Loss of lunch privelidges?
| Back to Autism Information >> Next Topic | ||
|
Things have been going pretty good in school but last week my son said he got in trouble. What I got out of him was that he and another little boy in class wernt listening during Library and missed recess and lunch. Since the things my son says isnt always what he means or what actually happened I wrote a note telling her what I heard happened and to clarify it. She wrote back that yes him and another boy were running around and being naughty so she followed thru with a loss of recess so he had a consequence for his actions. She went on to say that she was proud of him because he started to throw a fit but calmed down and followed her to 'the wall' (like a time out) and also that he told me what happened so its great that hes communicating to me his actions. She never said anything about him loosing lunch so it made me think even more that it had happened. She also added that "today" he had been in trouble during music as well but went to the back of the line by himself (their punishment i guess) when he saw her and to please sign and return. I responded that I asked because of him loosing lunch not because of hs loss of recess and that I would like his behavioral log to be sent home everyday (she had stopped sending it home a few weeks ago and I assumed all was going great till now) because its still like pulling teeth to get info from him and then im not sure of it if i do get it but I didnt get any response about his lunch loss just a comment on how he was teary eyed today yet my son actually TOLD me himself that he was crying all day and was crying during PE and hit some boy who 'was being mean to him and racing'. Im assuming the kid won a race and my son hit him but maybe the PE teacher didnt tell his teacher i dont know. I dont like the fact that it seems she avoiding the question instead of just answering it and she is always telling me how great he is because hes communicating things to me which i know is great progress and completely awesome but besides the point at this time. Now long story short, can they do this??? The only thing that i can find that comes close to it is the child loosing the privelidge to eat lunch in the cafeteria or the child loosing the privelidge to eat lunch on school campus but not denying it at all! Anyone? Im pretty upset. VERY upsetting How on earth can they deny him FOOD! I am livid to just hear of this Poor baby Not denied lunch but probably cafeteria with other students...they did this w/ Payne (he likes to get attention) where he would have to eat in the classroom w/o classmates...right? That would be AWFUL if they denied him food...illegal.Illegal to deny him food. Okay if they didn't let him eat with his peers and took recess away. I had my NT son in the office more than out at recess. Taylor--well, I must admit, she has never been punished for her behavior but, then again, she is in an autism classroom. I think that is what they probably did--made him eat lunch away from the other kids and have indoor suspension (what they call it here). Not sure if that is right but, if they punish the other kid, there will be problems with the NT kids' parents if one got punished and the other did not--opens a whole new door to prejudice, if you get what I mean. I would just clarify that it wasn't loss of food, and talk to him yourself--with the mom way of talking about things so he understands what he did was wrong, and how proud you are of him for telling you the truth about it all. God Bless, Kelly They cannot deny him food, but they can take away the privilege of eating in the cafeteria.If you could get him an IEP, I would make sure that they cannot take recess away. That is something our kids need more than anything - a BREAK and physical activity. I have heard kids who have been kept inside for recess in order to finish work - that should NEVER happen. Send the work home or whatever - but do not keep a child on the spectrum inside to finish his work. Also, I would be unhappy about him not being able to go to the cafeteria (if that was the case). Wasn't the cafeteria an issue for him in the beginning of the year? I would think that would more be a REWARD than a discipline as the cafeteria is loud and requires lots of peer interactions. Just my thoughts... They sound like they are taking the easy way out. There can beconsequences for some behaviors, but are they teaching him replacement behavior? Are they helping find words to express himself when he is upset? Sending him to the back of the line doesn't teach him what to do next time, nor does taking away recess. He is only 5 and he needs to be taught, not punished. If he is that upset at school I would call a meeting and discuss what they can do to provide him with positive supports. Also, I'd tell them you want to be informed if he is upset all day. That's ridiculous. I would want to know if this happened to my child. Good luck. They need a positive behavior plan, instead of all that punishment! Here are some resources that might help your case. http://www.fns.usda.gov/tn/Healthy/wellnesspolicygoals_schoo lbased.html - healthy school policy promoted by the USDA, punishment by withholding food or physical activity is not acceptable. http://www.winonadailynews.com/articles/2007/05/27/wi/04w.tx t - case where kids were punished by getting bread and water instead of lunch, for example. It says that this is not acceptable in schools that belong to the National School Lunch Program. http://www.specialeducationmuckraker.com/ABU_GHRAIB_ON_THE_H UDSON.pdf -"Withholding food, water and toilet facilities? These are illegal in New York and can be prosecuted under "endangering the welfare of a child" laws." (I know you're not in New York but other states probably have similar laws). Good luck with everything. Ask for a team meeting with the staff involved and the Principal. Hand them a formal requet for an FBA and an adjustment to your son's BIP (or to put in place a BIP that is implemented universally). Make CERTAIN a copy of the FBA/BIP request gets to the SPED HEAD, too. So if I understand, he didn't lose "LUNCH", he lost the priveledge of being in the cafeteria? If that is the case, it sounds pretty reasonable to me, given the fact that your son was able to control his meltdown and accept his consequences tells me he understood his actions had a consequence. I would agree though, you do need to see his log to be sure of what is happening. tzoya - Her son doesn't have an IEP - so I'm SURE he doesn't have a BIP. According to the school, he doesn't have any kind of diagnosis. Please correct me if I'm wrong, Nikki - but it seems the school has fought any kind of diagnosis, IEP, 504, etc. I would be shocked if they agreed to an FBA or BIP. I still think that not being able to be in the cafeteria might be a reward for him - and may cause him to act out further in order to not go in there. With all the sensory issues going on in there, he may very well get it into his head to do something to avoid going in there - which will end up being acting out. Basically, they need to communicate better with you - having the log come home and you need to start pushing again for a re-eval and IEP. I don't think this situation will get better without it. An FBA and a BIP can be asked for ANY student. This boy has a medical disability. At least a 504 plan can be put in place and THAT can certainly contain a BIP. Start by asking for an FBA. Punishment can work. If it does work and continues to work over time, then that is the correct disciplinary response. However, if the punishment does not mitigate the behavior, a more specialized disciplinary plan -- a BIP -- needs to be put in place. And, as I mentioned, a BIP can be done for any student. Of course, Districts tend to think of the as being just for kids with IEPs or at least 504's, but that is not correct. Of course, my own feeling is that if a child without a disability is in need of a personalized behavior plan, he probably also needs to have the possibility that he does have a disability ruled out. I agree with all the posters:) I wish his teacher hadnt stopped his behavior log..I agree that there has to be consequences but feel that rewarding good behaviors NEEDS to be the biggest component of a behavioral plan. He needs to learn that he receives nothing good for bad behavors and tons of praise and rewards for good ones. Just punishing him constantly with no rewards becomes his reinforcer~he gets alot of attention for being inappropriate and they need to nip this asap before it sets in. I would want a FBA done too. Best of luck Hayley:) This is simply not right. Raise HELL! Punishment is NOT the best reinforcer, either, Shelley is right. Good luck! the only thing I have to say is that, parents of NT kids get mad when they think the kid with dx got away with something. It causes all sorts of issues between the school, parents, etc. Personally, I agree with you guys about the punishment but, I also see what happens when your kid is given different recourse than the other--and the other isn't dx'd, even if there is an issue. I am just a worry wart cuz, well...I had parents say the same thing about my children--they get away with things just cuz they have "disabilities" (I hate that word). What they don't understand is that, the thing done with my child IS a behavioral punishment of sorts, just done in a way that is adjusted to their understanding. However, this sort of thing does aggravate me to no end that they did what they did. NT kids get it--it IS a punishment of sorts, or even a way for them to avoid something they hate--like, not having to participate in something. It reacts differently to our kids--they need the socialization, yet they also need to learn right from wrong in a modified way. Parents of NT kids don't get it and cause more of a stink to the principal, when their NT kid gets home and tells them the other kid (my child) wasnt punished (which, of course they were but in a way they understood). Kinda a catch 22, if you know what I mean--but really, I do agree--I am not disagreeing--just preparing for what some parents feel about Little Johnny being singled out--if ya know what I mean. God Bless, Kelly Thanks everyone for your replies I only have a second to be on right now so ill make it fast till I come back on the board later Norwaymom, Thanks for the links! I havnt checked them out yte but will soon. Fairydust, He lost lunch as in he wasnt able to eat lunch at all, thats what upsets me. Snoopywoman, I was going to pres for the independent eval for IEP but didnt because truthfully he was doing great i think. But his progress report shouold be in within the next 2 weeks so I was going to go from there and if he shows problems in learning at home or whatever. He does have a 504 tho, WHICH i finally got the other day (which means all his other teachers just got thier as well) by threatening to call the head again, I really cant stand this Tzoya, he has a 504 plan already but they are dragging thier butts on doing anything in it like training for all the staff on autism specifically aspergers syndrome, that hasnt happened yet and the school OT was just given his sensory diet to look over alittle while ago. They also did not include a whole other page of notes his teaher took that the autism specialist said to include in the 504 but now is not requesting that paper at all which isnt getting printed up because the teacher computer is broken. He has alot of accomodations and the problems seem to have just started getting like this truthfully but I just thank God my son is verbal otherwise who knows what kind of crap hed be going thru! I will request a fba/bip for him. Normally how long does the problems have to be going on in order for one to be needed? As in kids go thru little spurts of a week or so and get back in thier groove sort of thing and not have needed one, whats the amount of days? He for sure does need a positve behaivoral plan tho. Thanks everyone so much, i guess this was longer than i expected anyway! behavior is interfering with learning, his or others, then the FBA/BIP can be requested. Since they have already used a behavior log that should be all you need to substantiate that it is a concern and must be addressed. Negative behavior only has to occur ONCE for you to be able to ask for an FBA. I would call the Superintendent and meet with him to express your concern that your son was not allowed to eat AT ALL. I SERIOUSLY doubt this was the literal case. It may be that he didn't want to eat unless he was in the cafeteria or that, perhaps, he misconstrued what the punishment was supposed to be about and DIDN'T eat because he THOUGHT he was not allowed to. NO CHILD CAN BE DEPRIVED OF FOOD AS A PUNISHMENT! Get to the bottom of this. And get IN WRITING what actually happened. Ive been searching EVERYWHERE and all I can find is denying kids lunch who are in the school lunch programs (which is illegal) but nothing about denying packed lunch (I pack his lunches daily) but im sure its just as illegal. O and Norway mom that last link was horrible about punishment, i mean strangeling??? I asked his teacher again and she AGAIN completely ignored my question (that makes 3 times!) and just went on to say how he got upset when he had to stay in again for recess but 'shook it off' and got to work, completed it, ate snack and got to go to recess and how hes come such a long way since the beginning of the year in behavior, confidence, time on task and work completion and added she also said she knows its good to have things on paper (concerning me always asking questions about everything and tellingher I just want to get to the bottom of things). But still nothing~ I think she afriad to put it in writing so it doesnt screw up the school. Ive called an advocate (the phone kind) but on monday im going to have to call a meeting and request the fba. I did want it on paper tho because otherwise it could possibly never had even been admitted to knowing this school. The day before was perfect he was mr. sunshine and complete everything put in front of him and everything so its always up and down but they cant go around taking lunch away that will only make things worse AND I cant possibly fathom what my son could have even been DOING that caused him to get lunch taken away; that no one even bothered to tell me about? O another thing she keeps avoiding is about my son saying he hit another kid in PE which is aggravating me as well, maybe it i didnt care my kid was going around hitting kids i wouldnt be asking her so maybe i should encourage him to hit some more? O and another thing, his behavior log has things like a couple meltdowns (and just one of them huge.. that i know of), being teary eyed, wanting to throw a fit but didnt (because he didnt get his way with water fountain, not wanting to work on his numbers etc.), needed quite time, once not wanting to go to music and staying with his teacher, kids accidently bumping into him or running into him making him mad, needed some cool down time, grumpy at lunch, then the times he got in trouble for messing around during music and that he can usually shake things off (as in not go into full meltdown mode) Hes tolerating things and getting over them which i do believe so I never thought i needed to request an FBA and to me these things are not huge meltdowns all day or day long and when the behavior log stopped coming home i guess i thought the best and hes usually always cheery at the end of the day when i pick him up even if there were problems dring the day and i believe he does bounce back... until he gets home and unleashes all his fury i seriously cannot stand him after school! Its like he reverts back to his tantrumy, unsatisfied sad self he used to be a year ago from 3ish to 6 in the evening needs quiet time or wants to stay with his teacher rather than go to music are his coping methods, and it seems he communicated what he wanted without full-on meltdowns. Also, grumpy, teary eyed? He is entitled to his emotions. I'm just saying if they are viewing this as all negative then it seems they are too focused on behavior and not creating a positive environment. Hopefully the FBA will help and because they will understand the reason for these behaviors and that they are not 'bad'. I am fairly confident that he cannot be denied food. In any case, pulling him out of lunch and recess when his issues seem to be without appropriate socialization seems short sighted. How is he supposed to improve if he is denied the opportunity to interact with others? I don't like the way the school district is dragging its feet and not really going out of their way to cooperate. Have you thought about getting an advocate? Can you ask if the school has a policy on withholding food as a punishment? You might try talking to the school nurse about it, since this is a health issue. Did you find any child welfare laws for your state?
Put in writing that you want an FBA amd BIP. Put in writing that you understand that your son was deprived of the "privelege" of eating on (date). I would address this letter to the Superintendent and copy everyone you can think of. I would ask, in that letter, for the Board of Education's policy on corporal punishment since the physical pain of skipping a meal can certainly be considered corporal punishment. I would make a BIG STINK about getting an IEP, using this incident as evidence that your child cannot "access an education" and "make progress" unless they give him an IEP (He already has an official disability of record). If you cannot fix this THIS WEEK by yourself, I'd contact an advocate. Yes, advocates can be expensive but losing an education is tragic. Most of us have discretionary money that we can choose to use for advocacy help as opposed to the other things we use this money for. Unless you are down to worrying about making the mortgage/rent and putting food on your table, you can afford an advocate. And, once the school district knows you have an advocate to help, they will probably clean up their act so that you WON'T need an advocate in the future. This situation has gone on for too long for ANY advice you get here to be of much help to you since, clearly, the District is ignorning you. IMHO, it's time for bigger guns. Ok so what the school and his teacher has said is that they did not deny him lunch and would never do that and the result was being pulled out and sent to the office which I didnt get anything written to me about this. Im not sure where the heck he got not being able to eat from, but they seemed very suprised that he was communicating with me (hello!) I still dont totally believe them tho, i cant fathom them seriously doing that esp his teacher who is super nice but still the whole thing smelled fishy the way it was dragged out just for a simple explanation! And then here is my son who is constantly telling me things that are not true (even at home so i know for a fact) he fabricates and sometimes does even believe things have happened that totally have not (his paranoia kicking in mostly or , yes, his imagination). I dont ever know what to believe from him anymore? I have noticed that everyday after school I do my usual coaxing and bribing him to tell me things about school which he absolutely hates and Ive noticed he tells me things just to shut me up so Ive stopped pressing so hard but it sucks cuz how do i know esp. when his behavior log had been forgotten to be sent home. I didnt find any laws concerning lunch and my state, but what i did find made me think it was def. illegal. One of the first people I talked to was the school nurse and she said they do not practice that at all and then transfered me to someone else when i told her what my son had said. Im not sure how they view his behavior log (it goes back and forth and i have to sign it), they actually stopped doing it and we were having a good time in school till he brough up the lunch thing and him being punished for not listening and acting naughty. I also think alot of the things are just his normal emotions and also steming from his paranoia of thinking people are doing things mean on purpose. Judging from his report card i dont think they are bothered by his behavior at all just keeping tabs i guess, because he got satisfactory in all areas (including interacting with others!) there. I dont have any evidence tho concerning this since they are saying this never happened at all. All I have evidence of is me asking all these things that have happened (little things) and turns out my son has 'made it up' or 'misinterpreted it' which they would use big time. I feel so dumb always bringing things up and sometimes my son admitting that its not true later! I pretty much dont even ask him what he did afterschool because i dont even know what to believe! Well of course i still ask so he can practice and get better but I dont know what to believe and I thought kids with autism couldnt lie? Not the case with my son it seems, However, I do believe they are going to make themselves (the school) seem perfect in every way then i feel bad for always b*tching about something when my son absolutely HATES coming home after school which is what he tells me during meltdown after meltdown in the afternoons! Otherwise his behavior is decent in school! I was thinking about requesting an IEP because his report card doesnt look good to me (except for his behavior which is alll good!) but lots of people are telling me him not meeting the standards are normal in a way since its just the first semester? He is always finding rhyming words, making his own patterns etc. at home so i know hes picking things up but ? I guess thas a totally diff thread tho! Also I am definately finished negotioating by myself if I do request an eval. I will not go by myself! I am going to bring an advocate with me from the beginning, ive already talked to my husband about it and ya they are expensive but wont be too bad esp. if I use them mostly for meetings/evals and such, it will be worth it and there is a groupl here I am looking into that does some advocacy otherwise all the big guns are in phoenix which im thinking would probably hike the price up
I am VERY glad you will be insisting on an evaluation for an IEP. Once THEIR evaluations come in, ask for IEE's for ALL of them. PUt in writing that you want an FBA to be one of the evaluations. I'd step back and look at the BIG picture, not at this one incident or any other single incident. It's clear from your posts that your child is having behavioral difficulties that are interfering. He has a disability. It is up to the schools to give him help in overcoming the behavioral difficulties that are interfering with his education. If his IQ is adequate (it is, from former posts) and his grades are not great (according to his report card) and he has behaviors that are interfering, then he needs an IEP. The IEP is for kids with disabilities who disabilities are interfering with their education. And his ASD-related behavioral issues ARE interfering. Definitely get an advocate. BTW, once you request the evaluation, he is protected under the Discipline portion of the law. Ask for a copy of your state's regulations regarding disciiplining the disabled. Also, most states have laws that REQUIRE that WORKERS be giving a lunch period after 4 hours. I'm SURE that cannot apply less to children. Nikki, did you see the thread about Pathological Demand Avoidance? You might find it interesting. http://www.autism-pdd.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28950&am p;PN=1
|
||
|
Copyright Autism-PDD.net
|
I dont understand I just wish he would show this side to the school and be an angel for me!