Could you possibly find out about some specific service this child would benefit from, and work it in with a “Did you know so and so has a son who was delayed in speech? She found this great program for him. Maybe your son would be qualified to join.” If she is not interested, than there probably isn’t much you will be able to do right now. But if she is interested, give her the contact number and let her take it from there. At this point, I would not tell her personal info about your DS.
I actually do have a nephew who had a language delay - I totally forgot! Before you all think I'm nuts, I'll remind you that my husband is from a family of 13 kids and we have a LOT of nephews and nieces. We don't see this particular nephew very often and we didn't see him at all when he was going through the language delay (didn't speak much until age 3). He gets no speech now at all and is doing well. He got OT as well and my sil feels that if he hadn't had an older brother who taught him all his social skills (this older brother is just AWESOME) that he might have been diagnosed as well. He has sensory issues but he is VERY athletic and so that totally gives him an in with friends. My thoughts? He's probably still borderline on the spectrum but is most likely one of those kids who will do just fine and will be able to "get by".
So, I guess I can use him as an example - thanks for reminding me fred! I don't want to lie - because I will have to remember that lie and Lord knows I have too much to remember already! I understand your dilemma. I know a 5 year old that hand flaps and jumps up and down on his toes when excited. The mom mad a comment that she knows he doesn't have something like autism, but I just kept quiet. He is pretty verbal, but he sure stims a lot just from my quick experiences around him. They are moving soon, but she did mention his teacher said they should look more into it. I may tell her before they move that she should look into the possibility of an ASD, but it is hard when she already told me he doesn't have something "major" like that. I have a feeling she just may be someone who thinks of autism as the severe side.
do you have any books that you have read? that might be of use to her...when I am not sure of a situation with another parent...but I see some of the same caraturistics that savannah has, then I will say...somthing like...Have you read...whatever...it may give some help to deal with the tantrum or whatever...its funny...because we can see it...mainly cause we are looking for it...or...at least know the general look of it. the other day...dh took my kids to the park...Normally it is me who talks about savannah...but...on this day...they were at the park...and this mom of the child she was playing says thats Henry...and he has aspergers syndrome...at which my husband stopped and said thats savannah...and she is being tested in october... and they started talking about the schools and what not...and through talking I have discovered several children in her class that i never would have guessed...are AS. and it may turn out that she has noticed odd things...but doesnt know where to go with it...and may be greatful that you mention it. This is just my opinion...but...if i didnt know about vannah....and someone said what they thought...i know i would be greatful...
There is a boy in my dd's ECFE class (it's a parent/child class thing in Minnesota for all families) who is clearly on the spectrum. I thought the mom knew this. The boy is exceptionally clingy to mom, has had several meltdowns in the three classes we've attended. One was when he walked away from playing with some toys and another little boy came over and started playing with the same toys. This boy (who is 3 1/2) just LOST it. And it was a meltdown, not a tantrum. He is not speaking much and does not have sentences. He has some sensory issues (hands over ears when others are singing) that I have seen.
Yesterday, I was talking to the teachers about my dd - who is having some issues adjusting to pre-school. This mom comes over and asks me if she is verbal. At which point, my dd asks me a long question - which answered this mom's question. She said - Oh, she'll be fine. My son isn't speaking in sentences and everyone tells me he'll be fine. That a lot of our family were late talkers. Anyway, she goes on in this vein. I said, well my oldest has some social issues and it is something we really have to keep an eye out for my daughter. She keeps telling me dd will be fine, that her son is fine. I was floored. From how she treated him and how patient she was - I thought she KNEW her son has autism.
Now, I go around diagnosing kids a lot - but this one was SO absolutely clear to me, it was not even a question.
I would approach the pre-school teacher about it - but she and I aren't getting along right now over my daughter - so that won't work. I'm reluctant to tell this new mom about my son because I haven't shared his diagnosis with ANYONE in our area except the school. I just don't have a good feel for the community and how they will respond yet - we just moved here 4 months ago. That is the tack I would have taken otherwise. But, this is a small town and gossip travels quickly. I have worked hard at preserving my son's privacy so that when he gets to the point where we tell him about his diagnosis, it will then be his choice whether or not to tell others.
Anyway, anyone have any thoughts as to what to do? This child is totally missing out on so many services he could be getting!
I don't know how to deal with other parent's denial. It's so awkward toMy son was not language or speech delayed is the only thing. That would make it easier to broach the subject. I could talk about some people I know whose children were speech and language delayed, I suppose. He does have fine motor issues. I already mentioned that he has some social issues.
I don't know - this is hard. I am going to be in this class with them until Christmas and this is a small town so I have to tread lightly...
Tough one! I still like Kathy's idear. Just say it was your nephew that was language delayed or something. Let her know that the school will due a free assessment and provide therapies, and it couldn't hurt, might help sorta kinda.You do not have to share the diagnosis. You could say that your son isIf you are unwilling to share your son's diagnosis with this little community, in my opinion, you'd be unwise to share your opinion...no matter how roundabout you try to do it...with this woman.
She may completely deny it, and run around telling all your new community that you are some psycho witch who's hinting to her that her kids is autistic, while it is obvious to anyone who knows this woman's child that he is the one with social issues, not hers. If you are concerned about small town mentalities, then that is a red flag right there for me. You could be taken out of context, misconstrued, and demonized to a certain extent.
You asked for opinions, so please do not shoot me! I think you could be playing with fire. It is not like she is your best friend, it is not like there are not teachers for her childe who could suggest a "speech assessment", etc.
Sometimes you have to look out for your own family first. I'd avoid the topic unless she brought it up. I know you want to help her kid, but at what expense to you and your family?
LeAnne - BANG!
No, seriously - that is EXACTLY why I am worried about saying anything to her. You hit the nail on the head!
Micki - yeah, ECFE was not exactly good about giving me any feedback about ds either. It was his pre-school teacher (private) that suggested we get an eval. I send a donation every year to that school (she is the director as well as a teacher). She said it was hard to tell me as she wasn't sure how I would take it. I thought she was very brave to call me and tell me (although I would have preferred a face-to-face conversation - but with the phone call I could have tears streaming down my face and she didn't see it). I even told her in that conversation how brave I thought she was to call and that I was very grateful she had.
However, since ECFE in our old town knew about my ds, they did keep a watchful eye on my dd for me. The lead teacher was educated about autism (we took an integrated ECFE class that had 4 kids with special needs so there were at least 2 teachers in the room that had knowledge of autism). Although she was very quiet in the class, she did participate and did fine. Not very interactive with the other kids, but they weren't overly concerned about that. If they could get her just one-on-one with another child she would play - I think she is just intimidated by large group settings. We have the same issues in pre-school this year, but she plays very well on playdates and with all of the neighborhood kids.
Anyway, I may just focus on the speech thing. I am DEFINITELY not bringing up my son's issues with her! But, I think encouraging her to get help for speech might not be bad - first of all, I'm not referring to my kids so she can take my advice with a grain of salt.
Sigh. I wish the world was listening less to Jenny McCarthy and getting more of the straight scoop!
IMHO, don't say a word.
Based on what you described in your post, she is not only in denial, but she's proactively making excuses (i.e. "my child will be fine - we're a family of late talkers). Just based on how you are describing what she is saying, I can't imagine a scenario in which she doesn't get majorly defensive if you brought it up. Getting into an argument does no one any good. And if you were compelled to broach the subject, I think the only way you could do so with any credibility whatsoever is to admit your own child's dx, which you say you are not comfortable doing. That all being said, my vote is to keep quiet unless asked directly for your opinion. If she should say to you "do you think I should be worried that my child isn't talking?" Then you say "yes" and go from there.
I totally applaud your good intentions here. If you and this woman should develop a friendship than it might be a different story, but having a casual acquantance drop a diagnosis on your head when you're clearly not ready to hear it is not a sceario that is likely to generate a "thanks so much for telling me" reaction.
My personal opinion... YES... I think you should say something to the parent! Its the child's best interest that matters. Sounds like he needs some intervetion here. Even if she HATES you for it and swears and you up and down its going to make her think and probably make her start researching more. IMO, don't say anything at all.i am on the same boat as you, except it's a friend mine.
She stated to me that her 2yo is not speaking, and lacks emotion. She then told me she thought maybe he had OCD because he lines up all of his toys and freaks when they are moved. She said he has several paci's in his crib and every morning they are lined up perfectly. I suspected he was on the spectrum and lightly brought up Grant but she didn't seem to connect
Okay - AGAIN. I am NOT going to tell this mom her child has autism. BTDT and I know better!
I think this is a much different issue than a dermatologist and a mole. We are taking a class with our kids and the focus is talking about our kids. Yes, she was trying to reassure me, but she also seemed to be seeking reassurance about her son. I can tell she is concerned but trying to cover it. But again, I am NOT about to tell her outright that her son has autism. I don't think I should even hint at it at this point. But as others have said, maybe broaching the speech angle and just mentioning that my nephew had speech issues too and the mom thought that getting him into speech right away was the best thing she had ever done. And that she also figured that if they didn't find that he needed help that it wouldn't have hurt to get the eval. Maybe not quite that strong - but I'm capable of doing it tactfully - I've done this before and I am a former social worker. While I'm not always tactful here, I definitely am when talking to people about these kind of issues.
I don't equate the two comments either. But, I do feel like she is in a very subtle way asking if what others are saying is right - you would have had to be there, I guess. I'm really pretty good at reading body language and facial expressions (and actually, my ds is as well - one reason he got a PDD-NOS diagnosis instead of AS or autism) as well as tone of voice. But, I don't know her very well and I am not going to rush into things. However, in an ECFE class - you do get to know the parents pretty well pretty quickly. I would not consider her a complete stranger. That being said, I do have to be with her in this class until December and possibly until May. Obviously, I'm not going to do something to alienate her for the rest of the time.
sunflowers - I think we need to agree to disagree. We've already gone through the whole Dr. Greenspan issue and I know you are still dealing with the change in diagnosis. There are such subtle differences between a presentation of regulatory disorder and autism that I completely understand why your OT would think that - not that it's okay for her to diagnose. It's not okay for me to diagnose either since I don't have my license in this state. I think you were taking that literally and that is not how I meant it. I "diagnose" in my head all the time - I'm in a class with other kids and see how a child is acting and I observe over time and I "diagnose" in my head. I overhear parents talking about stuff their kid is doing that seems strange and I "diagnose". I'm not always right on those. But the ones I have seen repeatedly - I haven't been proven wrong yet. With a few kids, it was years before someone pointed it out to the parent - but then the parent came to me for questions about AS or PDD-NOS. Only one child that I knew fairly well hasn't gotten a diagnosis yet and that is the mom that I lost as a friend almost 3 years ago over the issue. Her son is now 4 1/2. Actually, I should say that I don't know if he's gotten a diagnosis - I'm sure the mom would never come to me to admit that he got one. It was obvious to everyone in our class - even people who didn't know much about autism. And, I was close friends with her and we were comparing how similar our kids were (except hers wasn't talking at all). Then, we started looking into an autism diagnosis and the mom kept drawing differences between our kids and trying to paint my ds as more severe than her son (the opposite is true, actually). I learned from that experience and have never been that forthright with anyone again.
Anyway, I am intelligent enough and hopefully, caring enough, to know not to approach her directly at this time. If I appeared to be just going out and randomly telling people their child has autism - that is not what I meant. I don't share it with anyone - I just do it in my head and also perhaps discuss it with close friends who also have kids on the spectrum.
Wow, I thank everyone for their input. But, perhaps this subject should be closed for now. I'm not going to tell her about autism period - unless she asks me directly (like if somehow she finds out I'm a former social worker). I may encourage her to get a speech eval, I'll maybe listen more to what she says for a few more weeks first to get a better read on her.
I'll keep you guys posted!
Please don't take what I'm saying personally. I know you mean well. I know you were not about to tell this mom her child is ASD. And I dx in my head too and I have absolutely nothing at all that would qualify me to do so. You clearly have more authority than I do. I think lots of people wonder and have these thoughts whenever they see quirks in another child.Thanks. Everyone is different in how they perceive things. Most parents obviously do not want to hear something is "different" about their child. However, sometimes if you hint subtly, it can prompt the parent to do a little research and/or prompt them to think more about the issue. I've successfully done this with several parents. Even ones I just happened to sit next to at tumbling class. This, however, was in our old town - when I knew we were moving and I was more open about my ds' diagnosis. So, a person might ask which one was my son and I would point him out. One time, a mom said she was worried that her daughter just wasn't catching on to the class. So, I told her that my ds had a hard time at first too and a lot of kids do. We started talking, she started mentioning several red flags. So, I just mentioned in passing (not in the context of her daughter) that I wondered if she could tell that my ds had autism. She was floored. I said that with him, it's pretty subtle. So, she asked me more about autism. I told her what I know - in general terms. She asked how you get a child checked for it. I gave her several different suggestions and even wrote them down with my e-mail address on it. She didn't e-mail me, but she did follow up with me every single class after. We were both moving soon after - so we lost touch. But, I think she was on the right road.
I know how to do this if I share my ds' diagnosis - but it's much harder if I'm not willing to. I just feel so bad for this little boy - he needs help in learning how to express his emotions and he needs speech therapy at a minimum. And I know this mom is going to be kicking herself for listening to her family. I definitely get the sense that she doesn't fully believe them because she said her family tells her this over and over - so she is definitely questioning.
Thanks sunflowers - I'm glad we got it straightened out!
I used this approach ,Your ds is so social,(she came back with "yes ,but he is having trouble making friends at school).Then I would say "My ds has the same problem",the dr said alot of kids with asd have that problem though.
So your son doesn't like change ,Zach has that too,for him its his asd.Its very common.
I kept this up over a few days ,saying one comment here and there,my friend finally asked for some Info on asd ,I never had to come right out and tell her.
Good luck,but as others said if she is in denial, tread lightly.
Linda
Good luck Snoop. I think I'd rather tell someone and them be mad at me then wonder 'what if' for the rest of time...maybe she won't agree w/ you or seek out help, but maybe she just needed someone else to agree with her. I mean, look how many of us got the run around from our pediatricians saying that they're a late bloomer, or a boy - so talking will come later...yada yada... When we still lived in MN my ds went to ecfe groups every week from 6
Well, I'm not a physician but I do have my MSW and if I got my license in this state - well, technically I would be qualified to diagnose. That isn't the point. I would in no way tell her that her child has autism. I wouldn't even suggest it. I'm looking for a roundabout way to bring up getting early intervention involved. I'm sorry that wasn't clear in my initial post.
I think she is in denial, but I also think she is operating on the basis of what everyone in her life is telling her - which apparently must be misinformation. I have to say that if my child wasn't speaking anywhere close to sentences at 3 1/2 - I would be freaking out! And she has said enough things about her older son who is in 1st grade that lead me to believe he has some issues - perhaps not as severe, but some issues.
I have enough experience in dealing with things like this (lost one friend over it for a long time) that I know better than just to come up to her and say, "I think your son has autism". But honestly, at our first class, I almost went up to her and asked her what her son's diagnosis was - it is THAT severe. Something stopped me (thank goodness). She must have some natural instincts because she was handling completely appropriately and doing all the right things. I had to be taught some of the stuff she was doing - so that is why I assumed her son had services. Maybe I'm just a dork!
Anyway, she seems to be concerned enough to jump in and offer advice on my daughter (which I didn't mind, i just didn't agree with it) so I have a feeling she might talk to me again about it next week. If she does, I may use the opportunity to bring up my nephew to her regarding speech. I think I'll stick to speech. Oh! And my sil's a speech pathologist - HOW am I not remembering these things? I'll put it down to stress I guess. I also don't see my sil much either!
Thanks everyone!
It's a tough thing to do - she might be denying it to herself...thus her not doing anything or she might seriously not know it. Payne had a lot of red flags, but other than going to the pediatrician I had no clue...no idea about Child Find, etc. I honestly don't know how I would react to someone bringing up the possibility either...until I came to terms with it...KWIM? I have a friend who's son totally exhibits autistic like behaviors. She is a teacher so it surprises me that she brushes it off. I can see it and so does my husband. He's almost 3 and has no speech only gibberish, he makes almost no eye contact and bites on his hand when his mother leaves I was scared he would bite his hand off. I want to mention to her to have him evaluated but it's sensitive my son is not even 2 yet and had a diagnoses of mild pdd nos, hopefully now he'll get a mountain of services and hopefully fall off the spectrum. As for my friend how do you tell someone that? It's obvoius to me her son is autistic