Motor delays RANT Thread | Autism PDD
I have heard that too, that it's not part of autism. Sharlets consultant has been working with autistic kids for 11 years and has done a phd in autism. she told me that the low muscle tone and poor gross motor tends to be a high functioning thing usually and is most definitely part of a particular presentation of autism.
Sharlet is not classed as high functioning at the moment but this particular woman is convinced she will present that way when she is older. I'm not so sure and don't know what to believe.
OK I am officially opening this for anyone who wants to rant about motor delays!
I will start -
My son still cannot push hard enough on his toothbrush to brush his own teeth well - will I be helping him until he is a teenager? 
My guy just found the strength to write letters and his name, not very well but something that resembles letters and his name - and now they've hit him with writing sentences! So of course I went from being ecstatic about his name and small words to frustrated looking at choppy, unreadable sentences
Gage wants to do sports all of a sudden - we have already tried soccer and T-ball and gymnastics, all of them went horribly! He can't run at all without falling and is unable to catch things that are thrown at him. He hated gymnastics because he was scared of all the apparatuses. But now he keeps asking about playing sports again because he likes P.E. at school (the teacher's aid helps him at school though). So, guess who is searching for something he can try even though I know he wont be able to do it very well.. *sigh*
ok, who is next!Yep, We have major physical delays here. Didn't sit till 1 Walk 17 mo. etc etc. His strenghth and endurance are really low. He held onto the ropes on a swing for a full minute yesterday at o.t. This was huge. Trouble with walking, stairs, and anything that takes any upper body or arm strenghth. He has been getting private pt and ot for about 4 months now and I can notice a difference. Was a big issue at the iep meeting yesterday. Ethan is only 3.7 so I have quite some time before he will be asking about sports. Must be frustrating. How about swimming. Our high school has an indoor pool with lots of open family swim, and one on one lessons for special needs kids. Pretty reasonable. Ethan is afraid of water, but I hope maybe next year. We are battling his M.A. right now to get an adaptive stroller. He really can't walk far before noodling out and I can't carry him much anymore. Closing in on 50 lbs. They just returned the original request with all kinds of ridiculous questions. I would love to have them come and spend a day with me.
ME!
Sharlet is too weak to walk up and down stairs without help and it is even difficult for her to negotiate small slopes on the ground. She can't play on play equipment without constant lifting and help and constantly someone right there to keep her safe (5 times more than my 1 year old)
Her autism consultant who will be overseeing her schooling when she starts next year says her motor skills are so bad that she doubts she will be able to write and that they probably wont even bother trying to teach her but instead put her straight to a laptop Her running is in the words of her podiatrist :all oer the place" and she is having to have her legs cast to make a full orthotic because her legs and ankles are so weak they are in all the wrong positions and they say her bones will develop all wrong
I still don't really get why her motor skills and muscle tone are soo bad, how does autism cause that?? When I had her at the doctor recently she asked because of how bad Sharlet seemed physically whether or not she had mild CP!!
I don't think she will do well in PE next year thats for sure!
Edited to add Sharlet sat up at 1 and walked at 2
My son has a hard time walking up stairs. He leans backwards and does all kinds of strange things that has almost made us both fall. The OT and PT say it has to do with knowing where his body is in space.
He has home work that usually involve him making circles and coping his name. Even hand over hand it is almost impossible because he wants to cover the whole page with circles. And for some reason the look more like squares merged with triangles.
He is 6 and has the gross motor skill of a 2 year old.
He can run. But only will when he is not supposed to.
I don't think it is a part of the autism, just seems to pop up with more autistic kids than the general population. Who knows about any of this. I hope someday they figure it all out. Feeling pretty frustrated myself today. Well, off to p.t. Thanks for listening to my rant.
Right now, they don't have this as part of a diagnostic criteria. But, most kids I know with autism also have some motor delays. Not all - but way over the majority. My ds has low muscle tone in his upper body and has a really hard time catching and throwing. But 2 years of PT REALLY helped with everything but that. We also did tumbling - but were lucky enough to have a fantastic instructor who had worked with kids on the spectrum for years. She worked really hard at mainstreaming ALL the kids with autism into regular classes and was successful at doing that with almost all of them.
Fine motor delays are another issue. Ds didn't qualify for OT at school last year and he just HATED his OT that we did privately - so by the end of last school year, we stopped. I knew we were moving and I just couldn't fight another battle. I am going to ask for him to be re-evaluated for OT at his new school. They are sending home papers for him to write his name every night and while he can write his name - he can't do it how they want - which is in between the lines. We worked for about 15 minutes on this a few nights ago and he was getting very frustrated.
Autism is a neurological condition and since we don't know a whole lot about how the brain works, I would bet they some day come up with a category of autism that also includes fine/gross motor delays.
[QUOTE=snoopywoman]Autism is a neurological condition and since we don't know a whole lot about how the brain works, I would bet they some day come up with a category of autism that also includes fine/gross motor delays.[/QUOTE]
This makes alot of sense. I believe they will also.
My son didn't walk until he was 2. Stairs up was mastered at 3 1/2 and down wasn't until 5. He has loose tone=always makes me want to put him in gymnastics! He has always done what he could with what he has, so I can't complain about it! We just keep working on it!I find it unlikely that the low muscle tone & gross & fine motor delay is unrelated to the Autism. I don't really know any child with any form of Autism that doesn't have these problems. I thought someone posted that they heard it was neurological. I think it may be sort of like a mild "palsy" of some sort that they haven't identified yet. I thought motor delays were related to autism also. Isn't autism a neurological condition also?foxl - Yup. Once ds gets something, he REALLY gets it. For instance in swim lessons - he went about 8 months without learning a thing (part of this was the Y instructor's fault and mine for not realizing the instructor was pretty much letting him do what he wanted
Swimming is great for developing upper-body strength and so that is why we are so avidly pursuing it. But private lessons are almost essential as most of our kids will get lost in a group class. It is hugely expensive (trust me, we've shelled out over 00 on it so far in the last year and a half!) and I'm still trying to get our health care reimbursement account to let us claim that and get some of our money back. No success so far - even though the PMR doctor wrote a note basically prescribing swim lessons!
[QUOTE=foxl]Nana, T did not want to TOUCH a crayon or ANYTHING, till she hit about 5.5. Then WHAM! It was ALL she would do.
A strong feature of ASDs is the tendency to learn or acquire skills in bursts .... (Also, NOT IN diagnostic criteria).
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That's interesting... sometimes I think Cooper doesn't want to do something because he knows he won't be good at it... like talking... some days he is more hesitant about saying "go" when I try to prompt him (I won't start the golf cart, which he loves to ride, until I count 1, 2, 3... and he says "Go")... the days he shows hesitation, I notice he can't say "go" clearly... it comes out as "doe", "no", or "ner"... and I can see it in his eyes that he knows it's not right. Bless His Heart, he tries and that's all I can ask.
Oh, no question, they are a part of autism!
NOTICE, Sensory Integration Disorder ALSO is not a part of the diagnostic criteria? I MEAN. I would say 99% of dd's symptoms are directly due to SID and APD.
I know what you mean about them starting sentences so quickly ... but it seems like that is the way they teach now. And ... it does add more meaning and a POINT to learning to read and write. T is responding well to reading sentences. She is not super-quick at it, but happy with her own progress at least.
GS was a preemie, born @ 32 weeks. He didn't walk until 22 months. He has mild CP, still wears AFOs.
He can step up curbs unassisted, but he still cannot go up steps unassisted. He can climb a ladder unassisted.
He will not walk very far before turning around to be picked up and carried. Most of the time we try to make him walk a little farther before giving in.
He can't ride a tricycle, but we're practicing.
He can't run very well, though he runs all the time... does that make sense???
He can't color, but really doesn't seem interested in trying...
A strong feature of ASDs is the tendency to learn or acquire skills in bursts .... (Also, NOT IN diagnostic criteria).
Our psychologist said it is very common to for children with autism to have low muscle tone resulting in motor delays and also motor planning issues that add to the problem. My son has low muscle tone. The gross motor delays are catching up this year, but we have had to work very hard. Swimming has been great for him and the playground as well. It took a long time of us taking him to the playground before he became interested to try things out. He still struggles significantly with fine motor skills. My J 6 yr. old can't peddle a baby bike or any bike. She fall all the time. Still fall down the stairs too. She learned to write this summer and took off. Thank goodness, There is an overlap between OT and PT issues. But this does not just apply to autism, which is why it is not part of the official diagnostic criteria. MANY children with other neurobiological disorders show the same tendencies -- either too much laxity in the muscles or too much stiffness. It's best to get at least a yearly OT eval and PT eval. Some of these issues are outgrown eventually. They call it PERVASIVE developmental disorders for a reason -- our kids are delayed pervasively, that is, in ALL areas. It's obvious when a child is delayed in some physical way because we all can SEE the issue. Not so clear with the brain/mind. Of course, the LAST thing we want is to add OT or PT delays OFFICIALLY to the diagnostic criteria. That will shut many asd kids out (not all have these delays, tho most do) and will include lots of kids with other developmental disorders who are not also autistic. Best tactic is to test for physical delays separately and also ask for adaptive PE.Hope - how about swimming?I've been wondering about this, actually. Jason just recently figured out how to walk up the stairs (still holding the wall for support), he can't jump, runs awkwardly, and can't catch a ball. They say his gross motor is a strength, and I don't really understand that, when my two year old does all of these things except catching a ball consistently. (He can catch big ones, sort of, lol)
His fine motor seems okay (can work a remote, can grasp a spoon, though he doesn't use it), but he can't really scribble with a crayon or pencil...it's all straight lines. No loops, or anything like that, and he's got a "fisty" grasp, not a pincher.
He's gonna have once a month consult (basically) with an OT, but no PT, and I don't know if I can talk his ped into writing a script for PT and OT privately.
Should I even worry about it?
All I meant to say was that since the SD didn't feel they needed to provide PT, did that mean this is an issue I should be concerned with? From what I understand, I will be able to get PT privately, and I'm not interested in forcing the issue with the SD because whatever motor skills impairment he has are relatively mild compared with other ASD kids.
I still feel this is something he would benefit from on at least a short-term basis, but I don't know enough about this to judge. Which is what I was trying to ask about.
[QUOTE=snoopywoman]I don't see why motor delays couldn't be added as something that is often seen - although I don't think they do that in the DSM. Or, since you only have to have a certain number of symptoms out of several more - maybe it could be included?
I know it's certainly listed on most lists that talk about red flags for autism.
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I think they aren't adding it because the SD sees his gross motor skills as adequate and age-appropriate.
Maybe the ped will feel differently.
Harking back to mathematical logic, if A, then B does not equal if B then A. It is certainly true that MOST kids on the autism spectrum have some OT or PT concerns because these areas are affected when the neurological system is affected. However, having these issues doesn't equal ASD. If a child has ASD, he is LIKELY to have OT or PT issues (if A then B) but if he has OT or PT issues, it is not likely that he has ASD (if B then A). These things are considered "co-morbid," meaning that they are likely to occur together but one does not actually have anything to do with the other. The same holds true for adhd. It's nearly universal in asd, but it is not currently consider part of the disorder, just something that OFTEN happens with the disorder. I know plenty of kids who are CLEARLY autistic, some very low functioning and nonverbal, who are quite athletic and NEVER had ANY physical issues. I'd hate to see the "experts" hold back on diagnosing those kids because they can skate well or sketch beautifully. Of course, it would make a LOT of sense for school to ALWAYS test for OT or PT issues when a child is found to have a developmental disability. Around here, at least in preschool, that happens nearly universally. Legally, the schools are supposed to evaluate "in all areas of suspected disability," so testing for OT or PT issues really should go without saying, even if a child just has LD or ADHD or something like that. I would hate to see the community of autism evaluators hamstrung by issues that are not CENTRAL to autism.
My dd is in the 1st percentile for fine motor. She is also delayed for gross motor (5 years old and can't pedal a trike)I don't see why motor delays couldn't be added as something that is often seen - although I don't think they do that in the DSM. Or, since you only have to have a certain number of symptoms out of several more - maybe it could be included?
I know it's certainly listed on most lists that talk about red flags for autism.
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