If it's a catoni Daniel scored 100 on this test. Figth fight is all Se parent's do these days. My answer is rid the teaching to tests.
It is time for my son's triennial review. The school psycologist just called me and ofcorse I mentioned giving him a nonverbal IQ test as my son is nonverbal and has significant issues with receptive language also. You can make him understand but you have to use pictures. He completely blew me off. Says they have a toni somewhere but the one he uses says it goes as young as 2 will be more accurate. Guess what it has verbal and nonverbal parts to it. How is that going to be accurate. He totally dismissed the TONI and The LEITER R.
This is not going to make my son look good. He will test as MR and it will not be accurate at all. It would be fine if he were MR but he is not.
I hate this stuff. Fight fight fight is all I do lately when it comes to autism.
The name of the test is Stanford-Binet
They have never done an IQ test before but want to do one now that he is 6. He has a dx of autism on his IEP and they don't like it. We had to fight to get it on so he could get ABA. I think they WANT him to test MR so they change the label and take away the ABA.
OR I could be jaded and suspicious. If I am it is for good reasons.
My son was given the Leiter-R at age almost 7, and he didn't do significantly better on it than on the verbal tests. For him, the problem was the stressful test situation (in a new setting, administered by people he didn't know), plus general attentional problems and lack of motivation.
We got a result of mildly retarded, which we don't really agree with, but in a way it showed his performance level even though it did not show his potential.
I totally understand your skepticism, and I hope you and the school find an alternative you're both satisfied with. The tests that are offered usually have to do with which tests the administrator is certified on, and the school isn't going to want to order tests that they can't do themselves because of cost -- that's what I assume, anyhow.
Good luck with everything.
The way the do the triennial is they have you sign one piece of paper that allows them to do all testing. We were told last year (not in writing) That they don't do verbally based testing on nonverbal kids. The Psychologist said they do have the TONI but, according to him, he's only seen it around somewhere. My son has five students in his SE class. 3 Including my son are nonverbal. In the older class they have 2 that are nonverbal. The must be used to administering a nonverbal test. I guess I will have to request an IEE. I tried to explaine about testing into his disability and all the things I have learned from here. He was not listening. Blew me off and told me what test he thought was best.
The name of the test is the Stanford-Binet. Anyone here of this one.
IQ tests are required in every state. Of course, the school MUST have the parent's signature to allow the testing. However, if a parent refuses to allow an IQ, the school district is effectively off the hook for providing FAPE (Free Appropriate Public Education). The law says, though, that the school district cannot test into a child's disability. That means, if a child has significant verbal issues, a verbal IQ test is not a valid way to test that child. Put IN WRITING to the school district that you are willing to approve an IQ test but that you will only approve a test that does NOT test into your child's disability. You want them to use an IQ test that tests his intelligence, not his verbal ability. YOu will approve a speech/language test to test his verbal ability. Tell them that if they don't have a TONI or a Leiter, you will be willing to have them send your son to an outside provider to get one of those tests done (remember, put this ALL in writing). If, in the end, they INSIST on using a standard IQ test, sign the approval. One thing Hearing Officers hate to see is a noncompliant parent. But make SURE you let the District know that you will immediately be requesting an Independent Educational Evaluation at public expense, forcing them to pay for the in-district testing AND the out-of-district testing (at the tester of YOUR choice). They MUST pay or they MUST take you to an expedited hearing to prove why THEIR testing IS valid. And they KNOW they won't be able to prove that because to test a nonverbal child with a verbal test goes against the provision in the law that they must not test into a child's disability. Also, the subtests on a verbal IQ test almost always show extreme scatter when given to an ASD child, invalidating the test. If they DO do a verbal IQ test, ask that all the subtest scores be included in the IEP Meeting (in writing, of course). Then ask them to explain how the extreme scatter (if there is scatter, which is highly likely) effects the validity of the results of the test -- and ask them to put their explanation in writing in the report.
In the end, we parents MUST agree to IQ testing. Our big fallback is the IEE.
PS -- The reason school districts resist giving the TONI or Leiter is that they don't OWN those tests. They are expensive to buy and few kids need them. Even if the District does own a nonverbal IQ test, many school psychologists have no experience whatsoever in giving that sort of test. If it were me, I'd try to negotiate with the District to get your IEE without their giving a test themselves. Explain to them that they will end up paying for the IEE anyway and that going straight for the outside test will save time and trouble and the time and effort of their own personnel. I did that and it worked.[QUOTE=zayzer]They have never done an IQ test before but want to do one now that he is 6. [/QUOTE]
Zayzer,
Most psychologists will tell you that IQ test results for a child younger than 6 are not very meaningful. My son received his first IQ test right around his 6th birthday. He was given the Weschler (regular IQ test) and scored an 87. Six months later we took him for a private neuropsych evaluation and she retested him using the UNIT (Universal Non-Verbal Intelligence Test) and he scored a 107.
I recall that when my son was 4 I asked about IQ testing at an IEP meeting and they told me that he was too young to get meaningful results and that they would wait until he was 6 to formally test him. They then added that from what they were seeing in school they felt his intelligence was completely normal. After seeing his UNIT test results this summer I'd say they were correct in their assessment.
I briefly asked my school about testing him with a non-verbal test and they told me that they the special education county office had a copy of the LEITER that our school could borrow but that they had to find someone qualifed to administer it as it requires special training (as it is nonverbal, instructions are given in pantomime) and they would look into it. Shortly afterwards I met with the private neuropsych and since she was planning to do it I didn't bother following back up with the school.
The first version of the Stanford Binet is from 1905, so I learned about it in psychology class in college, but I have no experience with it since it hasn't yet been used with my kids.
Here's something I found on the tests in question:
"The Wechsler tests and the Stanford-Binet-IV are commonly used for school-aged verbal children. The Stanford-Binet may be more appropriate to use with individuals with autism spectrum disorders because it has a lower floor (a greater number of items meant for a lower developmental age) and it also includes more nonverbal options and subtests that measure memory. For individuals who are nonverbal, the Test of Nonverbal Intelligence-Third Edition (TONI-3; Brown, Sherbenou;& Johnsen, 2001) and the Leiter International Performance Scale-Revised are options with good reliability and validity that do not require verbal responding. However, these tests may not provide an accurate measure of ability in individuals with autism either. For example, the TONI-3 requires the examiner to pantomime the directions. Individuals with autism spectrum disorders often have difficulty understanding nonverbal forms of communication, so this may be confusing for this group."
Source: http://www.iidc.indiana.edu/irca/ServArticles/AccessProcess. html
Thanks Norway Mom! More to consider. It may not be so bad after all? I guess I'll have to wait for the result and see if they fit my son. He is so full of stuff that peek out every once in a while but the problem is he has trouble expressing on a daily basis and if pushed too much will shut down.I don't know about the answer to the developmentally younger than 6 question.
Regarding how IQ tests affect services, I'm not the expert but I'll share what I know/have heard. Yes, a child can get SpEd with a normal IQ. The vast majority of Aspies have above normal IQ's. In the past, like when my brother was little, kids with high IQ's were often overlooked by the SpEd system. Today, however, alot more is considered when defining "success" in school. It's not just grades any more, it's behavior, social, etc. I remember reading this somewhere in Emotions to Advocacy but I can't recall which chapter.
A big reason that schools use IQ is to measure (we can debate validity of this until the cows come home) a child's potential and to provide some barometer of reasonableness. For example, if you have a child with an IQ of 140 who cannot hold a pencil and write properly, it's a big deal and it would make sense to provide OT services for that child to focus on writing because it is expected that a child with that intelligence, who can probably already read fluently, learn to write or it will impede performance up to potential. However, let's say there is another child with an IQ of 40 who is also unable to hold a pencil and write either. However, it is not expected that a child with an IQ of 40 will ever be able to achieve literacy. In this 2nd case, would it make sense to give the child OT to work on handwriting? There are so many hours in a day in which to provide services. In the 2nd case the emphasis would likely be on self help skills, with the goal of perhaps holding a job and living in a group home someday.
Where this all falls apart is when you take into account the scatter typically seen in the testing of ASD kids. You can have an ASD kid that tests with an IQ of 40 on a verbal IQ test, but that isn't an accurate measure of his intellectual potential. That's why it is important to look at all of the subscale scores and not just the overall score because that's where you see what the child's strengths and weaknesses actually are.
I think there is alot of controversy about IQ tests, how they are used, etc. and there always will be. However, I decided that if my kid is going to be measured in any way by a number, I want that number to be as accurate as possible so I went and got the nonverbal test. (We did the UNIT.)
Daniel scores higher on his nonverbal than the verbal iq test. I ignore scores anyhow and just work on the week spots. Later in life we can find copeing skills as adults. I work on both things with our son. Daniel will shut down when what is being taught is to hard for him to understand.Kristy you said most tests for kids under six is not very meaningful and I agree. Do you know if a child is developmentally younger than six if that same rule applies?
I also wonder how IQ tests affect services. If a child has a normal IQ do they even get Special Education?
Zayzer Wrote: If a child has a normal IQ do they even get Special Education?