L-Carnosine - wonderful results! | Autism PDD
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L-Carnosine - wonderful results!

I've never heard of such a thing and didn't even know that there were supplements that could benefit autistic kids.  I'll definitly have to look into it.  Is it something that your doctor prescribed?

No, I ordered it from Kirkman Lab.  Below is an article about it and also study results that were done:

There is a potential breakthrough in the treatment of autism coming from the Chicago area. 

Eight-year-old Jonathan Sieger is autistic. Jane McDonald, 6, has developmental disorders. Drugs and therapies help their conditions, but they are both showing even more improvement recently by taking a supplement found in health food stores.

I was shocked that we saw so much improvement early on after using it," said Jane's mother, Diane Curtis.  Jonathan's mother expressed similar satisfaction with her son's improvement.  "He's just so much happier. That was our first immediate notice," Maureen Sieger said.  Jonathan and Jane have been taking a synthetic version of a natural protein called l-carnosine. Their pediatric neurologist, Dr. Michael Chez of Lake Bluff, Ill., has recently completed the first study of the substance.  "It affected language, receptive language, eye contact, communication, all of which are things which children with autism have big gaps with," Chez said.

Over an eight-week period, Chez's study showed that carnosine improved behavior and communication by 16 percent. Social interaction improved by 27 percent and, in just four weeks, parents reported an overall improvement that more than doubled through the length of the study.  More and more research shows that the frontal lobes and the temporal lobes in the brain control emotion, epileptic activity, cognitive, expressive speech, and abstract thinking.  Chez said I-carnosine apparently works in the front part of the brain. So far, he said he's used it on about 1,000 children, with a 90 percent success rate.  According to Dr. Chez, children in his study improved in  receptive language, auditory processing, socialization, awareness of surroundings,  fine motor planning and expressive language.  Responses to supplementation were seen 1 to 8 weeks into supplementation.

On some children, the change has been dramatic.  "He runs into gym class. He wants to play tag. He wants to play with the other children and he's really happy to be at school for the first time," Maureen Sieger said.

For autistic children, Doctor Chez finds most beneficial a dosage of 400 mg carnosine in combination with 50-IU Vitamin E and 5 mg zinc twice a day.  The zinc and Vitamin E are included because Dr. Chez believes that the addition of small doses of zinc may augment intracellular L-Carnosine activation, and vitamin E may enhance antioxidant neuro-protective properties of L-Carnosine.   In some children, too high a dose may overstimulate some patient's frontal lobes which can cause increased irritability, hyperactivity or insomnia which was observed already in hyperactive autistic children.  Other than that, there were no side effects.  Children with other disorders such as epilepsy, central processing disorder, or brain injury dosages from 200 to 3000 mg per day based upon Dr. Chez's evaluation. 

More studies will be needed to confirm the results of Chez's study.  

A summary of Dr. Chez' study is as follows:

Double-Blind, placebo-controlled Study of L-carnosine supplementation in children with autistic spectrum disorder

 

Michael G. Chez, M.D., Cathleen P. Buchanan, Ph.D.,

Jamie L. Komen, M.A., Marina Becker, R.N.

 

Objective:  L-Carnosine is an amino acid dipeptide that may enhance frontal lobe function.  We therefore sought to investigate whether L-Carnosine supplementation for children with Autistic Spectrum Disorders (ASD) results in observable, objective changes in language and/or behavior in contrast to placebo. 

Design/Methods:  Thirty-one children (21 M, mean age= 7.45;  range = 3.2-12.5 yrs )meeting inclusion criteria were enrolled in an 8 week blinded trial of either 400 mg BID powdered L-Carnosine or placebo.  Children were assessed at a pediatric neurology clinic with the Childhood Autism Rating Scale (CARS), the Gilliam Autism Rating  Scale (GARS), the Expressive and Receptive One-Word Picture Vocabulary tests (E/ROWPVT), and biweekly parental Clinical Global Impression of Change (CGI), at baseline and 8 week endpoint.

Results:  Children who were on placebo (n=17) did not show statistically significant changes on any of the outcome measures.  After 8 weeks on L-Carnosine, children (n=14) showed statistically significant improvements on the GARS total score, GARS Behavior, Socialization, and Communication subscales, and the ROWPVT (all pís<.05).  EOWPVT and CARS showed trends in improvements, which were supported by parental CGI.

Conclusions:  Oral supplementation with L-Carnosine resulted in demonstrable improvements in autistic behaviors as well as increases in language comprehension that reached statistical significance.  Although the mechanism of action of the amino acid is not well understood, it is believed that it acts to modulate neurotransmission and affect metal ion transfer of zinc and copper in the entorhinal cortex.  This may enhance neurological function or act in a neuroprotective fashion. 

 

no dis, but cubb what's your background.....? give some info on your child..... kinda sound like your phishing.... sorry to doubtful but trolls pan US out a LOT....

k8

Has anyone here tried L-Carnosine?  (not L-CarnoTine)  We started giving my son one tablet mixed with applesauce at every meal about 2 months ago. The results have been unbelievable.  He is so much more aware, he gestured (clapped) for the first time, he climbs up into his high chair and tries to buckle himself in, he tries to help now when I dress him, he seems to understand more, he makes more eye contact, his vocabulary increased dramatically, etc.  In my opinion, it's the best supplement we've ever given him (including cod liver oil, DMG, Nystatin, a probiotic, and a prescription vitamin).

Just wondered if anyone else has tried it.  I'm always on the lookout too for other supplements that might be beneficial.

First of all, I have no idea what "phish" means.

Second of all, why am I assumed to be a troll simply because I post about a supplement that great benefited my son?  Isn't that what this message board is all about - helping people in a similar circumstance?  Are you worried that I'm working for the company that I bought the supplements from?  Don't you think I would have mentioned them in my very first post on the topic and, at the very least, provided a telephone number?  Or maybe you're concerned that I work for the doctor that did the research on the supplement?  If I did, what good would that do him?  He doesn't receive any financial gain when people buy L-Carnosine.

I find your post very sad.  I was thrilled to find this site.  I feel very alone and scared in dealing with my son's autism.  Am I doing the right things for him?  Am I giving him the right supplements?  Are the supplements harmful to him?  How should I handle outsiders?  Etc.  It's nice to know that there are people here going through the same thing who can offer some much-needed advice.  I think it's pathetic that I'm immediately called a troll. 

Chub, it is always good to post a link to the info so the skeptics can at least review it and find other ways of picking it apart.  Here is a link to the abstract of the study on Pubmed

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&a mp;a mp;db=PubMed&list_uids=12585724&dopt=Abstract

I think it is wonderful your child responded to the supplement.  The great thing is that itis an antioxidant and that is something so many children (ASD or not) are lacking now a days. 

 

Definition of Carnosine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnosine

Carnosine (beta-alanyl-L-histidine) is a dipeptide of the amino acids beta-alanine and histidine. It is highly concentrated in muscle and brain tissues.

Studies have shown that it can be used as an effective dietary supplement for people with autism, potentially improving such areas as auditory processing, speech & language skills, motor skills, and socialization. However, supplemental carnosine may increase corticosterone levels, which can explain the hyperactivity sometimes seen in high doses. Researchers in Australia, Britain, and Russia have also shown that carnosine has a number of antioxidant properties that may be beneficial.

Carnosine has been proven to scavenge ROS (radical oxygen species) as well as alpha-beta unsaturated aldehydes formed from peroxidation of cell membrane fatty acids during oxidative stress. It can oppose glycation and it can chelate divalent metal ions.

While a small number of studies have produced evidence of beneficial effects of N-acetyl carnosine in treating cataracts of the eyes, these and other opthamological benefits have not been proven. Britain's Royal College of Opthamologists assert that neither safety nor efficacy have been sufficiently demonstrated to recommend its use as a topical treatment for cataracts.

Typical vegetarian diets are thought to be lacking in carnosine, but whether this has a detrimental effect on vegetarians is controversial.

References

  • Chez MG, Buchanan CP, Aimonovitch MC, Becker M, Schaefer K, Black C, Komen J. (2002)

"Double-blind, placebo-controlled study of L-carnosine supplementation in children with autistic spectrum disorders" J Child Neurol. 2002 Nov;17(11):833-7.

  • Tomonaga S ; Tachibana T ; Takagi T ; Saito ES ; Zhang R ; Denbow DM ; Furuse M (2004)

"Effect of central administration of carnosine and its constituents on behaviors in chicks" Brain Res Bull. 2004; 63(1):75-82 (ISSN 0361-9230) (abstract)

  • PubMed search on "carnosine" and "cataracts"

 

 

Here is the definition of Carnitine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnitine

Carnitine, also known as L-carnitine (levocarnitine) is a quaternary ammonium compound synthesized from the amino acids lysine and methionine primarily in the liver and kidneys [1]. It helps in the consumption and disposal of fat in the body because it is responsible for the transport of fatty acids from the cytosol into the mitochondria. It is often sold as a nutritional supplement. Originally found as a growth factor for mealworms and labeled vitamin Bt.

Natural carnitine is the L-stereoisomer. It can be synthesised within the body from the amino acids lysine or methionine. Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) is essential to the synthesis of carnitine. It has been speculated that during growth or pregnancy the requirement of carnitine could exceed its natural production.

Role in fatty acid metabolism

Carnitine transports long-chain acyl groups from fatty acids into the mitochondrial matrix so they can be oxidized for energy. Fatty acids must be activated before binding to the carnitine molecule to form acyl-carnitine. The free fatty acid in the cytosol is attached with a thioester bond to coenzyme A (CoA). This reaction is catalyzed by the enzyme fatty acyl-CoA synthetase and driven to completion by inorganic pyrophosphatase.

The acyl group on CoA can now be transferred to carnitine and the resulting acyl-carnitine transported into the mitochondrial matrix. This occurs via a series of similar steps:

  1. Acyl-CoA is conjugated to carnitine by carnitine acyltransferase I (palmitoyltransferase) located on the outer mitochondrial membrane
  2. Acyl-carnitine is shuttled inside by a carnitine-acylcarnitine translocase
  3. Acyl-carnitine is converted to acyl-CoA by carnitine acyltransferase II (palmitoyltransferase) located on the inner mitochondrial membrane. The liberated carnitine returns to the cytosol.

Dysfunction of this process leads to the genetic disorders primary carnitine deficiency, carnitine palmitoyltransferase I deficiency, carnitine palmitoyltransferase II deficiency, and carnitine-acylcarnitine translocase deficiency.

It is important to note that carnitine acyltransferase I undergoes allosteric inhibition as a result of malonyl-CoA, an intermediate in fatty acid biosynthesis, in order to prevent futile cycling between beta-oxidation and fatty acid synthesis.

 

little byrd39204.2032175926It's also being discussed here
http://www.autism-pdd.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15421&am p;PN=1


btw
interesting articles 'little byrd'
obviously a big difference between carnosine and carnotine
I went down to my naturopath today
asking about carnosine
and she said
"do you mean carnotine ?"
she had never heard of it

regards
forker
I plan on making an appointment to see my son's neurologist today, so I will let you all know what he has to say about it. He was actually cited in the Chez study, so I think he should be a good source. Thank you to everyone for their responses and please keep them coming.

Great, hasmig - do let us know!  Also, if he does endorse this supplement, maybe you could ask him what specific company and formulation he would recommend. 

[QUOTE=Linda11567]My only concern is dosage. Did what you buy include the E and Zinc? did you talk to a dr at all about dosage? I see he gives a recommended dose but he doesn't say anything about age or weight. A dose for my 4 year old 40 lber shouldn't be the same as someone elses 60 lber. Thats the only thing that holds me back on supplements, how do you know how much to give?[/QUOTE]

I would love to know this too... Thanks!

 I order several things from Kirkman- I am very interested in this!!!

Please post what you find out!!

Cool, I'm going to try this on Cami...so far everything I've read on the internet about this is pretty positive.  Here's a website where they sell it in liquid form.

http://autismcoach.com/Carnosine%20-%20Liquid.htm

I realize they are different. levocarnitine is prescribed by a Dr. But have things in common.

Thanks Cubb for sharing the article. As you wrote this board is a place to exchange information that could be helpful to our kids.

Daddy

Daddy39203.5283333333

Cubb-

I have no idea what being a troll or phishing is either.  Thank you for your post.  I did read the Chez study and I thought it was perfect!  I am thinking of giving it to my 3 year old son.  He is currently in ABA and I havenever tried anything else biomedical, b/c of the poor research designs usually assocaited with them.  The Chez study was perfect though.  Can you tell me more about how you started the Carnosine, doses, etc....???  Thanks

Yeah, looks like a real study.  I haven't heard of this supplement.  Thanks for the info - I'm always looking for things that "can't hurt, might help".

This study's a few years old - anyone else replicated these results?  I have not time to look - calling all googlers!

fred39203.6587962963My only concern is dosage. Did what you buy include the E and Zinc? did you talk to a dr at all about dosage? I see he gives a recommended dose but he doesn't say anything about age or weight. A dose for my 4 year old 40 lber shouldn't be the same as someone elses 60 lber. Thats the only thing that holds me back on supplements, how do you know how much to give?Maybe the Mods should move this thread to the
"Other Treatments" section
where I suppose it properly belongs

I have heard of other using it
but cannot remember offhand
what results there were

regards
forker
Lots of kids with autism have a defeciency in carnitine and take the rx levocarnitine (my son does) or and over the counter brand.  It is on the up and up.  My son also has greats results in awareness and his play skill have increased and for the first time in his life he is sitting at the table and eating with us.   He still remains very affected by autism but those things I mentioned are big things for us.L-Carnosine... a bit different.  Thank you for your reply though
 

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