schizophrenia/schizoaffective | Autism PDD

Does anyone here have a child who is dually dx with schiz??

I have a lot of thoughts and fears bumping around in my head right now about ds. :( Would like to hear your stories so I know what exactly to ask our dr's.

Thanks!

Michelle

what kinds of symptoms are you concerned about? Delusions and pychotic
episodes can be congruent with many different diagnoses. Mood swings,
too.

It's not too common to have a dx of schizophrenia before late adolescence/
early adulthood. There are exceptions to everything. But, i am very curious
as to what specific concerns you have.

I've been reading about childhood onset, and for some reason it's really clicking with me.

Ds has been a real conundrum. He is dx with pdd-nos. Even though he does have a lot of autistic behaviors, there is just SOMETHING..... I can't even put my finger on it. Call it intuition, hunch, whatever, but something telling me that it's just not all there is to it.

He was dx with epilepsy/sz disorder a year ago. It was based off an abnormal eeg and behaviors that we were seeing. The problem was, this supposed seizure activity just did not sound like any seizures we've ever heard of. I couldn't even get the neuros to put a name to it. They said if they had to call it something, they would say temporal lobe epilepsy. Only because he would have extreme fears, terror, etc... that would last for 2 hours at a time. The last "episode" he had, we thought we had lost him. It looked like a complete psychotic break. There's much more to the behaviors during this time.

He recently began having what looks like complex partial seizures. His eyes will deviate and he's gone for about 30 seconds. After these, he sleeps for several hours. Definitely sounds like seizures -- but again, just some weird nagging feeling I have. You have to see him when these occur.

He is an INTENSELY needy proprioceptive child. His OT (3 of them now) have said he is the most intense, demanding, difficult child they've ever dealt with when it comes to his movement. He is nonstop.

Childhood onset schizophrenia has never even crossed my mind until I looked further. Ds just is not easily pigeon-holed into any single dx. He is atypical in every last one. Every last symptom seems to fit with this-- except the auditory hallucinations. Or so I thought.

This evening ds was sitting with me. I asked him if he can tell me what it's like when his head "feels funny". He told me that his head is really echoey with voices. I asked him whose? He said he didn't know, maybe his own. He said it scares him. Well, all of that was news to me.

So, I'm not saying that this is it at all. But I feel it could be something worth exploring further --- as much as I really don't want to. I could go on and on with his behaviors, but I don't want to break the message board. :)

Michelle

I have known a few people who have constant seizure activity in their temporal lobes or other areas of their brain, and others who have them, not constantly, but every few seconds or so. They can definitely last a long time, and if they are simple-partial or complex-partial seizures, they can cause alterations in perception and consciousness without ever fully losing consciousness.

What would make me lean towards a seizures or something similar (such as atypical migraines, or for that matter mold allergy, which caused my brother to hallucinate sometimes as a child and also end up misdiagnosed with epilepsy) is that this stuff only happens some of the time and within fairly discrete periods of time. Not to mention the abnormal EEG. Normally 'psychosis' doesn't switch on and off like that, at least not on the order of a few hours.
gtto39370.9345601852It actually does sound like seizures to me. Temporal lobe epilepsy in some forms mimics so-called "schizophrenia" (which isn't one thing, but a whole lot of unrelated things, that even most of what is now called autism used to be subsumed under). It is often misdiagnosed as psychosis. Read the book The Spiral Staircase for one horrifying example of that.

I have complex-partial seizures and unusual temporal lobe activity in a brain scan. (I have not had them in a lab and my EEGs are not normal but not showing seizures happening.) I remember when I was little I once saw a doll of my mom's jump up and levitate and move rhythmically, and heard a strange noise, and then started vomiting all over the place and fell asleep. That's hallucinations from seizure activity, the seizure causes a remembered object (even if you don't remember where it came from, the seizure somehow dredges it up) to appear and move in a specific way, and the strange electronic-like sound, and often strange sensations or emotions coming from nowhere. I would recommend Mitzi Waltz's book on partial seizure disorders for more information, and before you jump to any other conclusions. Not all seizures are obviously seizures, some mimic other things very well.

Arghhhh I responded and then hit the wrong button....

Gtto, thanks for explaining what you've experienced. The one thing that just makes me hesitate, though is the length of these supposed seizures. Last year when we had the clustering -- it would last for 2+ hours. For that time, he was a VERY different child. He would see things, he would be terrified, extreme self injurious behaviors, VERY flat effect. I just didn't think the auras/seizures would last that long.

We have 2 very different opinions on this. One neuro says it is absolutely black and white seizure disorder. The epi we saw said it was purely autistic behavior. He even wrote off the abnormal eeg. I did find a new neuro though after he kept calling autism a behavior disorder.

We have another neuro appt tomorrow afternoon. I'm really going to try to get some concrete answers out of him.

Wow, it sounds like you really have your hands full, It must be really scary when you don't know exactly what is going on.

I would definiately share this info with psychiatrist. I'm sorry i can't be of more help to you.

Just wanted to let you know Your post caught my eye because I'm a mom too and i know you must be worried about your son. I hope all works out.

I know nothing about sz, but I do want to encourage you to follow your intuition on this. If you think something is off than it probably is, and I'd keep pushing to get answers.

I would recommend making some phone calls (universities, major teaching hospitals in your area) to get the name of a child psychiatrist who has experience with childhood onset schizophrenia. From what others have said, it's rare, so you might need to do some digging to find someone with the right background. Then I'd get your son in front of this person for an evaluation.

My mom has a complex medical profile, multiple mental and physical issues, and atypical presentation of everything and uncommon reactions to most drugs. It took a long time, and a lot of different doctors, to finally find someone that could put their arms around the whole thing and really get her the treatment she needed. There are lots of doctors out there, but with my mom we learned the hard way that not all doctors are up to the task of dealing with a very complex situation. If you're not getting the answers you need from your current team, seek out additional specialists. Follow your instincts.

((HUGS))

schizophrenia is rare in children. Schizophrenia is genetically inherited and it runs in families. There is another disorder just like Schizophrenia but it's worse in some ways. They can go for hrs and days in another world. It's like a day dream but it's hard for them to get out of it. I know a lot people who over dosed on LD have it. I can't remember the disorders name.

Thanks....

Yes, I know it's very rare. But, like I said quite a few things are clicking. It seems ds is a very complex kid and case. It doesn't necessarily run in families. Yes, there is a strong genetic component/link to it and your chances increase quite a bit if you do have other family members with it.

I have no idea if sz runs in our family. We know nothing beyond my grandparents. I can safely say, though that mental illness unfortunately does run in what we do know. :( My aunt could possibly be sz for all I do know. She disappeared about 15-20 years ago after being estranged from the family for her antics.

It's just something we're keeping in the back of our minds right now. Something to just look out for..... :(