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Any Asperger kids nevr get potty trained?

Have you ever heard of any kids with high functioning autism or aspergers staying in diapers forever or till a ridiculously older age? My friend just wrote to me on email and was telling me how her 2 yr old son asked to go to the potty and used it the other day and it made me really depressed because my son will be 5 at the end of this month and he still poops in his pullups with no end in sight right now. He is very high functioning, very verbal, high iq, has responded to wilbarger protocol (wears clothes now etc), can control his bladder/bowels and pees in the toilet but yet he wont poop and isnt bothered by playing dinosaurs right next to it on the floor! I dont know why he wont go anymore. Is there a possibility that he will just stay like this forever has anyone heard of this before? Hes going to have to enter school still in diapers. I think also why im depressed after reading that is because my friend made a comment a year ago jokinly if he was in depends yet and if they make diapers big enough for him and that was like a year ago (and before he had any dx). She was just joking but now im being bothered she said her son asked to go and tried his hardest to poop and ended up peeing and hes only almost 2.5 yrs.

ETA: Im very happy that my friends (actually shes my sister in law and hes my nephew since im married to her brother, and weve been best friends since forever) son is going to the potty of course, i have to add that in since i sound like such an old grump.

143hayden39614.5471412037

I don't personally know any kids with Aspergers who are still in diapers.

My youngest son's diagnosis is PDD-NOS.  I was able to get him trained the summer after he turned 5 years-old.  He did not like being bare bottomed, so his underware and pants were his reward for using the toilet.  It was very motivating for him.  He did have some accidents on the floor which he was responsible for cleaning up.  He understood that potty and poop belong in the toilet.  He was trained within 2-3 days and hasn't had and accident since.

We had MANY failed attempts at training before this.  He was ready at age 5, and was trained by the start of Kindergarten.

Just keep working on it.  I think summer time is a good time to try training.  There are less clothes to contend with, and no school schedule to factor in.

Good Luck!

WIMomOf239614.5543402778He'll get it, try the naked approach my clothes or diaper and see if he can get movitated with that approach. Alex who just turned 5 has medical issues with his bowels and sensory issues that have made training impossible. My almost 4 y/o nt son isn't trained and he's been interested just ready. So I have 4 boys currently diapers all under 6 btw! Alex's daddy39614.5617939815Boy, I wish I had my now 11 yr old clean up after himself when he was 4....we wouldn't have had the 2-3 yr long contipation episodes....I was dealing with him having BMs early in the am when sleeping...I was cleaning him up (I'm such a control freak)...In Janary, he had to go to the hospital for behavioral issues and the first morning he had a morning BM in his pull-up, the staff told him to clean himself up and now he uses the toilet every day...

He also has bacteria in the gut which caused his constipation, so now he drinks Kombucha (fermented chinese tea) and that helps to clear up his gut!!!

Have you checked out his possible gut issues???...There is a possibility that it may be more than just behavior!!!



My best friend's AS son didn't fully potty train until six.

My son isn't AS, just standard ASD,  but he is still not "#2" trained. He will pee in the potty and rarely if ever has an accident, but as for poop, he still goes in his pants, then takes it out, puts it in the toilet, flushes, and then washes his hands...Don't ask me.

Thanks everyone!

Wimomof2, My sons actually a little nudist (rather was before the wilbarger protocol) but now wears clothes but dosnt care too much for them to have it be a motivator. I did some research on it and let me tell u I came across some freaky website about people with diaper fetishes (still alittle traumatized ick) and supposedly alot of them were self diagnosed aspies, i know kinda off topic sorry! Congrats on the quick transition to underwear! 

Naked approach dosnt work he just poops all over my house aaah! Alex daddy, wow! Thats awesome you can do that, good luck with the upcomming potty training I hope Alex can soon overcome these hurdles, And congrats on the new baby!

Mydearcolin, I try make him cleaning it up and he protest alittle but does it carefully but it dosnt deter him from doing it again. lol thats cute at least he washes his hands after!

 

 

Nikki,

There have been many threads on potty training and I know I have written a couple of extensive ones. You may want to do a search here.

I know I should just stop on the subject - but I think this is one more thing to consider when thinking about whether you should send him to kindergarten or not. If he is still in Pull-ups, the kids may make fun of him. If not the kindergarteners, the older kids might. I think you said that you wouldn't be able to get any services for him either? So he wouldn't have pull-outs or access to the ASD room or an IEP. Most mainstream kindergarten teachers are usually not accustomed to a child who is pooping in pull-ups. I'm not saying this to be mean - it's just a fact. This might become a big issue in school.

My ds was difficult to train - he trained the night before he turned 4. He had a few accidents after that and he is still not consistently dry at night (he just turned 7). Good luck on this - I hope it gets better soon!

We didnt really start trying to potty train Sarah till she was 5 years old...she just wasnt ready before that age...

Sarah took a SOLID year and it was CLEARLY behaviorally like tzoya stated...I had ABA therapist work on it every single day doing a potty program and changing it every 2 weeks because Sarah had no desire or motavation to do it. We used all the following to inspire & bribe her to no avail:

 

  • Potty schedule every 15-20 minutes~rewarding whether successful or not.
  • Daily schedule;dress, eat breakfast, potty, ABA, play, potty, snack..ect..
  • Sticker reward poster for either urine/BM 
  • Treasure Box with lock in bathroom for visual effect..filled with tons of goodies
  • TV with video player/playstation in b/room she could play but only after successful potty #1 or #2~This was right in front of toilet.
  • Poster with Velcro rewards such as: If I go Pee Pee I get <elmo vid> velcro pic and If I go Poo Poo I get < to go to park> velcro pic...we had assorted velcro pic that she could choose so that she was motivated....
  • I had a box of books/toys...bubbles....
  • Stayed all day long in bathroom with her till she had a success...she had one but never again.
  • We did the "only panties" thing with no prompts...and she just held it all day long till she had an accident.

We worked on it for an entire year until I was just exhausted and finally I gave up literally...she had all the skills and understanding of going...she understood being "wet/dry" and I knew she was adversive to our demands so I just decided I was going to stop for awhile and gather a second wind another day to start it up again...and within a day she just went on her on and has been doing it ever since...I still prompt her if I notice she is holding it over 4-5 hours but she hasnt had any accidents at all.

I dont know why of ALL the things we had to teach Sarah....this was the absolute hardest thing but I believe 'WE" made it that way. Once we left it up to her she did it perfectly so I think if you just teach him the steps and give him the visuals and some rewards..maybe a nice poster of a picture schedule to remind him...he may surprise you & since it's summer it is the perfect time to put him in simple cotton shorts he can pull up and down easily. Good luck:)  

 

 

                                                             

Naked worked for us ... that, and a trip to a new place (Guatemala).  It took lots of practice and time, but we got there, and she was SO PROUD, when we did.

I believe there is a window before 2, and if you miss it, it IS gonna take a longer time.

T was finally trained at 3 and 11 months.  It took a lot of time, a lot of patience, and out-and-out BRIBES (her favorite video).   I was surprised she acted so proud, like she had wanted it all along.

Connor was 4 1/2.  I was convinced he was going to go to college in diapers  We took the pull-ups away.  He was potty trained for peeing at the age of 3, but he would only poop in the pull-ups.  We stripped him naked, hid the pull-ups, and waited for him to hit critical mass.  He begged for a pull-up, and I took him to the toilet and told him I would stay with him and help him.  And he sat down and did his business, just like that!  I never used pull-ups with my daughter, and we did the same thing when she didn't want to poop in the toilet (she was 3).  She decided to be defiant, and pooped on her bedroom floor.  I handed her a wipe and made her clean it up.  That was enough to convince her it was easier to just go in the toilet!

First of all I just want to say I'm sorry your friend decided to share that info.  I don't get why friends do that when they know our kids.  I don't think that's very cool at all.   She can brag about it to someone else imo. 

I know of one asperger kid who was pee trained but went #2 in pants all the time until just past kindy. 

I agree the no clothes on trick does not work.  we did that will dd and she would just poop on the carpet everywhere like it was no big deal.  I know each kid is different.  for dd once we got her constipation taken care of and she knew how to pull up and down her pants like a pro that is when she would go into the bathroom and go.  I put rewards (she loved sea animals at the time) in the bathroom up high (I taped them on the wall) so she could see the motivation reward but not have it until she went poop on the potty.  All the other tricks in the book did not work for us.

 

 

Haven't caught up on posts, but had a thought. Clearly, this is not about not understanding...it's behavioral.  Behaviors respond to BIPs.  Since you recently purchased a HIGHLY motivating piece of equipment -- a dirt bike -- I'd set it up so that you tell him that he will get to use his dirt bike as SOON as he poops in the potty. Then let him.  The dirt bike can ONLY be used right after he poops.  Something this motivating might make the difference.  Good luck.

Our son was "ready" at 4. He KNEW the deal.  He chose not to cooperate. We had the help of an excellent special ed teacher who had a lot of success in training kids. She told us to just take him out of diapers and let him go to school in underpants. We did. We did that for about 3 months. He NEVER wet or soiled his pants in school, but as soon as he got home he insisted on putting on his diapers. He still refused to us the toilet, but was VERY uncomfortable. No matter how long he held it, he NEVER had an accident because I would let him go into diapers in order to go.  I just could not force him to hold it any longer. His longest "hold" was 17 hours!   AND he would NEVER poop until his diaper was on. In school, he would not even enter the bathroom, but he held it.

His teacher recommended going back into diapers and waiting. I took her advice. Then, in the spring of that year (about 4 months later) I decided that HE could choose to not use the toilet. But he could not make me buy diapers. So I stopped. I put him in underpants 24/7 with NO possibilty of putting any on -- there were none in the house. Of course, he eventually wet himself. Because of his sensory issues, he HATED that. Before the weekend was over, he was 100% trained.  Sometimes sensory issues can work FOR you. But I KNOW it took 24/7 of no diapers for it to work with my son.

Here is a link that MAY help clarify:

http://asa.confex.com/asa/2007/techprogram/S2565.HTM

It sounds to me like they are trying to differentiate the two - pediatric bipolar disorder and Asperger's. Not to try to lump them together and move Asperger's into mood disorders. It doesn't belong there, in my opinion.

My son is 11 and still not toilet trained!!!  Funny that just this afternoon I was cleaning out his dresser drawers and I counted 78, yes 78 pairs of underware!!  What a psycho mom - I guess I just kept buying them constantly in the hopes that he would be trained - never give up, right?

We have tried every single suggestion written on this thread and more.  I can remember bringing a pillow & blanket in the bathroom for me to take a nap while he was on the toilet (sometimes 8 hours).  Its so crazy because ds knows exactly what he's supposed to do, is no longer afraid of toilet, etc., just doesn't care. I now want to check out the site that Hayden mentioned about Diaper Fetish - maybe that's it?

I haven't looked at Norway Mom's links yet, but the only thing I really think would work is either putting something in the diaper that would hurt/burn when he peed - but I don't know what, or screaming and yelling at him when diaper is soiled/wet.  Both things I guess would be considered abuse, but the only thing that motivates him is fear (even in school) - just like kids in the olden days.  Guess I'm looking for some type of justification to "lose it" with him that his teachers & therapists can't legally give me.

Any other suggestions on this would be greatly appreciated - even if really strange.  (BTW he is moderate functioning and has 100% receptive language, but no expressive at all, attends Special Ed school.)

Casey -- I am sorry you are having this extreme difficulty. But Hayden's case is different.  He has a very high functioning form of Asperger Syndrome and he has complete expressive language.  I believe your son's situation is different.  What does the school do to help?  What potty goals are in his IEP?  Have they put Parent Training into the IEP?  Has your son had a complete physical -- perhaps through a urologist? 

If you think that a negative approach is all that will work and everyone's tried all the positive approaches, you can try the suggestion Ivar Lovass (the father of ABA) gives in his ME Book. However, at age 11, your son is large enough that you will need a big man to help you.  The routine goes like this.  You put your son on the toilet.  You set a timer for 20 minutes and sit there with him.  If he releases anything into the toilet, he gets a candy and he can leave. If, by the time the timer dings, he does not, you pick him up and put him in the COLD shower.  Then he goes back on the toilet for 20 minutes. This routine gets repeated all day if necessary.  It's called aversive training.  Some ABA programs still used aversives, but you have to sign for them (this includes smacking with a ruler, pepper on the tongue and lots of other types of corporal punishment) and many, many states do not legally allow this, but some do under some circumstances.  Seek out the advice of an advocate from your state.  Your son faces a poor quality of life (as you know) if he cannot be toilet trained. 

But I stand by my original statement that I have never, ever seen or heard of a child with Asperger Syndrome never being potty trained.

 

PS -- I am NOT endorsing Aversives.  However, I believe parents need to get all the information they can and then the parent (the person who knows the child best and loves the child most) needs to make a decision based on those facts and their intimate knowledge of their child.  I firmly believe that virtually every child (barring children with medical issues) can be potty trained if the proper methods for that child are used.  Hopefully, aversives are used as a total last resort and that even medication for behavioral issues has been tried first.

Twins, that could cause problems in potty training for sure, im glad you got everything worked out and were successful!

beginner, I had no clue they were planning on reclassifying it as a mood disorder, thats really interesting where did you read that at? I know that autism is listed under mental illness if thats what you mean? I know everyone has the slogan its not mental, but it makes sense to me (dont stone me anyone!). Did you know that bipolar is considered a developmental disability? I had no clue, but I was reading that alot of aspergers kids have hallucinations etc. Last I heard they were wanting to reclassify it as the same thing as high functioning autism. I always thought the yucky feeling of going in his pants would make him go but for some reason it didnt work with us. Im glad things worked out so great!

Thanks!

143hayden39617.6626851852DS was still doing #2 in his pants at 6 years old.  It wasn't that he was "afraid" of the toilet but that through school he would hold it so long, or during an activity at home, etc. (talking days by then), that when he wanted to go it was too physically painful.  When things started changing was when he went to the park with the new neighbor after kindy started and had an accident in his pants.  Everyone in the car had to endure it the whole ride home and I know he felt bad about that (kid might have said something about it too, but I wasn't there, just surmising).  At this time I also started giving him an OTC stool softener  (Senecot) which then made things easier and that year he eventually got it!Okay, I think I read all the previous posts. First of all, yes children this
young do get depressed. Also, isn't here talk of Asperger's being reclassified
as a mood disorder.
Anyway, ds wouldn't do # 2 so we just put her in underwear one day and she
went #2 in them once and was completely upset by it. The next time she had
to go she was terrified of releasing into the toilet but she really had to go
and I held her hand and talked gently to her. After that she was fine, potty
trained at 4 1/2.i googled it an found an article about the new dsm v. i just looked again and can't find it. I'll try tomorrow.

Here's a link to NorwayMom's potty training resources:

http://www.autism-pdd.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16098&am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;KW=resources

If it doesn't work - cut and paste!

Ok I JUST had him clean up his poop (talk about timing!) because i realized he was outside (climbed thru the doggy door) and he said he pooped so I told him to go into the bathroom and clean himself up. Itook him in the bathroom and he took off his pullups (gingerly as not to get anything on him) while he hummed happily to himself. I gave him toilet paper and he wiped with no problem tho he did freak out when his finger touched some but got over it quickly and started humming happily again. I cleaned him up and had him put it down the toilet/throw the diaper away etc which he did all with a big fat smile on his face! He has no problem doing this.

Snoopywoman, I thought there has to be kids that suffer depression, when i brought if up to his dev. ped. the doctor looked at us and asked us Why is he depressed? Theres a reason, kids dont have mood disorders like adults do. I was sooo offended! Of course obvously he gets depressed over certain things but lots of times we have no clue! I did talk to his neuro this last week at his app. who said when he says things like that to give him extra hugs and let him know that we love him etc. Im not sure what to do when he says things like that but I def. can tell the times he says it to gain attention or uses it loosely when hes frustrated with something and the times he says it with meaning (altho im not sure he knows how to 'kill') It worries me alot because hes only 4 and talking like this! I have read the youngest child to commit suicide is 6 yrs old!

I have the toilet training book (his dev. ped) recommended it and the reason actually the main reason im worried about the potty training is because of how he behaves now (self injury/ tantrum etc). But i have to keep at it otherwise hel use it as a way to control me and avoid it i know. Thanks alot for the resources and potty thread, Id like to know how to desensitize his rear end becuase hes mentioned splashing water scaring him? Hes definately aware of his body because hes held it in (#2) for 3 days and hes reg. 1-2x a day. I really dont know concerning kindergarten i was going to find out at his kindy screening beginning of July but i told the office staff and they told me to just put it down on his paperwork he wasnt potty trained fully yet.

Tzoya, the baby thing worked with my brother and sister and countless other kids too ive heard of. I certainly hope hel be trained before the end of elementary school! I think kidnergarten may help more since its all day but i have a feeling if no luck still hel just be holding it till he comes home which then i can probably drag him onto the toilet or bribe him on there it may work out for us! He pees in the toilet fine tho occasionally will pee his himself but hes pooped at my dads house and my lil bros come up to me and told me hes stinky but id have to find my son cuz hes hiding or running away from me or sometimes hel sheepishly come to me but i think its partly he simply dosnt care and then sometimes he does care if that makes ANY sense at all! He cares about his hair being messy and talks about not being 'handsome' because his hairs messy and wants me to brush it even tho he screams and crys the whole time (go figure!) so i know hes self aware! I havnt gotten a full physical workup to figure out if thats why he isnt and never thought i needed to but maybe i should. I think by the time summers over if he isnt trained I will be taking more drastic measures and seeking out help for sure.

Thanks!

Tzoya, I did get rid of all the diapers (ran out and didnt buy anymore) but I got tired of cleaning himi up. He showed discomfort in peeing himself and Im not sure if he didnt feel it or sucked it up so I wouldnt know right away or what. I remember him asking me to be changed on a couple occasions when he had a dirty/wet pullup. I dont like using the whole baby thing because he goes on and on for days and gets depressed and hits himself when we do but hubbys said it esp the past few days, about him being a big boy etc. and he says hel go potty but of course he dosnt! If I try dragging him into the bathroom and force him to sit on the potty hel start slapping and punching himself in the face and wailing away on the bathroom walls and saying he hates himself, is gonna kill himself etc. He says hes scared of the toilet but I dont think thats the truth because he pees in it just fine. He dosnt really have any friends that he sees everyday besides going to tball,soccer, martial arts class and the park, movie nights its not anything where he has a special friend. He is close to my little brother and sister (4 and 6) but we see them only once a month and weve tried the whole 'Nicholas and is a big boy..." etc. and he either dosnt care, or tunes you out and goes into his own world, or he gets mad or starts crying, o and he also start talking in jargon suddenly to avoid it but is sooo stubborn! The whole "be a big boy and not a baby" thing dosnt work for him cuz all it does is make him upset and say horrible things/self injury but thats it. Weve had him watch my little brother and sis  poop and then say it was his turn after and hel get excited to go poop but then only pee and feel all happy like he pooped or something, i dont relaly understand. O and ive made him clean up his poop before which he didnt like at all but does for the sake of pleasing me cuz he knows Im upset with him but he keeps doing it anyway. If you met him your mind would be boggled why dosnt he just poop but he dosnt seem to grasp the concept or think it is important but at the same time he will hold it in till he gets home but yet embarring him dosnt work at all with him besides bring out nasty behaviors id rather not do and make him depressed (yes my sons like the only kid ive ever met that actually gets literally depressed!) He is on a waiting list for services with DDD rightnow and I am wondering if there is some sort of potty training things they can help me with (if theres even any left over funding for him to recieve anything at all). It kinda worries me and I wish I could have someone trained to help me know what to do but even his therapist tried working on it with him and he got violent and 'not there'. I never thought that it might be a resist to change but its clearly behavioral and probably has soemthing to do with something he feels is a gigantic change for him. I wonder if he will regress and become extremely difficult to manage once he isnt in diapers anymore, now im thinking about all these things!

Snoopywoman, My husband does the whole embarrasing thing and we get into fights because I saw it didnt work at all and of course he still does it! I really couldnt do that to him and all ive seen it do is lead to aggression and my son talking bad about himself literally days (i guess obsessing over it) but never does it make him actually use the toilet.

Is this something that is unusual? Does this mean that WILL be in diapers for a long time possibly after kindergarten??? Maybe this has to do with his bipolar dx his psych was talking about it and about the time he drew with his feces on our wall, maybe it isnt autism related now?

I apologize, but I have to say something here. I should say that my ds was hard to potty train but we managed to get it done right before age 4. So, I don't have experience training a child as old as your ds. That's my caveat - I don't have the same experience in training an older child.

BUT, embarrassing him in front of friends could have dire consequences, in my opinion. His friends will remember this and may tease him about it. They may start to notice his differences moreso and may not want to hang around him as much. This seems like the exact opposite of something you would want to do with a child with autism - to alienate their friends? I simply don't think that embarrassing a child in front of his peers over something like potty training is appropriate and could even be seen as verbally/emotionally abusive. Seriously. When I worked with foster families, if they had done that with one of the foster children, the children would most likely have been removed from their homes. Granted, there is a higher standard set for foster families - but doing something like that was not something that was considered acceptable. And I had some 4 year olds who were not trained - that isn't uncommon among foster children due to several issues.

I'm sorry to sound harsh - and tzoya, I know you have a lot more experience. But, I think we all need to be careful doing things to humiliate our kids. I don't see how doing that would get compliance, I would think it would just result in a low self-esteem.

snoopywoman39617.3008217593[QUOTE=tzoya]

Did you get rid of the diaper (none in the house, none in the attic, none in the car) and just put him in underpants, even through the nite?  THAT is what worked for my son. NO POSSIBILITY OF DIAPERS. 

[/QUOTE]

This triggered a memory in me!  T actually RAN OUT of dipes (Actually &^%#$@ pullups!  Never used em for anyone, after her!) during an ICE STORM.  It was the clincher event, for her!

Did you get rid of the diaper (none in the house, none in the attic, none in the car) and just put him in underpants, even through the nite?  THAT is what worked for my son. NO POSSIBILITY OF DIAPERS.  Your son is SO verbal that I would sit him down and tell him that certain priveleges are not for babies. That if he insists on using diapers, then (by definiton) he is still a baby and can't access "big boy" toys and activities. If your husband won't cooperate, do what you can.  I see that you have a pool.  Tell him that using the pool is only for those who are toilet trained -- it's unsanitary otherwise. And let him use the pool ONLY after he uses the toilet.  NO EXCEPTIONS. If you give in ONCE, it will only reinforce the bad behavior and make it worse.  If he wants to go to a movie, tell him "That activiity is not for babies in diapers...once you learn to use the toilet, you will be a "big boy" and not a baby anymore and you'll be able to do those sorts of things."

Right now, your son has the best of both worlds -- he doesn't have to use the toilet (a change of habit -- something that is difficult for kids on the spectrum to accept) but he can also move on in the fun things of life.  It is time that he be encouraged to take responsibilty for his behavior.  The natural consequence of behaving like a baby (ie, wearing diapers) is that you get excluded from more age-appropriate activities.  The sooner your son learns that, the sooner he is likely to start using the toilet.  I would even embarrass him in front of his friends and mention the diapers in front of them.  This, coupled with wet/dirty pants 24/7 might help.  And, btw, make HIM clean up his mess (supervising the clean-up of course). Many children start using the toilet after cleaning up their own poop and washing their own underpants only once. And, yes, he CAN do that at his age.  Sorry if this sounds harsh, but he is cognitively and communicatively ready for a reality check.

Let us know how it goes. 

tzoya39617.1658217593

Snoopywoman, I am really afraid of kids making fun of him esp. cuz he is sensitive and takes everything in the worst way possible and gets depressed and dosnt like himself. Im hoping he will qualify for services in his upcoming eval. so hopefully if he isnt by the time summers over they can help us work on it.

IMBGecko, Naked approach dosnt work with my son i tried it and after that his closet (not to mention the whole house) becomes his personal bathroom.

Mamabear, Thanks, I think she probably thought he was potty trained by now since we havnt seen her in a year. I dont understand why people do stuff like that too. I really like the idea of taping the reward up high i think that may work since he gets into everything i try to hide from him or keep in his sight sofar.

Foxl, Ive heard of that and it seems to be true then, pretty interesting stuff.

Tzoya, I think thats a great idea and mentioned it to my hubby who is against it because that means his future dirtbike racer cant practice, practice, practice I agree that may be the ticket right there so well see! My son sounds exactly like your son used to be! Ive sent him to preschool in underwear before and he didnt wet himself once and what i think is so strange is that with his sensory sensitivities (not liking to be held=squished, being messy etc) i thought it would do the trick too but no such luck, go figure! I thought it was cuz the wilbarger got him wearing clothes so it mustve helped him in that area but hed been cruizing around the house pooping on the floor ages before his sensitivity started improving.

Shelley, Thanks for showing me how you taught sarah, i keep thinking if i just let him go hel go on his own oneday and surprise me but as time drags on its kinda like Ok cmon already! He does have a potty picture schedule up on the wall as well.

Thanks everyone for all your advice and input!

Every child is really, really different. The "baby" thing has always worked for my son and he NEVER hits himself in frustration. If yours does, clearly that's not the way to go. What about making him clean up after himself?  It's entirely possible the last time you got rid of diapers, he was just not ready. He might be now, especially if you insist he clean up after himself (not with anger, but simply matter-of-factly giving him the tools to clean up and supervising).  Of course, this may not work. I know of NO children on the autism spectrum whose functioning level is high enough to be in a mainstreamed sort of school placement (including self-contained class) who are not toilet trained at least by the end of elementary school.  Some still have nighttime accidents well into the teen years (and this includes Asperger's kids) but none are not daytime toilet trained. 

What do his peers do when he wets himself? Is he even aware of their reaction? 

If you have tried everything and he's still not trained (and you have gotten him a complete PHYSICAL workup to ensure that there is no underlying medical issue), then you are completely right -- you need professional assistance.  Seek it out as soon as you can. 

My ds has been depressed at times. But for your ds, it may be related to the bipolar issue as well. Please take seriously any talk of  killing himself - I don't want to worry you more, but it does happen.

I know there is a book about toilet training kids with autism and I'm pretty sure that NorwayMom has a thread about toilet training resources.

Even though he pees in the toilet, he may be scared to poop in it. There is something different about it. I have heard a lot of kids (both NT and with autism) who have fears of pooping on the toilet. Also, I have a friend whose 5 year old still is pooping in her pants often. She will poop in the potty on occasion, but she doesn't seem to know when it's going to happen. It's a body awareness thing, I think. This little girl hasn't been diagnosed with anything - but something is up.

I just honestly don't know how he's going to be able to go to mainstream kindergarten in pull-ups without an aide? Are they going to have to call you if he poops at school (considering it is all-day) and have you come change him? Or send him to the nurse to get cleaned up and get a change of clothes? There needs to be a plan in place and the teachers need to be aware of this so that they don't inadvertently add to the problem by over-reacting if he does this.

I'm glad you have noticed that embarrassing doesn't work with him - and if he goes into depressions and it doesn't change the behavior - well, that clearly isn't going to be effective. I hope your dh gets on board with that soon!

It's hard to be consistent, but I think you probably need to have him clean himself up every single time. Not just once in a while. Yes, it's completely inconvenient - but otherwise, it's going to be that much more difficult for him to get the concept that poop goes in the potty. I have a friend who would have her child actually scrape the poop into the potty and say, "Poop goes in the potty." and then clean up the underwear and themselves. Of course you probably have to help - but make them do a lot of the yucky stuff.

Good luck on this - I would do a search for NorwayMom's resources on toilet training. Hang in there!

DON'T FORCE HIM!!!!!  That may be the root of the problem.  Since you've tried everything, ignore it entirely for awhile.  Making it a battle will only likely end in severe constipation and I know you don't want THAT problem.  It's become a bone of contention between the two of you. If he doesn't want to use the toilet, ignore the issue. Leave him in diapers. But if it were me, I'd go diapers ALL THE WAY. For example, I'd put him in Swimmies for the pool. At his age and functioning level, he might start to want to be like the other kids his age and wear a real bathing suit. Yes, I'd use JUST SWIMMIES.  It might be embarassing for you, but it might eventually be that for him, too.  Let his peers help shape his behavior. It might work once you're out of the equation. Also, I'd make HIM responsible for his own clean-up.  Have him learn to wipe his own bottom and put his own dirty diaper in the proper place and clean up any additional mess.  He can change HIMSELF.  Instead of no diapers 24/7, try ALL diapers 24/7 for a month or two and see how that works. I believe the more attention you pay to this, the less success. Let the teachers next year deal with it.  Maybe then they'll see the need for an IEP. There's a silver lining to everything.

thanks snoopywoman, ya thats what it sounds like more to me to thier just comparing the two. I dont think it belongs in mood disorders too but i do think it is considered a mental health problem which lots of people say it isnt.

Casey, wow that must be really tough! I hope u can find a way to potty train him soon. Like tzoya said my son is high functioning and while his receptive speech is a year behind he understands going to the potty and on his last eval he was right on target with his age in expressive language he just seems to not want to. I have noticed today when i dragged him in there to sit he cried that he was afraid he was going to fall which i think may be an exscuse or not because he does pull them out of the air it seems, so maybe i should work more on that. Maybe it is something similar for ur son? Ive been thinking alot about it and my son dosnt like change and i think it has alot to do with him changing the way hes done something for so long its starting to bring the animal instinct out of him to keep it that way or soemthing. I hope u can get things sorted out for ur son, i know there are programs ur son should qualify cuz of his age and dx to help with potty training?

Tzoya, thanks for the reminder, im glad u havnt heard of any kids with aspergers syndrome to never be potty trained, it does help me to hear that. I just have to stick to it and force him because hes going to learn that by punching himself in the face means he dosnt have to do what i tell him to do and i can see that happening already.

Thanks everyone!

 

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