You might find the article "Social Skills Intervention for Adolescents with Autism Spectrum Disorders: A Review of the Experimental Evidence" of interest. It is posted on www.speechandlanguage.com. Unfortunately there is not a wide body of evidence for many of the methods used for social skills training so we SLPs have to do the best we can with what information we have. I totally agree with those who feel that training must occur within context. ASD kids just don't automatically generalize things. I have had good luck teaching specific skills within individual or small group settings then doing a repeat lesson for the entire class (the ASD student included) for high level students. It is true for me that the older the child gets, the more difficult it is to find a teacher willing. For lower level students, a lesson in the class with assistance carrying over the skills during a classroom activity or community outing has been fairily effective. I am unfamiliar with the RDI method mentioned and will have to look up information. Our school doesnt do social skills class..we did the private one for over 2 years but generalizing is the reason I quit it...She did absolutely wonderful in it and it was all play therapy with joint attn. games and theme related classes but she just couldnt or wouldnt transfer the skills over to new kids. It is on me now and we are managing fine and enjoying our first summer off in 4 years! I plan on using RDI once I can get motivated to read more on the techniques:)
Thanks for sharing this article. And here I was feeling sorry for myself because social skills programs pretty much don't exist in Norway... But it will be a challenge to get my son social skills training in his classroom environment, simply because his teachers/aide have no training. It's not easy for them to identify what to work on, and how to work on it. They're more motivated now, though, since they've found what works for his academic training and can "coast" with those methods while experimenting with social training methods.
That said, the meta-analysis study is a little weird. It covers 55 other studies and yet only 147 participants total. That means each study involved an average of just 3 kids! And each of those studies seemed to cover different goals, so to me it felt like comparing apples and oranges. I wonder if there are certain limited goals which can be addressed effectively in a social-skills program (and reinforced in the natural environment), and certain others that cannot.
WOW thanks for posting this, good article. I am on the fence about them. Can someone explain to me how these social skills groups work? I've honestly never experienced/observed one, and I hadn't even heard of them until I visited this board.
Actually, bopeep I have to disagree on this particular group. ALL of the parents were totally dissatisfied with the group. They really weren't talking to the parents about how to get your child to interact - they were mostly talking about helping your child develop language. My son was speaking in complete sentences at age 2 and he (most of the time) communicates very well with me. He doesn't always maintain a back-and-forth conversation with peers, but he often does with me. This group wasn't a whole lot about social skills in my opinion. We got virtually no guidance about how to help our children interact. That money I spent (0 for the class, for babysitting and .00 for the weekly lemonades) could have been spent in a far better way. This wasn't RDI, ABA or anything like it. Other people I have talked with in other areas liked the Hanen method - so perhaps this agency wasn't doing it effectively.
I also feel like I have done enough reading and enough time around EFFECTIVE therapists and teachers to have a pretty good idea as to how to mentor my child. I can always learn more, granted. But this course taught me almost nothing. And, my son didn't try to interact with the other kids at all - I spent most of the time actually trying to keep him in the room and not run out. He is not typically a runner, so this gives you an idea how stressful it was for both of us. He is pretty aware of when people don't "get" him and these people didn't get either of us.
This was in the spring of 2006. He started his summer playgroup again the week after the horrible social skills group ended - so I didn't see the need for him to contine in something that we paid for (the summer playgroup was FREE and 10,000 times better - he actually enjoyed going as well!) and that he hated. He started Head Start in the Fall of 2006 and finished this May. He has made tons of progress in this last year. We actually went to the same place for PT (his PT was fantastic) and he never had issues in that building/room except for that social skills class. In fact, one of the people who had facilitated the social skills group happened to come in to the room one time while he was in PT and they were totally amazed at what a different child he was! There's another thread that was started that a lot of us talked about how some therapies are torture for a child and I FULLY believe this was torture for my ds. So, we stopped...
That being said, I wouldn't dismiss social skills groups outright. I think some kids can learn some skills in some of these groups. Unfortunately, not all of us have a fortune to blow on these groups just to find out! I would LOVE to see a group started that included NT siblings who could be great role models for the other kids. Getting 6-8 kids together who all have severe social deficits is not going to be effective, but getting a few of those kids together with NT peers who are tolerant and understanding of quirks might help greatly!
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/06/070625095342.ht m
The above article says that separate social skills classes tend to be completely ineffective but that social skills taught in school settings are more effective. Well, that certainly makes sense since ALL of US learned our social skills in context with our own peers, mostly in school since that is where most of a child's time is spent. So it stands to reason that out-of-context social skills "classes" are doomed to failure, especially when they are trying to help kids who typically have difficulty in generalizing. Our own autism center, locally, came up with the same info, eventhough they continue to offer autism-specific social skills classes (at great expense, btw). That's because the schools tend to do a poor job, even though they get the best results when they bother to do the job at all. It has LONG made no sense to me to travel out of your own community to go to a specific location outside of the normal world to have 6 to 8 ASD kids sit together and hope that the blind can lead the blind under the direction of an expert and THEN transfer those social skills to a different context with different kids, most of whom will NOT have an ASD. I've seen the BEST results when ASD kids are constantly exposed to natural social situations in their own world under the informed guidance of the natural adult -- parent outside of school, teacher inside of school -- and for those experiences to be in a situation where the child will be exposed to the good social skills of competent peers. Good thing the scientific community is finally catching up.
For those who are RDI fans, I think this bodes well for RDI being used by schools in the future.
The thing that gets me is that I believe ALL kids could benefit from built-in social skills training. That is the only way they will apply it in context!
However ... I know teachers will not be fans of more demands on their time, let alone, more training.
RDI ... and floortime.
In my opinion floortime is golden. I am quickly learning that therapies that take the child's lead are the way to go (at least for Sharlet)Thanks Tzoya. I'm printing this and putting in my "social skills" folder at home. I'm collecting things like this because Anthony's school tried to take social work out of his IEP at the last meeting. I fought and wouldn't let them. He gets a whopping 1/2 hour a month of social work from a social worker who thinks his social skills are just fine
The biggest problem, by far, is that most people, as of now, just do not believe that ASD kids can learn dynamic thinking, or that they can learn to think on their feet socially. This is a pretty radical notion, as sad as that sounds. Most parents are not even remotely aware that their child has this capability and therefor the child is never taught. No attempt is ever made to develop his creative, adaptive, interpretive, participatory abilities.
A few ASD kids get stuck into these b*llsh*t "social skills" classes and when nothing sticks, everyone says, "See, it doesn't work!" Social skills classes just teach static behavior, which is the whole problem! ASD kids need a lot of step-by-step mentoring, when it comes to interacting spontaneously with people, but learn, they definitely can.
It is essential that, if social behaviors are to have any meaning or value, they must be learned on a foundation of emotional connection and reciprocal expression. Think of how we "work" with typically developing kids. From minute one, we are teaching them about emotional connection. We "work" on that for a few years before we expect a typical kid to even remotely understand the concept of manners and protocol. How many parents have urged a three year old to "share nicely!" and how many three year olds get it perfectly? Not many to none! We would never dream of expecting a typical child to understand manners and social niceties before he had at least three, if not four, years of emotional connections (and all of their attendant complexities) under his belt.
Yet we jump into teaching ASD kids the right way to "behave," assuming that their comprehension of and appreciation for social interaction is impossible. I think we all see in our own kids how this simply is not true. We see every day the little ways in which our ASD kids can indeed appreciate and participate in social interaction. We parents need a lot more encouragement and education as to how WE can foster this potential.
For those who are RDI fans, I think this bodes well for RDI being used by schools in the future.
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That would be very cool. If anyone is interested, my son's preschool uses primarily RDI and it is a beautiful thing. Those who are interested can PM me for details.
Oh, and BO, excellent post!!!!
WImomof2, RDI is great with older kids. It takes a while to get the hang of RDI, and I've found one of the most inspiring (and most easily understandable) sources is other parents.
Here is a blog of a family doing RDI with their teenage daughter: (very well organized, great ideas) http://aut2bhomeincarolina.blogspot.com/
Here is a fantastic blogpost about getting started with RDI: http://thismom.blogs.com/this_mom/2006/11/ppp_day_7_getti.ht ml
(Thanks, foxl!)
Has anyone had any success at all with an SS group for a child that hasnt had anyone facilitating peer interaction in the past? I dont think hes getting much of this in school currently.
Thanks for the RDI info littlebopeep and foxl. I'm going to talk to the principal about it. I was suprised when she approached me for ideas. The school has social skills training classes, but they are looking for new ideas, especially for older students.[QUOTE=littlebopeep]
Here is a fantastic blogpost about getting started with RDI: http://thismom.blogs.com/this_mom/2006/11/ppp_day_7_getti.ht ml
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Hey and while you a re at it, go read her MOST RECENT POST! If anything will tel lyou she is on the right track, it will!
I must say though that Adam was in a social skills group when he was younger and it was totally worthless. He had no interest in being social. I think now that he does have a spark of interest it is helping.
I think it depends on the social skills group. My ds was in a "playgroup" administered by our Children's Mental Health. The great thing about the group was that ds was the ONLY one with an autism diagnosis. The other kids had different social issues. Thankfully, there were no aggressive kids either year he was in it. But, it was truly awesome - based on the Incredible Years curriculum. They did fun things - walks in the park, going to Playland at McDonald's, etc. and they always had free time as well (where the case managers went around and helped prompt positive social interactions between the kids. And, last year ds went to Head Start where this same curriculum was implemented in the classroom. I cannot tell you how much progress he made this past year as a result. I SOOOOO wish that every pre-school would implement something similar. It would be beneficial for ALL kids, particularly our kids. And especially kids on the spectrum who haven't been diagnosed yet (i.e. the parents haven't realized yet).
I have also heard horror stories of social skills groups and I have one of my own. We went to a social skills playgroup. It was 0 for 6 weeks (once a week). Also, since parents were supposed to actively participate, I would have to find a sitter for my dd for at least 2 hours each week. This cost me a lot - and nowhere near what some cost, I know! Basically, they had free time at first, then had the parents leave to go upstairs and get a weekly lesson based on the Hanen group social curriculum (I don't know if I spelled that right). Well, it was about social language and was MUCH more about the development of language than about social skills, per se. My ds has plenty of language and so this was mostly meaningless to me. I got a few good pointers and did meet some nice people (always a plus!). Then we would go back down and do an activity with our kids, then snack, then circle time. Then a little free time and it was over. This felt to me like it was more parent-child time than working with the kids on their social skills. I interact with my child JUST FINE and really didn't need to work on that - I needed help in working with him on interacting with others. The therapists were more working on appropriate behavior and interaction between parent and child. I was SOOOO frustrated! I had to bribe ds with a lemonade every session (if he listened and didn't run off from me he would get a lemonade after) because he HATED going. After a while, so did I. Needless to say - we did not continue this!
I have heard of parents paying thousands of dollars out of pocket to have their kids attend social skills groups. None of them felt like there was that much progress - some, but not enough to justify the expense. Insurance didn't cover the groups for a lot of people.
I just hope that people start waking up and realizing that social skills can and should be taught in the classroom. I realize teachers have a lot on their plates and need to teach a lot of material. However, I think if social skills were taught early (pre-K through 1st grade) for a few minutes a day - I think the teachers would find it easier to teach because the rules and expectations would be clear and modeled by peers as well. I don't know, maybe I'm dreaming again....
How about that timing; I just got a call from the office where my ds was[QUOTE=snoopywoman]I have heard of parents paying thousands of dollars out of pocket to have their kids attend social skills groups. None of them felt like there was that much progress - some, but not enough to justify the expense. [/QUOTE]
Firstly, it is fantastic that you found a playgroup/social group that worked for you. There are, for sure, some nice social learning situations out there. My son, also, gets ASD-specific social direction at his preschool, but I don't think this alone is enough to see him through life.
When you think about it, paying to learn a parent led approach, whether it's RDI, Floortime (which is parent led, after a point) or Hanen, makes great economical sense. Typical social mentoring "just comes naturally" to most parents. But ASD social mentoring must be learned by the parent. So you pay someone to teach you. After that, you have all of the gold (knowledge) in your pocket and you are no longer dependent on therapists. Not to mention the fact that since time began, children have been socially mentoring with their parents. An emotional relationship must be happening alongside the mentoring. Otherwise, the lessons are hollow and fleeting.
Plus, when you, the parent, learn about mentoring your ASD child, you feel a great sense of empowerment and peace of mind. Well, this has been so for me. But, really, I hear much the same from most parents who take this route.
[QUOTE=foxl][QUOTE=littlebopeep]
Here is a fantastic blogpost about getting started with RDI: http://thismom.blogs.com/this_mom/2006/11/ppp_day_7_getti.ht ml
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Hey and while you a re at it, go read her MOST RECENT POST! If anything will tell you she is on the right track, it will!
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Wow! Very cool. And check out all of the comments on that blog!
Here's another article on the same study:
Source: http://www.babycenter.com/news/?id=70713002&scid=pcbulle tin:20070716:0:0:0#story
<quote>
School programs for autistic kids found lacking |
NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - School programs intended to improve autistic children's social skills are not delivering results in many cases, a new study suggests.
Autism is a developmental brain disorder that, to varying degrees, impairs a child's ability to communicate, which includes problems with expressing themselves and with interpreting other people's words or body language.
As a result, children with autism have difficulty interacting with others and forming relationships. Interventions aimed at building social skills are considered a vital part of autism therapy.
In a new analysis of 55 previously published studies, however, researchers found that the social-skills programs offered in schools appear only "minimally effective." In general, the programs created little change in the behaviors they hoped to improve.
However, the study authors caution that this does not mean social-skills programs should be abandoned.
"On the contrary, the results indicate that we need to deliver more effective social-skills programming," said lead study author Dr. Scott Bellini, assistant director of Indiana University's Indiana Resource Center for Autism in Bloomington.
The study found, among other things, that most of the programs offered far fewer than the 30-plus hours of instruction that's generally recommended. Furthermore, while the programs had lukewarm results on average, those that were conducted in the classroom or in school playgrounds were more effective than programs that pulled autistic children out of their usual classroom.
These results point to ways to improve existing social-skills programs, according to Bellini and his colleagues.
"We should not stop teaching social skills," Bellini told Reuters Health. "We need to do a better job teaching social skills."
The findings, published in the Journal of Remedial and Special Education, come from a review of studies of school-based social-skills education for children with autism spectrum disorders — a group of conditions that includes autism and milder, related impairments like Asperger syndrome.
Few of the 55 studies examined how well the programs were implemented. Therefore, it's impossible to tell whether the disappointing results reflect problems with the programs themselves or with their execution, the researchers say.
This, according to Bellini, touches on a broader issue: Few school teachers have formal training in teaching social skills, but they're given the job of implementing social-skills programs for students with autism spectrum disorders.
School administrators should do more to help them, according to Bellini. "School districts," he said, "should provide professional development opportunities to educators working with students on the autism spectrum."
<unquote>
Few school teachers have formal training in teaching social skills, but they're given the job of implementing social-skills programs for students with autism spectrum disorders.
School administrators should do more to help them, according to Bellini. "School districts," he said, "should provide professional development opportunities to educators working with students on the autism spectrum." [/QUOTE]
Thanks, NorwayMom.
This could be said for every teacher in every district. Now that so many kids are considered to be on the Spectrum, every teacher will be called upon to work with Spectrum kids, not just let them slip through the cracks. IMO, the money would be best spent educating teachers about autism, not sending ASD kids to these "social skills" classes, which bear little fruit. A caring teacher who understands autism can works wonders with all of the kids.
I want everyone to take a look at this site..... This is a person that teaches social skills and is located in New Jersey. I saw the story on it and missed him when he came to Atlanta. I'm starting a program, "Buddies for Auties", that I am implementing in the school system here and taking in consideration some this person's proven techniques. Please take a look, it seems hopeful!!
Take Care,
Joy Carey INTROPACES(Introducing Parents of Autistic Children
Encouraging Services and support)
Making a difference, one family at a time!
I think it really depends. My 4 yr ds is in a mainstream pre-school all day where he gets his services as well (SEIT, Speech, Play). I also enrolled him in a social skills program on Saturdays - where he was matched with four other children with similar abilities and social challenges. We did two 12-week sessions. There were three therapists facilitating play sessions with them, i.e. dance parties, turn taking, game playing, asking questions, etc. To the kids, it was just play. At any rate, I have to say that my ds's social skills took a huge leap. As a matter of fact, I dropped him off at pre-school yesterday and he ran over to the other little kids yelling "I'm here! I'm here!"
I think being with kids all day is good for him, but ds needed a special, intense setting where he could work on social skills and have fun.
Joyful,
You might be interested in these videos of Jed Baker on ABC Nightline in April. Here is a video clip that shows him at work in his classroom. I do wish my son could attend a class like this -- Baker is so engaging.
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3009687
He was also featured on ABC World News. This video is about bullying.
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3009328
I hope you enjoy the videos.
Adam has been in his group for a few weeks now and is very excited about going. However, like many have said he is having a very hard time tansferring skills to the outside. His brothers said they notice a difference, but he says he can't do it. Sooo, what to do.... Thanks, Norway Mom! The video is on his website.C got a half-hour of social work per week throughout kindergarten. What this typically looked like was C and 2 other kids (other kids not necessarily ASD) doing activities such as playing a board game while the social worker helped them model appropriate language and turn taking behavior. I think it helped, and he was able to generalize the behaviors to other kids/situations.Well, fwiw, i've spent 0 per hour in NY city for a social skills group for my child for the past year. It was pretty useless.
Of course the child/ren behave and learn very nicely how to "behave" and 'act" in THAT room/group, but absolutely DID not carry over to the real world.
Such a waste. I feel very taken.
Getting social skills help IN SCHOOL is much more effective since that is where the skills NEED to be generalized. But there are MANY ways to help social skills without actually NAMING a therapy "social skills" therapy. In my experience, the most effective way to get our kids to have better social skills is for us parents to bring them regularly into the community with typical kids and to learn to intervene appropriately ourselves in order to teach our kids what to do. Inviting classmates over for the afternoon (with or without the other moms) is great. Getting to KNOW the other moms is great, too. Of course, as our kids get older, it gets harder and harder for us to intervene, so starting early is KEY. Social Skills therapists can be very skilled and work well with ASD kids, but social skills group is not the real world and the therapist cannot be at our kids' sides all the time. I actually like the Social Skills group that Abby goes to here in Philly. The group excepts my insurance so I only have to pay a co-pay which is .00. I am sure there are Social Skills groups that might not seem effective. I think it depends on whoever is running it and their intentions and what the goal of the Social Skills group is going to be. At Abby's group it is not about learning how to take turns. It is about teaching these kids how to express themselves and make friends. I know one of my dreams right now is for Abby to come home from daycare and be able to tell a little bit of what she did that day or what was exciting for her or who her friends are. These are some of the things our Social Skills group works on.