It's almost like, "It's a fill in the
blank
" and she fills it in with "Triceritops named Leo" as a single noun. It's
very minor, just a bit stiff sounding, and given that the girls' speak as well
as
the teens I referred to, it may very well go away with more language.
If their only issues are social/language, then I'd stick them in a
mainstream
class for sure. While they might not be challenged academically, they
WILL
be challenged socially. And they WILL be learning something. Sure, they
know how to do centers, but they don't know how to do centers along
with
20 other kids
. While the other kids will be working on learning their
colors and numbers, your girls will be working on learning how to take
turns, how to respond, how to initiate, and so on, all under the guise of
colors and numbers. It will be excellent practice for them, and, because
of their social delays, I doubt they'll be bored.
However, it's really important they have a teacher who is aware of what
the girls' goals are, and focusses on those. Social goals exist for all
kindergarten kids, but most of them aren't formally taught or evaluated,
because they come pretty naturally to NT kids.
as for the meltdowns, I wouldn't worry - that sounds like most
kindergarten kids, lol. It will be very good practice for them to learn
about "on purpose" versus "accidental". It might be helpful to start
working on social stories this summer over problem solving. Common
causes for Kindergarten freak outs, NT or otherwise, are: sharing,
grabbing, bumping into, name calling, budging in line, and did I mention
sharing?
Fred,
I think you're girls are doing fantastic!!! You must be very proud. As I have said before, my NT daughter is their age and will be entering K in the fall, the girls seem very much like many of her peers. If this is a major concern to you, is it possible to get any kind of 1:1 assistance for the girls in the regualr classroom? At least to help facilitate social interactions?
Have you looked into any weekly day camps. Here, many of the preschools have weekly camps, just 2 hours a day and they are run by the actual teachers - not teenagers. Maybe you could give the girls a trial run accompanied by a therapist (who can report everything to you in detail) to get an idea about how they will do in the fall?
Aidan attends a typical nursery school and is presently in a typical day camp. For him, it has been very beneficial. He is picking up tons of language and his play/social skills are improving dramatically. I think though it depends so very much on the teacher. His teachers are saints and they go above and beyond to make sure he is always included and getting a lot out of everything.
Hi Fred,
I have watched all three videos. The girls are honestly amazing. They seem typical to me. The way they were responding, staying on topic, the language construction, their attention to you,the camera, are all wonderful. Their ability to sit at that table without wondering off or falling off their chairs, that is all wonderful. If they were my girls, mainstream is what I will do. I would just have them get speech to iron out whatever kinks might be left in their language skills. And any other intervention like one on one special instruction in whatever area of weaknesses observed in class. They are well on their way in being self motivated with language and socialization. IMHO they will benefit more from a group of typical role models than to be in a special classroom.
You are doing a fantastic job in motivating, and keeping them interacting and responding to you. Sometimes you cannot get a therapist to do as much as you have done on those videos. Good job.
Concernedpa.
[QUOTE=Donny's mom]Abbie sounds to me very much
like a typical 4 year old, I'd say she's about 6-9 months delayed, but I'm
not SLP!
[/QUOTE]
PS - that's pretty good - they had pragmatic assessments recently (around the same time these videos were shot) and they both tested right around 4.0, all things considered (a lot of spikiness, but it all averaged out to about a 4.0 year old level).
The other thing I'm guessing you noticed about Evie, just occurred to me - she sometimes make statements like she's asking a question:
Me: "What do you want to do today?"
Evie: "I wanna go for a trip?"
Me: "Where?"
Evie "To the museum?"
Interestingly, later in that same video, Evie sounds very natural when I ask her if she wants our tutor to take her to the park and she responds, with a chuckle, "I want her to take us to the museum!". You can pick out examples of odd intonation and very normal sounding intonation at various points. I think they're in a transition period and they have some of both!
In general, they both ask WAY too many questions in leiu of making statements. They used to ask repetetive questions - now, they sometimes ask repetetive questions, but also have a habit of asking questions in the place of making statements.
I think this is because of everyone constantly asking them questions! I've discussed this before on the boards, too - I think a lot of our kids get into this Q&A format and it becomes a habit for them to speak in terms of questions and answers.
LilBoPeep and Nupurb have helped me with their RDI-esque techniques for declarative language, and this habit does seem to be getting better with time, but it still lingers.
Thanks for the great points about learning in the mainstream environment - that's a perspective I hadn't considered :)
Kindy class with supports. Your girls are way too high functioning to be
in an ASD class. Trust me, they would end up being the model for
language! Yes, they do have some pragmatics issues, but boy, you are
definitely on your way here.
My son will be going into a mainstream K class in the Fall, and I'm not the
least bit concerned about how he'll do. I had the luxury of observing him
all last year in a private NT pre-school setting and he did great. He
learned so much from his NT peers, and it was by far one of the best
decisions I made for him. His language isn't quite as developed as your
girls, however, he issues are a bit different. Not sure how to best
describe it other than to say he doesn't seem to use quite as much
"scripted/chunked" phrases, but doesn't have as large of a vocabulary
either.
Nonetheless, based on what I've seen with NT kids this age, they have
issues, too. Trust me, your girls will not stick out like sore thumbs. I
really think they're going to surprise you with how well they do.
fred,
I didn't watch all of the videos - part of the drawing one and most of the museum one. It was very difficult for me to watch the drawing one. Sorry, I'm being very jealous here - my son can't draw a triangle (and he just turned 6). Fine motor skills are his BIG, big issue right now and I have a devil of a time getting him to work with me on those, but it is coming. Anyway, your girls are AMAZING artists and you should be very proud!
I definitely think mainstream. My ds is very high-functioning as well and he was in ECSE this last year. His teacher told me about 2/3 of the way through that that environment was not the best for him. While he learned some things, the best way for him to learn social skills was to actually be around kids that knew them. To have 7 other kids in a class who have to be prompted for each interaction makes everything stiff and not like real life. The autism consultant observed him in both the ECSE classroom and the Head Start classroom. She said the difference at the beginning of the year was night and day. At Head Start, he interacted and played with other kids quite a bit - at ECSE he almost never did. Toward the end of the school year this improved a lot - but he was still doing much better at Head Start (he had no para or special help there at all and there were 18 other kids in the class with one lead teacher and a teaching assistant).
Anyway, like another poster said - your girls WILL be learning social skills and that is SO important. I am getting more nervous as the school year gets closer - and ds will be in all-day kindergarten with no para and totally mainstreamed in a new school in a new town. We shall see how that goes!
Your girls are doing very well. I did notice the plethora of questions as well - probably because ds would do this a lot - he still does some, but nowhere near as much as he used to (thank goodness!). We didn't do anything special but would often tell him that he could ask one more question and then we would be done answering questions about a certain topic. I would also tell him that if he knew something, he could just tell me instead of asking a question he already knew the answer to! He still does this - particularly on rough days - but it is getting better...
You should be very proud of all the work you have done - I think they are doing awesome!
I don't know what I could add to all these astute responses other than to addanother vote for regular Kindergarten!
Also, I wish I could send Jasper over to play at your house.
Jasper never had a speech delay, and your daughters sound very close to
where he is at (age 4 1/2) He has alot of the same language issues as your
girls. Were supposed to start ST for intonation and prosody soon.
Your daughters are lovely, talented, and are developing beautifully!
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