123 Magic | Autism PDD

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I was wondering if any of you have tried 123 Magic with your children?  Ansley's OT introduced us to this (although we used a similar technique with our older NT daughter). It seemed promising initially, but now when you say "that's one!"  she just gets mad as heck and starts throwing things or pulling my hair.  OT (who has MANY years of experience) says this is a natural progression and it will pass - that she's just testing us.  Does anyone out there have experience with this or have other discipline strategies that work with kids with autism?

We use 123 Magic and I do not exagerate when I say it has saved our sanity!

I know there are many differing opinions on disciplining ASD kids. I would say that if 123 Magic is going to work for you, you'll know fairly soon -- within a month, certainly. We are fortunate that our son "gets" it. Then again, he's not officially diagnosed as yet, and we're suspecting he's on the milder end of the spectrum -- his receptive language is pretty strong. So I would say that your mileage may vary. But it's a great system -- we rarely count past one anymore!

I have heard of Magic 1, 2 , 3 and even sat through watching their video. In my opinion you need a child who UNDERSTANDS language and right from wrong before it will work. If your ASD child has those abilities I would consider thinking it might be worth trying but if your asd child DOES NOT have the ability to know right and wrong, UNDERSTAND language, is impulsive, etc.  then I myself wouldn't waste my time with it.

These kids need predictability and consistency. The respond well to routine and structure too.

Here are some links for discipline for an asd child
Parenting: Disciplining a Child with PDD.

Changes in Routine Equals Changes in Behavior

Behaviors

Behavior modification controlling tantrum

Thanks for the great links...

Honestly, I don't think she truly knows right from wrong and she is VERY impulsive.  Her receptive language is minimal at best.  However, 123 is simple enough that she seems to be grasping it - occasionally.  She has responded to counting but it's hit or miss.  She will have complete opposite reactions to the exact same scenario.  EX:  Playing with a simple shape  puzzle one day.  The first time she got frustrated and threw a puzzle piece.  I gave her "that's 1" and she stopped.  She eventually got the piece in and clapped for herself.  Five minutes later, we did it again - the same thing happened and when I said "that's 1" she threw a complete tantrum and wouldn't stop.  However, during time out (which I'm always present to make sure she doesn't hurt herself), she was able to calm back down in less than 2 minutes.  I think when she does respond it's because she recognizes that 123 means something - but I don't think she really understands what she is doing wrong.

I'm just afraid that instead of fixing the bad behavior that sometimes I'm causing more of it! 

 

ASD kids throw fits, bite, kick, bang their heads, etc FOR A REASON to them. Not saying its appropriate behavior but if they are having a meltdown because they cant handle the frustration of not being able to put the puzzle pieces into a puzzle in some order specific to them and you tell them THATS 1 the child may tantrum more because they  are trying to communicate to you and because they think you are telling them to stop doing the puzzle NOT the behavior. So they may begin to think doing the puzzle is wrong.

How does she do with redirection?

That makes so much sense, Michelle.  I never thought of it that way.  During the normal course of a day I can usually redirect her when I sense a tantrum is coming on (I seem to have developed a 6th sense for this!) and tantrums are almost always triggered by frustration but, being nonverbal, she can't tell me what it is.  Sometimes I feel like a detective!  I mostly use the 123 method when we're "working" on something and she does tend to act out more then so maybe that is the source of her frustration and not the 123.  I guess she may just be getting more and more angry because she can't comprehend what is expected of her.  I may be assuming that she understands more than she does.  If that's the case,  how do I communicate to her when a certain behavior is wrong or unacceptable?

 

 

 

Amy being nonverbal and unable to communicate with you is a frustration for any child in itself. Rewards, lot of OVER EXGGERATE positive praise helps reinforce good behivors for our kids. I don't think you can just communicate to our kids something is right or wrong. They are very visual learners and learn best by being shown. Again over exggerate positive priase when soing something good or right, and redirecting and/or ignoring the bad behaviors seem to help these kids. Do you use PECS with her?

Keep in mind too Amy her frustration could be over a change in routine... not being prepared to do "work", having been taken awy from something she was enjoying doing, or having to sit and focus too long. She may only have the ability to sit for 90 seconds. Sometimes we have to walk them through the steps and give them a break between each step and gradually increase the length of work time and the amount of break time. Using timers can also be beneficial when "working". Because the beep signals an end. Remember to always praise her efforts. Good Sitting, good listening, if she tries to speak good words....... It isn't ever easy but eventually you get in a rythem and find what works best.

Also take a look at what you have been doing. Is the work time you do with her every day? Is it always at the same time each day? Structure, routine, consistency, repetition  really help our kids!

Mark_dad alot of asd kids have no safety awareness (or very little) many are runners and climbers and show no fear. I agree these behaviors need to be discouraged  and YES it is very hard to know what to do. Im just a parent like all of you here. I don't have any specialized background training (other than what my own autistic son has provided me with

I do know our kids learn very well with  repetition and consistency. If the child keeps climbing provide a safe place they CAN climb, or an alternate activity that would be similar. (some people have bought and installed rock climbing walla or set up a climbing activity center in a basement or back yard.) Everytime they climb something unsafe redirect them to the safe climbing thing that was designed for them, and praise them for climbing there. If you are consistent redirecting EVERY SINGLE TIME the repetition should help them learn.  It can be used for various things.

A few months before my son turned 3 and he was oficially diagnosed, we started a one on one "summer school" for him. He had meltdowns over being sung hello to, he had meltdowns over having to get his PECS piece, he had meltdowns over having to sit, he had meltdowns over getting a cookie. Everything was hand over hand. He would kick, hit, bite, scream, headbang, run and so on the ENTIRE time we were there. It was extremely hard to watch because I thought to myself what am I putting him through? I wanted tojust comfort him. And I knew it wouldn't just be left there at his "school" when we went home. But it was extremely important for him to be taught how to do these things and NOT to show ANY emotion in doing it hand over hand with him. No changes in the tone of voice, no discipline - just redirection. Since he wouldn't touch the PECS board and couldn't sit to do the puzzle (because he wouldn't sit) - he was rewarded with "go play" after he touched the PECS schedule, then he was brought to the table to sit. AS SOON as he sat for 10 seconds he again was rewarded to "go play" for a few minutes, put one puzzle piece in "go play" etc.

Redirection of behavior... as he screamed we would direct his attention to what we wanted from him.... "check schedule"  or  "sit"  or  "look puzzle"  repeating it over and over. These kids already have trouble understanding, so use just a few short words and keep using the same ones. Changing the words will only confuse them more.

When they bite you, hit you, kick you etc  - first - try to anticipate it. You know your child best and are probably learning what sets them off - just exactly how mad they are - and you know the things that they do when they get that mad - if posible grab the hand or foot and say in a very even tone "no kicking". If they continue to kick as you hold their foot; again say "no kicking" (try getting eye contact when you do this) This can be used for numerous behaviors too.

If they are out of control and aggressive to you or someone else or self injurious you can either rediect them to a safe designated place for their meltdown like a bean bag chair or a cozy corner with pillows, some people like the couch although for me as out of control as my son gets the couch is NOT safe for him as he will throw himself on the floor and has a chance of hurting himself on the end tables. You can also put them in a basket hold where you sit on the floor with them their back to your chest, their hands criss crossed infront of them as you hold their hands down so they cant pinch, scratch, hit, bite themself etc. and your legs wrapped over theirs so they cant kick you.

Another idea that I have not been able to try during a meltdown is using a therapy ball. They are very calming! If you see the meltdown coming redirect to the therapy ball where they can be bounced or roll or flap and rock against. (my son spends most of his day on one now) Hopefully if you can start them young enough they wont fight you to go on it when they are having a meltdown when they are bigger. (my son resists it when he is angry and he is too big for me to safely hold on a 50" ball when he is in a meltdown) Hopefully, they can learn to use something like this and learn some self regulation skills rather than for my son learning to hold it together and never having learned how to release it appropriately.

Heres another link I found to discipline and the ASD child
http://autism.about.com/cs/behavorialissues/a/discipline.htm

Discipline and the Child with Autism

Tips on Parental Discipline

How do we handle the aggressive behaviors that many children with autism exhibit when they are disappointed or frustrated? This is an age old question that was brought home to me today, when Jonathan smashed a drinking glass in the kitchen sink because he was upset at being told no. Are there good ways to handle this problem, or are we as parents left to fend for ourselves?

Fortunately, while actual situations must be dealt with on an individual basis, there are some excellent suggestions from the book <I>Pervasive Developmental Disorders: Finding a Diagnosis and Getting Help</I> by Mitzi Waltz. This is one of the most practical books I have found for parents and other caregivers, and I highly recommend it. The following are adapted from Chapter 10 of this book.

 

Michelle brings up some good points. Our son has many behaviors that, when seen in an NT kid, would probably be punished. But, mixed in with these, are other far more obvious "testing behaviors," such as standing on chairs and looking right at us with a grin, knowing that we can't stand it. Attention-getting behaviors or behaviors that put him or others in danger.

We feel strongly that he must learn that these can't happen!

I agree that LOTS of positive praise works best - at least it has for my daughter.  Everytime she does something new or great our whole family dances around and hoots and hollers!  We're a little crazy but she LOVES that response.  Her therapists think it's so funny that she won't talk but she can say WOOHOOOO!!! when she's happy or proud of herself!  We have introduced pictures (food, toys, drink) and a few pic-sims (eat, drink).  She responds to the real pictures we made much better than the symbols.  These are also very frustrating for her.  We are going to keep on trying though because I want her to have a way to communicate if she doesn't talk for a while.  I am definitely going to try some of your techniques Michelle.  We've been using small bits of food for reward - but I especially like the idea of play time or free time.

Mark_dad, Ansley also has no safety awareness.  DH and I are always on the lookout for things that she can hurt herself on, because if there's a way to hurt herself on something, trust me, she will find it!  (Friends with NT children think we are too overprotective - they just don't get it. ) That's why I want so badly to work toward her gaining some understanding of when to stop certain behaviors.  I know she's slowly learning some impulse control -I'm catching glimpses of it!   We are just going to keep plugging along! 

I just know that these issues are better dealt with now why she's small (and I can still pick her upand physically help her!) than later when she is bigger and (hopefully) doing more with peers or in classrooms when I'm not around!

Thanks for all the responses - I feel like we've been somewhat alone in this journey until now. I've been doing the best I can to educate myself but it is so awesome to be able to get input from other parents going through the same things.

 

i always took the stance with my son of rewarding good behavior, not in punishing bad. think too much focus on bad is confusing. they need to know what is expected of them. would let him go and buy a video if he behaved in church etc. something as small as if you behave at grandmoms then you will get a fovorite food. gradually the need for rewards decrease when the child knows what is expected. if i have to bring him somewhere i know he dislikes we talk about how he needs to  behave just beforehand. also it is difficult for them to stop something they are enjoying right when you want them to. if you want them to stop doing a puzzle they are enjoying it is easier to say we  need to stop the puzzle  in 5 minutes etc. let them get used to the idea.

Michelle, you mentioned using a therapy ball...Ansley responds really well to the ball but she responds VERY quickly to brushing and the brush is more convenient to carry with us. I'm not saying it always works but when it does, it is an immediate response...I mean she's screaming one minute and then silence AND smiles when you start the brushing.  I think brushing / sensory integration therapy is what is helping her to self-regulate (am I using the right terminology?) so much quicker than she did even a few months ago.

Being a huge proponent of 123 Magic (IF your kid understands it), I just want to emphasize that when the kid "gets" it, there are almost no timeouts. They hear "that's one" and they know that there's no point in pushing it to "2," to "3," and then to a TO.

I realize that is only appropriate for a few kids on the spectrum, but again, you'll know very quickly whether or not it will work. We taught our son 123 Magic when we had no inkling whatsoever that he might be ASD (and, truthfully, as we await diagnoses, we still don't know that he is). I'm really, really gald we did -- he got it, and his behavior problems, while far from nonexistant, are worlds better today than they were 9 months ago. As I type this, I'm having trouble remembering the last time I gave him a TO, or the last time he did one of his big "testers" (like standing up in our rocking chair).
Speaking of safety awareness - we had to fence in our entire 2 1/2 acres! Very expensive even though dh installed it himself. Noah found out that if he ran toward the road, mommy and daddy would chase him and he just loves to be chased. Uuuugghh. The speed limit on our road is 45mph but the people around here view speed limits as mere suggestions! They don't even stop for the railroad tracks nearby (lot of deaths) - they would never be able to stop in time to avoid hitting a toddler darting out in the road if they can't avoid a train.  I hope someday ds will understand that the road is dangerous! 
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