discipline after meltdownsCole doesn't really meltdown in a big way, just maybe cry and repeatedly ask for the activity he cannot have. But if he is wailing over something like getting to watch a DVD, I will say things like "we do not cry over TV"...say "I feel angry or I feel sad." He is 8 now and crying over not getting the DVD he wants is not age-appropriate. Before I sound too harsh to you, please know that he can and does tell us about his emotions, and if he sees me cry, like twice a year, he'll come over and ask if I'm sad. We are fine with him crying over disappointments, but not TV. Yes, it IS important to him, but we are trying to instill that it is JUST a movie. If he and his brother are arguing over which DVD to watch, I give them two chances with redirection to work it out. I also warn that if THEY don't work it out, the TV will go off. And then I do turn it off, so they both lose the argument. So far so good. I don't discipline after a meltdown. Katy usually feels bad enough as it is. In fact, I will put her in my lap and rock her for as long as she will allow me to. When we're done I have a happy, calm child. We'll talk about the meltdown, why it happened, and why it was wrong to say or do what she said or did. Occasionally, if it was REALLY bad, I'll put her in time out for 15 min or so. It really just depends on the severity of the meltdown and if she was physically injurious to herself or me, or if she said mean things, etc.This is my Question do you discipline after a melt down. I don't ,he seams to be unaware and unable to sensor him self during a meltdown.He may call me names or say very mean and nasty things,but he doesn't mean it and is always apologetic and sad afterword. When he melts down it is usually to decompress after a very bad day,He cant help it. Should he have consequences for his actions? Of course he never gets what ever he is melting down about ,Usually a change in routine,ex..tonight he didn't get to drive his bike after dinner ,DH and I both have colds and didn't feel like going out. Linda No, I do not discipline after a meltdown. My dd also feels sad after one. Ithink it is very hard on them. During a meltdown I use few or no words. I encourage her to take a break and she has learned to do this for herself without an enforced time-out. I think the best thing you can do later is keep showing/talking about different ways to show he is upset. Social stories are also great for help with perspective taking. You could write one like 'When we get sick', and describe how no one feels like doing anything when they are sick, when we feel all better, then we can do things outside, etc. I don't discipline, but if he is having a hard time with it I will tell him to go to his room until he's calm. After I also tell him it's okay to be upset, but he cannot call me names or say bad words. And I'll remind him of words he can use instead. Beccaposie- It is interesting to me that your son is always apologetic afterwards. My friend, who's son has PDD and I aways thought of as more severe than my daughter (she is very HF), is also very sorry afterwards, and my daughter is not in any way - does not even seem to have a concept of how her behavior has affected anyone. I think this trait alone is BIG in your son and I dont think discipline is appropriate with a TRUE meltdown. But I do think talking about it after the storm (something as of yet that has been like talking to a brick wall with my daughter, but I still do it hoping at some point my words will get thru) is very important and if you have a child that can talk about it with you, you may be able to come up with some preventative strategies together. You may want to read the book "The Explosive Child". It was helpful in my understanding of WHY my daughter meltsdown, but as of yet trying to "collaborate" with her in finding solutions to isssues has been impossible. LeAnn -- as you always acknowledge, your are fortunate that your child is able to manage himself. What you describe are not meltdowns but age appropriate (tho undesirable) scuffles. Those ought to be managed as you do -- with discipline in the sense of guidance and using natural consequences. YOu are pushing your two children to cooperate, which is a best form of social skill. I want to mention, for the parents who read this and whose children are truly melting down, that out of control behavior cannot be managed. It has to be lived through and WE, the adults, need to figure out better ways to set things up in the future so meltdowns are less likely to occur. As a parent who has lived through true meltdowns, I know this is not always easy.We used 1-2-3- magic (book available on amazon) to sucessfully extinguish hitting but our son was 3. I think at age 2, even for NT kids, the recommended approach for any inappropriate behavior is redirection. Meltdown aside, I'm not sure of any "discipline" technique that is very effective with a 2 year old, even an NT one. The answer to whether we discipline after meltdown depends on the situation. If my son has a meltdown because he is frustrated with homework, we let it run it's course and then move forward. Even if he did inappropriate behavior (throwing things, inappropriate language) during he meltdown, we don't punish for that. Some thing when he has a meltdown during soccer practice. However, sometimes the meltdown itself is triggered by discipline (i.e. he throws a toy, we give him a time out, he has a meltdown because of the timeout). In that case, we do not give him a pass on the discipline because of the meltdown. I may sit with him during the time out to scratch his back and help him regulate, but he still has to complete the time out once he is calmed down. We also use a sticker chart / positive reinforcement, but again, I don't think I could have made that work at age 2, for either of my kids. Ahh meltdowns...what a glorious reaffirming part of the day that proves I have an ASD son. Lately my DS has been making such improvements it makes me wonder at times if we got it all wrong with the dx. Then he has a meltdown. For my DS we do not punish usually, he likes to have his head rubbed or his back, so during a meltdown I try and calm him down (and be hands on containing him) by rubbing his head and back. He mostly meltdowns out of changes with his "object routine", I'm not sure how else to describe it, he doesn't seem to mind changing his routine as of what we are doing when- as long as you give him a little heads up beforehand (as little as 5 mins) but if you mess up what is his idea of "order" with objects or toys, he cannot handle it. Also if someone touches him that he wasn't prepared for, meltdown-city. We used to try and hurry up and "fix" whatever set him off- but after reading posts on here from adults with ASD, we stopped doing that. Now if he hurts one of us/his brother during a meltdown- he has to sit for a few mins after, and give kisses to whoever he hurt. I know he can't control it, but his brother is 2 and tends to copy everything he does, so when someone gets hurt- he more then my DS needs to see that there are consquences. Just out of curiousity has anyone here seen/experienced a "steriod"fit? My one brother who was very very sickly, was on high amts of steriods for many years (yes it was dangerous, but it was either that or die, and they didn't figure he would live anyway- of course now at 21, he has pretty bad stomach problems as well as arthritis due to the tons of steriods.) Anyway, when he was little, he would go into "rage" mode that we called steriod fits...it was insane, he is quite a number of years younger then me, and trust me losing his temper is not in his normal personality, but my older brother, parents and I all carrried bruises for years from dealing with his fits. Whenever I get frustrated about meltdowns, I just remember that- as strange as it seems- they were MUCH MUCH MUCH worse then a typical meltdown. Mostly because all of his fits were of rage and they were extremely violent- and he often got weapons, trust me a 4 year old with a metal bat can be quite dangerous- plus he would get in such a state of rage, he could flip furniture etc. It was scary and hard to believe was possible given his size. We have disciplined in meltdowns. Different methods have to be used for different children of mine. For one child, classic asd, non verbal, merely carrying her to the corner and holding her there (in time out) really helped, she knew, no matter what, as long as she was acting like an animal- totally inapproriate and screaming, etc, she would not be with the family. This child LONGS to be with the family and being separated is a hard consequence for her. It did take about 2 weeks of carrying her over there and holding her there before she put 2+2 together and now, if she starts (I see it on her face) I can ask her "S, would you like to go to time out or would you like to calm down in mamas lap?", 99.9% of the time she can climb in my lap now and let me rub her head and calm down. I do believe the Bible about this issue has words that are so helpful to live our lives and I do believe spanking, when done in a loving way of showing a consequence for disobedience, is a very loving and good way of discipline which shows them the world follows a form of structure with authority that we are expected to live within wether natural consequences or legal consequences. The same way that we get a ticket for speeding, or get sick from eating junk food, God has shown a way to give a consequence for disobedience to parents. When followed gently and lovingly I believe it helps raise up well adjusted members of society. (I also talk to the old folks on this one! I've never met one that disagreed!) we dont tell him off after a melt down, i dont think he can help it i bite my tounge through it ignore them the best i can and when he finally comes to me i try to teach him to breath to calm down and tell him its ok to feel mad/sad/angry and give him cuddles My dd doesn't really have meltdowns, she has more like "shut-downs", except at times in busy places, etc. but even then, I don't believe they are anywhere near on the level of what some of you have to deal with.Either way, though, I would think that most of you can tell the difference between "I'm going to throw a fit until I get what I want" -- and -- "I'm completely beyond control of my actions". I've thought about what I think I might do if my dd does start having true meltdowns as she gets older (sort of planning in advance I guess). I just hope that I could tell the difference between a tantrum (which I believe warrants punishment) and a meltdown (which I believe doesn't). For now, I'm just grateful that I don't have to make that call. Zach is 7 and although his Meltdowns are fewer now ,they are harder to Handel,For this one he got away on me and went in the park behind our house ,the neighbours came out to see what was going on and when they seen it was Zach just went back in ,(I Love my Neighbours),I don't try to touch him or Talk to him during the meltdown. In a meltdown he calls me a Jerk and Says "you Idiot",a lot but it is not always directed at me,sometime it is just scripting. As he tries to calm down he is angry at himself and says he is a bad kid,and why did God make him like this,He hates his meltdowns ,It makes me so sad . If i punished him it would just set him off again,and anyone who lives through meltdowns knows ,you don't ever want to do that!!!. Linda I don't punish for aggressive actions or language during a meltdown. Some kids don't even remember what happened during a meltdown, so that makes it even more pointless to punish.
Depends on the circumstances whether there is a punishment. If it is a true meltdown, where I can see it is becuase she is overwhelmed and is unable to cope, and the trigger is not the cause of it...then I will weather through it, and calm her down and soothe her before anything else. Afterwards, like some of the others on here, my daughter is apologetic, but we do discuss it, what happened and what she can do differently next time she feels like exploding, and she is usually grounded for a day to reinforce it...becuase I feel like I have to take control of these now, if I don't - at 15 or 16, a meltdown could have way more serious consequences if she doesn't grasp how to control herself now. She is almost as tall as I am (she is 4'2 at 7 years old, I am 5'2), and the last thing I want is to deal with an angry teenager twice my size who has never been disciplined and learned respect for her mother! If it is tantrum because she isn't getting her way, or something she wants, darned right she gets the consequences! Might sound harsh, but later in life, if she figures she can throw a fit and get her way, she will wind up in bigger trouble, potentially with the law etc... I am probably not going to be popular here but, I have used spanking AS LAST RESORT and, when I KNOW Taylor is quite aware of what she is doing and why. She will purposely aggravate Colin. She knows what will aggravate him, and will go over to JUST HIM and do it. There are 3 strikes--1 and 2 are easy ones. Three, hit the road cuz I am on my way. Now, meltdowns that are autistic meltdowns (and she shows the difference), like noises or just because she was overwhelmed that day at school, or the bus had the fan on..etc...those I deal with differently. I don't beat my children but I do believe in a spanking as LAST RESORT and by situation and observation. Not saying anyone should do this. It's just how I keep control in a house of 5 kids, who can ALL be NT some times, if you know what I mean. God Bless, Kelly Doesn't sound like you are spanking for an autism related tantrum or meltdown, so don't sweat anybody disliking your approach. Both my kids get the occasional spanking as well - for Cole, maybe up to twice year....Jack, maybe three or four times a year. But it is for dangerous behavior, or in the instance of Jack's repeated refusals to do as he is told (he is gifted and quite the debater). If and when they get one, I will sigh loudly and clearly & briefly explain what they did and what is going to happen. I have never spanked out of anger! Its really more psychological warfare in that they are told what is coming, they have to come over & pull down their britches, bend over my knee, move their hands. Then I slowly count to 3..right after three, I give one very stinging slap on the buttocks with my bare hand. Then, pants up and time out. I make sure to treat my sons with respect and show regret that I have no choice but to use this method to teach them life lessons. However, I do not apologize to them! The whole dramatic build up is the punishment - not the single slap! At any rate, because I count to three before the fated whack, when they are wandering off from me/the dinner table/not listening, i will loudly and slowly count to three. They ALWAYS have ceased and desisted on the negative behavior by the time I get to three! Its not the same as the book Kristy uses, but 1-2-3 IS magic at our house. Sorry to digress, but I too am the occasional spanker. Okay, I admit it..my name is Kelly and I am a 2 1/2, 2/3/4 person. lol There is one child here that totally defies every rule of physics known to man--what that means, I don't know but I will tell ya, he can find a nerve where I didn't know there was one. He's my NT child with rebellism. Man! He just loves to push everyone's buttons--especially Taylor's which..will cause her to go into meltdown..Ryan rarely makes it to 3.. Taylor knows--she will come into the room after she has taken the remote away or pushed Colin off the chair to gain access to the computer. When he comes in crying, she comes right behind him and puts her head down on my shoulder. of course, she then goes right back to whacking him. She has been forced to sit down on the couch--where she will play the "mom, I wont do it again, I promise" routine with those big Dora-like eyes. I let her up, and WHACK--right over the head with Colin and the remote--She then goes to her room, not the safe room cuz, it isn't meltdown--it is pure, sibling rivalry. How NORMAL is that? lol Then, she is allowed up, only to go over and whack him over the head again, only this time, even harder! That's it. Spanking time..just a tap on the butt but man, she hates it. She rarely goes back to do it again. I think I spanked Molly once, in 16 years. Sean, very rarely. Taylor, on occassion. Colin, once...Ryan..I lost count at 232. My Grandmother (she raised me) always said, I would have one JUST LIKE ME, that was rebellious and would make up for what I put her through..she is right! Ryan is that one! lol And I am much nicer than the discipline I got. She used a metal spatula on bare butt. To this very day, I won't put a spatula in a drawer, but in a basket on the counter. Just the sound of the drawer opening with that in there makes me shiver! lol God Bless, Kelly [QUOTE=NorwayMom]I don't punish for aggressive actions or language during a meltdown. Some kids don't even remember what happened during a meltdown, so that makes it even more pointless to punish.
[/QUOTE] So true. Alot of times I'll tell Katy during her meltdown, that I bet she can't even remember what got her so upset in the first place. Some little thing just flips the switch and off she goes and before she knows it, it's all out of control and she doesn't even know why, or remember what happened when it's over. Thanks again, NorwayMom. I can usually see the signs he will meltdown at any moment (face tenses, fists clench, teeth grind) but usually by that point, he has passed the point of no return and I can only limit the damage of the storm. I wish I knew what will set him off so I can stop him before he gets to this point. I keep a chart of what he has done just prior to a meltdown, and what we were all doing as a family, just prior, and frankly, I can see nothing that jumps at me. Nothing unusual to get stress building, I keep a fairly low voice around the children, no noticeable noise, etc. I try my best not to use the word "No" in front of him (this sets him off every time!) I try not to serve the same meal twice in a row as this sets him off too (hard to do this without having a mountain of left-overs in the ice box!) I will try to keep an even more keen eye from now. I wish sunshine would come back ... meltdowns are much less in the summer. Thanks again. Claire Thanks for the tip on Vicks, Shy's Mom. I had no idea it could be used that way. Claire Claire -- The best way I know of to prevent meltdowns is to minimize stress (perhaps especially sensory stress) and to catch signs of tension before it turns into a meltdown. Easier said than done of course. If anyone needs help to uncover their children's sensory issues, here's a good checklist: http://www.sensory-processing-disorder.com/sensory-processin g-disorder-checklist.html If anyone's looking for online resources about meltdowns, the links are here: http://www.autism-pdd.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17134&am p;KW=meltdown+resources I like the image you paint Norway Mom. Sometimes it feels like I'm the one drowning and in a panic, and need to calm down until I can come up with a good strategy on how to deal with the situation at hand. So I step back and let her at it while I think (sometimes -unless I flail in the waters and try to stay afloat). Only trouble with trying to step back, while I do that and my husbad is around he wonders why I'm not doing something and he steps in and takes over. That makes me angrier and I go off, either "off" or I leave the scene and let him take over. That confuses dd even more OR it makes her happy that she has caused this confusion! I know we have to come to some kind of happy medium about how to handle situations like this so it won't seem that dd is in control. We have a couple of weekends alone and will be dealing with these problems. We finally got respite care! Foxl recently posted a link on Pathological Demand Avoidance, and those kids misbehaviors were characterized as a "panic attack." I thought that rang true. In meltdown state, my kids are overwhelmed by cumulative demands and sensory input, basically "drowning." A drowning person is apt to panic. When we panic, we don't made good choices. We come up with a strategy -- usually fight or flight -- and we can't easily come up with an alternative strategy until we've calmed down.
This has been very educational for me. I can't say I haven't disciplined after a melt down, I think mostly because out of MY frustration on not being able to help her. But everyone has helped me here. I want to change. I have mostly used time out chair and I have seen her get more upset by using that. Lately she has been throwing things when she gets overloaded, or she will say things like, I'm going to break your glasses, Or I'm going to throw your plants and break all the pictures off the walls. Sometimes she says she's going to make me sit on the time out chair. Oh, I think if we used bad words in our house or if she knew any (I'm sure it's only a matter of time) she would use them as well. All directed towards me. But when it's over she will come to me and say she's sorry and hug me and give me a kiss. So I see what you all are saying. The other day I was upset over something, not to do with her, but she came to me, put her hand on my back and asked me why I was so sad and said she loved me and hugged me and kissed me. She had never done that before. She is becoming more intuned with the feeling of others, on occasion. I was spanked constantly as a child and was in fear of my mom so I dont spank my kids..I am pretty tolerant but have done a swat on the behind for shock affect at least 2x a year after major warnings and downright disrespect... The thing that works the very best is putting down the boundaries, and warnings and then a time out..no attention other than laying down the rules and then walk off...she has learned not to manipulate and she gets the time to self regulate herself. I tell her I would be happy to engage her when she is calm..but will not listen to her if she is screaming or throwing a fit. I grit my teeth alot too. Yesterday I taped her tantrum and threatened to show her teacher...I was trying to get across to her that her behavior at home has to be the same as at school..where of course she is a perfect angel. I deleted it when she calmed down. Not sure if this is correct but it sure got her thinking about her actions. Once she has completely calmed down and open to talking..then I let her know her screaming is not acceptable and to use her words and tell me what is wrong and I will help her. ETA: I remember perfectly having to go outside and get a switch off a bush..and it better be a big one or you would have to go back again. Then the removing of all ALL the leaves in a single SWIPE before really getting it! OUCH! I still feel the stings on my behind just thinking back on it. The belt was worse...my mama had a dad that was an old time Baptist preacher and grandmas, aunts, moms friends all had a okay to whip you if you were not respectful or throwing a fit! If I was born now and the discipline was like it was I would of been put in foster care and taken away my parents. They would spank right in the front yard, store..no fear whatsoever. I vowed to be totally opposite of them..and am. it was a big reason why my parents divorced. I was only five but I think all kids have a long-lasting effect from it. I think a lot of people who experience that kind of childhood vow not to do it, but they end up being like their parents because they don't find alternatives. So kudos to you for having the courage to do so. I've been looking at books like 'Playful Parenting' and 'Connection Parenting' to help build my relationship with Sarah. Haven't decided which to order but they are on Amazon if you want to check them out. Ok, sorry to hijack but it's still about discipline, right? ' The only thing I do is make him go to his room to chill out if he's getting too out of hand. I don't want him to feel punished for his emotions. I just don't think he can help it at this point. I found punishing him for the violence during a freak out made the freak outs even worse. I took away time outs and just hold his hands and say "not ok" to him and he's about 90% better at that. I think un related consequences make things worse, best let him learn from it in a natural consequence kind of way. If he has empathy he'll feel sad for hurting your feelings. I do think that's enough.
I would never use spanking with a child in a true meltdown,I don't think it works for one thing, and I don't know how you would teach Im bigger so I am aloud to hit you ,But you cant hit others. Linda Indeed Kelly! I do think things are different today then even in my day. I was fortunate, NEVER was I hit with a belt or anything like that, typically I would be confined to sitting on the couch/chair, put in room, no outside, no sega and if at my worst I usually got smacked for mouthing off at mom and eather spanked or even kicked in my rear by dad. Definatly, sounds like you had it a bit rougher then I did in that area! And I had it a little rougher in that area compaired to many kids these days. Their is just more awairness, more understanding, and so the ways my parents did things would not really be the best in many situations, but I applaud them they had very little to work with as far as understanding and had to do SOOO much improvising just even being born in the early to mid 1980's is really just soo different then the way things are today in so many ways, and its not just my parents ya know?I just wanted to say to the others that use spanking at times that I agree. I have never hit in anger, but with some things as a last resort, a pop on the bottom does the trick. Normally I use this for dangerous behavior, for example- we have outlet safety covers to childproof the house, Ewan has a knack at pulling them off- then he will proceed to stick things in the outlets- for that he gets a pop on the bottom, because we have tried about a million other things, and that is the only thing that gets his attention and gets him to stop. He also will take "toy" screwdrivers and real ones if he manages to get his hands on one and will remove the outlet face plates and light switches from the walls- this is also a pop on the bottom after a 1-2-3 count punishment, mostly because he could get REALLY hurt doing stuff like that. Its a delicate balance- and I think the real key is never hit because it is a release of your anger and frustration. Boy thats a tough 1. Ok ya as a kid I was punished quite a bit eather for acting out or tantruming or what today they call meltdown. I know when I was about 6-7-8 ish I usually just ended up in my room for a bit to cool off. But after 8 years old my parents changed their tactics so to speak. I was getting a little older and could not be going around acting out like that. They were a bit more forcefull from here on till the teen years I would get spanked, slapped if I mouthed off, and loose Sega Genisis privlages, outside privlagtes which was the worst. My parents didnt know at the time the kind of stuff you guys know today obviously but it really would have been good, at least I think, if they could have maby explained themselfs a bit more calmly, their anger made me think my little sis had an unfair advantage in their eyes that made me feel she was the 'favorite' and sure enough it set the scene for years of pretty serious sibling rivalry and very shaky relationship with mom and dad. Indeed, someday your kids will go off into the real world, and at some point I think anyways a line must be drawn and they gotta know negative behavor carries consiquences, I just wish mom and dad knew enough to do things a bit differently, they were too quick to punish and not quick enough to explain or even try to help. I guess they could not have known back then as they thought autism was largly bahavoral issue because I was 'smart and able.' We all know better now a bit. Indeed, in the teen years I grew up alot and calmed down, still to this day as an adult I do have some issues with managing those feelings, you know when you are overwelmed and have to learn to deal with it approriatly. Out in the real world I cant be melting down in public if I miss my exit, or car breaks down, day gets shot by unexpected things that come up ect... I gotta walk away, take a deep breath before I feel overwelmed and stratagize a bit, all stuff your kids will have to learn to, tho they are all pretty young so.... it may be a bit unforetunatly for you. Spanking, in my opinion is still an excellent method of reinforcing right and wrong. If more parents disciplined their children, and yes, even spanked, we wouldn't have so much youth crime. I am a firm believer in loving discipline and teaching solidly the rules of right and wrong. In my home, Autism is NOT an excuse to avoid being disciplined adn taught right from wrong. There is a HUGE difference between abuse and discipline, and our society these days seems to have lost sight of that in this "let the child do what they want" world. Problem is, when that child who has never recieved discipline and consequences for their actions/behaviours in the home grows up and moves out, they don't have the tools or understanding of right and wrong to realize that not everyone in society is going to sit back and smile and think it's cute or ok when they do something wrong - and the consequences in the real world will be a lot more traumatic for a young adult who has never experienced having to face consequences for their actions. How can a young adult be expected to understand their behaviours/actions are unacceptable if they have never been taught that? Anyway, might not be popular, but just my own personal opinion...don't want to offend anyone! You know I used to punish during a melt down. I didn't understand the nature of his melt downs and treated them the same as when he was simply misbehaving. Now I don't punish during or after a meltdown. I use no or few words and, if at home, direct him to his room to calm down. T is high functioning so, depending on the situation, I may talk to him about something afterward. Like how it makes me sad when he screams at me. He tends to feel bad afterward and wants to reconnect. He is quite affectionate with me. Writing this all out, I just realized he really doesn't have meltdowns very often anymore. What a nice thing to realize! Woods, I do think our days of discipline and today are two different things. It was expected and allowed back then. I remember my friends having to go out to a tree, and pick their own switch. Others would wait for their parent/grandparent to go to the BELT rack and start unbuckling their pants, knowing what was next. All I needed to hear was that utility draw open and I knew I was doomed. My grandmother was proud of the discipline she used. After she would swat me, hard with the metal spatula (which had holes in it for drainage, so I had round welts on my bottom), she would show off her work to her sister, when we went to visit--it wasnt that she was a loving grandmother--she saved my life and was very much loving--she believed in the SPARE THE ROD, SPOIL THE CHILD theory from the bible==and would show my bottom as a way to show how bad I was and why she did it. (I think there may have been guilt but this way, she could show why she did what she felt she had to do). This is why I am cautious--I remember how it was, 40 years ago, and how it is now. I would NEVER do that to my child. It takes a lot for me to spank--as I said, I do the 1-2-3 method. In most cases, 3 never happens. I have friends that didn't believe in spanking. In a calm, low voice they would say, NO NO. One of my friends--when her kid came to my house, I cringed. He would swing from light fixtures, interrupt us completely and be running from room to room, causing all sorts of havoc. And no, he had nothing wrong with him but bratism. When my kids went places, pre-autism--I could go in knowing they would sit, enjoy and not get into one thing. I am not patting myself on the back here but saying that, kids learn what is right and wrong, and it is up to us to enforce what is acceptible and what is not, in behavior. Taylor knows right from wrong. I am so proud of her for that. Colin also does and will do something to aggravate Taylor, just so she gets into trouble. *I am giggling here*. One thing that makes me giggle is that, for a long time, I thought autism would always be part of it, and there was nothing I could do. It feels so good to see GOOD, OLD FASHIONED SIBLING RIVALRY pop up, instead of it always be something stemming from autism. I separate them, and will do the 1-2-3 thing with them..and they understand it VERY WELL. When I get to 2, Taylor will look at me when I say, "what comes next", and tap herself on the bottom. She gets it! lol Anyway, I didn't want to start a debate here. Some states, it is illegal to spank--which I think is ridiculous since spanking is not beating, unless it is like when I was a kid--now THAT was beating. God Bless, Kelly if he staring to get upset from not geting his way then you can give him a verble waring .like if you keep this up you will not get to riode your bike at all .if he throwing a fit from not geting hids way then yes he shouldf have a conqcince .if it from sencorey overload or something iunexprecpted that not in control then no .inever got my way by crying if my mom told me i had to do something an i stard to cry she get more mad .some of my other friends with kids ion the asd do same thing in the real world you fdont get to have a meltdown becuse you cant get yuour way an it teaching him to cope one of myu friend tyell her son if he start to throw a fit to go to his romm an do it becuse no one want to watch it uilsy now he will stop .i dont understand why some parent think thery cant displine there child with autism you have to rember .that your klids are kids first and autism second so not every thing they do is from the autism hafe the time it have being a kid,an i no some who are severe but can be out with family he lean long time ago who was in charge in the house it wasnt himI do not punish Justin for meltdowns, however if an object is thrown at me, say a dvd..it becomes mine for a while.I bring it out days later usually after he asks for a surprise or a new distraction is needed. When he has a meltdown it is best for me and the aides to give him space,calm words, and if he is in his room, shut the door. wait a minute and go back in to the "battle".. I am always looking for the tiggers and always trying to avoid them, but that does not always work.So I can handle two meltdowns after that I am having my own meltdown complete with the ugly cry. Sorry I do not mean to make light of meltdowns, they are awful to watch and hear,(that is an understatement)..But sometimes if you don't laugh you cry, and sometimes when you find yourself laughing so hard...I think you are really crying..does that make sense? May I jump into this thread with a meltdown-related question? (I'll just assume you just all gave me permission to do so I know my boys are quite a bit older than most children mentioned on this board but maybe some of you have come across an article somewhere dealing with adults and meltdowns? My oldest son has never really had meltdowns until about 18 months ago (this would put him around age 20 then) when he started, completely out of the blue, to throw these "fits of rage", over the sllghtest little triggers (like a fan being turned on in the room, or a light being turned off). He had always shown a fairly good degree of control over change in the past (we have moved houses without any major meltdowns, I can move/rearrange furniture in the house wihtout any major tantrums, etc.) but suddenly, his "off/on switch" just got so much more sensitive and meltdowns started occurring, pretty well on a daily basis. We then started walking on eggshells around him for fear of a meltdown. What worries me the most, is that he is an adult, with adult-sized limbs, and when he does get into meltdown mode, he tends to shake violently (either his hands, like when you try to shake off a hand which has fallen asleep but he does this at such incredible speed I keep thinking he will break a bone in his fingers!) or he twists his head very sharply to one side in a "frozen pose" type while uttering "Tourette's type statements" totally out of the blue, not obscenities but one or two words, totally unconnected to what he is melting about and much louder than his usual "whisper voice". He will also bounce up and down very hard (some furniture shakes around him) and I keep fearing he will break a bone in his leg while landing hard on our wood floor. Do any of you have to deal with the fear they can hurt themselves during a meltdown? I don't discipline during or after his meltdowns but I do stay with him throughout, rubbing his back and not using a lot of verbal distractions ... I just stay with him, gently rubbing his back and holding his hand, trying to calm him down and prevent him from hurting himself (last night, I managed to gradually move/lead him to his own bed while rubbing his back, and he eventually got into bed and laid down but still took 3 hours to fall asleep - I stayed with him until his breathing was back to normal) Any of you ever dealt with this type of adult meltdown and if so, how do you manage so they don't hurt themselves? (I'm already looking into alternative diets for him to see if this will help at all) Thanks for reading all of this. I know a lot of my questions don't really apply to most of you because of the age of my children so I appreciate you taking the time to read my posts anyway. Claire Claire -- Could the change in behavior be something neurological? Maybe even Tourettes? In any case, I do have a resource for meltdowns in adults -- some helpful videos clips about preventing and handling meltdowns in a developmentally disabled adult. You can view them here: http://www.attainmentcompany.com/xcart/product.php?productid =16205&cat=302&page=1 I thought their chart was really helpful, showing escalating behavior and the appropriate response: Appropriate behavior - You should reinforce it. Signs of tension - You need to respond, or escalation will continue. The video mentioned the following common signs: Changed expression, less eye contact, tense voice, muttering. Emotional outburst - You should help diffuse it. Physical outburst - Your main focus is to protect. The video lists these steps you can take: decrease/stop talk, request help, maintain a safe position (distance), be a neutral presence, safeguard others, remove hazards, and talk to contain. Recovery - You should talk it out. The rest of my meltdown resources are here. Even thought they're not specifically about adults, you might find something helpful. But I think the technique your using is great. http://www.autism-pdd.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17134&am p;KW=meltdown+resources Good luck with everything. Claire, I have a safe room--it's just a small room with nothing in it but a futon with thick mattress, a glider rocker and some of taylor's toys. It also has something for music (a karaoke--cuz she loves the microphone). I have the doorknob locking from the outside. The window has jammers on it so, she can't do any harm to herself. What she does is, comes in and rolls around the futon while she screams, then gets on the glider rocker as she is settling--turning on the karaoke and a cd while she is doing all this--within about 15 minutes, I hear just soft sounds from her as she finds her BIG EYED DOLLS (she loves those kind, like Dora) and starts to relax a bit. Once I hear that, the door is unlocked and opened--and she has the choice of coming out or continuing to calm down. She usually waits a few minutes and then, comes out and puts her head on my shoulder or arm in an "I am sorry mom..don't know why I did that" type of way. I know not everyone has a separate room (this room was way too small as a bedroom), so maybe you can make his bedroom a safe room as well?
God Bless, Kelly Thanks, Kelly and NorwayMom. Kelly, I have a rather safe house all around as I have two boys with ASD diagnosis so anything breakable was put away a long long time ago. Their bedrooms are just about the safest places they can be during those meltdowns, with safe fabrics on their beds, no sharp corners anywhere, soft stuffed animals only, very well locked windows, etc. Helps keep the possibilities of injuries down to a minimum. I have tried soft music playing during their meltdowns and shortly after de-escalating from them and it seems to agitate them back up so stayed away from it. In non-meltdown times, they both love to listen to classical music though ... go figure!! Your list of resources is amazing, NorwayMom. I loved that video series by Attainment Co. I may purchase it to show people around here (who keep thinking that a tantrum and a meltdown are the same) I will try and keep a closer eye on possible health changes in him too. I know we've had all a cold recently so maybe he has had to deal with headaches and this has escalated the meltdowns. So difficult to keep track of everything when they are non-verbal or have very limited verbal skills anyway ... almost like being a detective! He is independent enough to look after certain things (like getting his own bandages if he cuts himself etc. so this is rather difficult to follow him around and keep notes on what he is doing!) For example, when he feels like he's coming down with a cold, he goes and gets the Vicks Vapor-Rub and applies it to his chest before bed all by himself, same with eye drops if his eyes are red ... I have not seen him take headache tablets though as we keep all those types of bottles locked at all times. At least, it seems to show on those lists that I am doing the right thing for the moment ... now if I could just find a list which points out how to stop them all together ... (I'm not asking for much, am I??) Thanks again for the replies. Claire Just a hint: try putting the Vicks on the bottom of the feet. sometimes right under the nose or on the chest is too strong, such as I found for my dd. But it sure works wonders on the bottom of her feet, then I put a pair of socks on her or in the winter just put her sleepers on and she breathes easy all night long, I even use this method for myself as my husband hates the smell if I put it on my chest. works wonders all night!I have not ever disciplined during a meltdown but I almost always have to afterwards because the majority of Sheila's "meltdowns" are actually horrible tantrums from not getting her way. She is never sorry afterwards and lately has been saying things like "I break you bones" and grits her teeth. I honestly am at my wits end on how to handle this but I understand your confusion on the-to discipline or not issue.Thanks again, NorwayMom for the fabulous ideas. I have suspected SAD as well, nothing much I can do about this a we live in Canada and seasons do change here, as does the amount of sunlight in our days, but I can at least predict and plan for when the meltdowns will happen a bit better. We have a fairly good quality air purifier in the sleeping area to help with the windows being closed for 6 months of the year and I find this has helped quite a bit too. As for his clothes, he always picks his own season-appropriate clothes (he definitely has his favorites which he would wear everyday if I allowed!!) Never noticed any signs of allergies but I can not tell as far as headaches go. That is another possibility. And our routines definitely change in autumn as we live on a farm and summer days are mostly spent outside compared to our school days now (we homeschool so 7 hours per day are spent teaching) Thanks for the reminders to look for the less obvious reasons for these meltdowns, NorwayMom. And Shy's Mom, I have never noticed the full moon having an effect on meltdowns but they very well could ... they seem to affect animals quite a bit so it would make sense. Thanks again for the tips and suggestions. Claire They do have lights that they say affect SAD, it may be worth checking out. We are looking at them for one of our children who seems to go into a wierd thing throughout the winter months or gray days.Claire -- Here are some things that might make him more meltdown when summer is over. You've probably considered them already, but just in case: - sensory issues due to different clothes - transition to wearing different clothes - less physical activity - Seasonal Affective Disorder - allergy or headaches from less ventilation indoors (windows closed) - mold allergy from autumn leaves - different daily routine for him - different daily routine for other family members Good luck figuring it out.
Does anyone notice more meltdowns or more aggressive behavior when there is a full moon? It seems dd is more atuned to the change each month. My husband works at a correctional center and he sure notices it in the inmate's behavior! I've also noticed more behavior issues now that the weather has turned cooler. I asked a preK teacher at our church and she noticed in her class also, we think it is SAD. The change of seasons has a lot to do with it, the longer nights and shorter days, less daylight. We had the same problems in the spring around the time we had to set the clocks ahead, longer days and shorter nights. Maybe we should move closer to the equater? Would we notice a change so much there? Or we will just have to work with them and until they adjust, find ways to occupy their minds and hands. I have found one on one time with her works wonders, she craves my attention, but I don't always have the time to spend with her like that and that is when she goes off on me. I do believe she needs to learn to find activities to occupy her time apart from me. I feel guilty - she is in PreK in the AM for 2 1/2 hours then comes home and we play together and have lunch then at 1:00 she lays down for a nap. She still sleeps for about 3 hours (just turned 5 years old) I usually get her up around 3:30 and we do a quiet activity for a while then she helps me do some light cleaning and helps get supper on. After supper she helps daddy do whatever. So she gets a lot of attention, it's when she doesn't that she goes off. I do encourage alone time in her room to play with dolls, once in a while she can watch a video, or we read books or she "reads" to her dolls, she is allowed to play a game on the computer, etc. Has anyone heard of www.poisenrouge.com it's a great, safe place for kids of any age to roam around and play
I'm sorry the place to go is www.poissonrouge.com Claire -- You mentioned him using eye drops. Eye irritation is my oldest son's main allergy reaction, while my youngest gets it mostly in his lungs. I react pretty strongly during harvest season, because there's so many particles thrown into the air during the process (we live in a commuter town surrounded by small farms). My kids also get frustrated during the change of seasons because the sun isn't a reliable predictor about when to get up and go to bed, but this is more a problem in the summer.
They also have a new VICKS that goes into a vaporizer. I used this with Taylor and between the steam, and the vicks, it helped a lot. I am a vicks addict--I put it on my nose, chest and pillow. I grew up in the VICKS generation--including the cough syrup that, I think equaled a shot of tequila back then in alcohol content. That might explain a lot about me. Colin just started SCREAMING meltdowns==only when Taylor is home Respite has spoiled both of them..Colin has remote to tv by himself and computer access, and Taylor has her independence. Now, Colin is mad when he has to share and takes a total screaming fit, jumps up and down, stomps his feet and comes in here, giving me evil looks. Taylor--I can tell right away when one is about to hit--I have a half second to react and many times, I dont get there in time. Man, she is such a woman--quick to respond and stubborn! lol God Bless, Kelly |
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This dont work in tantrum mode. :P
