Bathtime...AGAIN! | Autism PDD
I believe the first thing I really started posting about was the bedtime ritual. Well...it has been back now for a while with a vengeance.
To get BB to go upstairs we have to start dropping hints that this is the way we want to go. If we push it...he will not go and may in fact go the other way. Before bath I get everything ready upstairs (or DW does) pre-bath:
The shower curtain is removed (or we play "where is BB" for 20-30 minutes). His pre-bath books are laid out. Usually five of them. His after-bath books are hidden (or it is 20 books before and after bath). His PJs are put in the bathroom along with the sleep diaper. The scale is removed from the bathroom along with the magazines (which he will make you page through in their entirety during the post-bath potty-time). The carpet is removed from in front of the bath (or he will wrap himself in it). The valence has been removed, but that does not come back anymore...we gave up on trying to have a pretty bathroom upstairs. The humidifier is unplugged (or he will turn it on and play in the steam).
I am sure I am leaving something out here, but...
So, we get upstairs, we read the books in his room and hopefully he does not find the other ones or go for the bookshelf which I leave filled with books. We go into the bathroom and we play "spider." "spider" is pretty much cuddling with him on the floor. This can go on for a while. Once in the bath he usually has to be redirected to not splash. After getting out it is to the potty, then brush teeth then bedroom for more books (which I have switched out during the bath) and then bed (with a binky that I have completely cut the rubber off of, but he still wants to sleep with the piece of plastic...so be it for now eh?
The main problems come in the transitions into bath from "spider" and out of bath when it is done. Sometimes, there can be trouble getting BB to cut it with the books if he finds a lot. Sometimes he will specifically say that he wants 10 or twenty and he has a total fit if he is not placated. I usually can find a way around this.
The whole process takes between 45-60 minutes. This is down from 90 less than a year ago, but still too long I think.
Odder still...he gives DW a MUCH harder time than I. In the past week I have had to go and intervene every night giving me no break from the process or I am babysitting it and coaching her from downstairs.
So...thoughts? I am really just kind of venting.
Much more to say about it, but...that is the core.
Thank you MJ. It just makes it so rough because while one of us is doing this the other is doing whatever else needs to be done around the house (ie, when it is my night to do bath it is DW's night to do the dishes, lunches and clean-up the play area and vice-versa). We usually do not get done until near to 9 and I will get the treadmill in every night I can plus lift on nights I am off bath duty and DW usually has paperwork so...we don't get upstairs to chill until 9:30-every night! You can see how this might be exhausting and not conducive to...well...anything in the evenings...even a movie much less a little of the ole wink, wink, nudge nudge, say...no...MORE!
I have though about timers and we have used them in the past, but he often turns them into toys. He loves the time-timer...that is the problem...he loves it. If it is something that makes a beeping noise he will want it as well. If it is digital...same.
As for PECS, we have spoken about this as it pertains to some of the "rituals," but really...this is a LONG sequence (DW thinks I have scared the two new babysitters we have, but they were really thankful that I walked them through the whole thing and of course...he does not do it to them!) Also...he has the language. He just took the ABLLS and is actually advanced for his age in receptive! I am starting to wonder if he is being bratty or not?
Also, last night, again...Mom could not get him in, but I could. Why? He is definitely Daddy's boy (Mom hates when I say that...and rightfully so), but still...he has to listen to Mom better.
We have the easiest nights when it is just he and I and I find that most perplexing.
While it may not seem like progress, you have progressed. You DID cut it down 30 - 45 minutes and that took a LONG time. I think you need to just keep going in that direction.
Have you tried visual charts with BB ala PECS style? How about a timer? Anthony's ABA therapists used a sand timer with him for breaks when they were having a hard time with him transitioning from breaks back to work. It worked wonders because it was so visual for him. They would watch him reference it while on break to see how much time he had left.
Cam - you're doing a great job!
Have you tried picture cards? What I've learned from my dd's preschool is to have a daily schedule to help her transition and to focus. I apologize if this is old news to you but I'll explain what we do:I set up the daily schedule picture cards and dd checks her schedule. She removes a card to the "finished" envelope when she's done with an activity, and then puts the next activity next to the "time" card. It helps her see what is coming and for her to feel like she has a little control. It also helps me keep on track since she knows exactly what is going to happen on a particular day, there are no excuses. So she gets up in the morning and I say "A, what's next? Time to check your schedule!" and we do that all day. If she's having a hard time finishing something to move onto the next thing we say "books are finished (maybe after a timer goes off), it's time for pajamas" and if she has a fit I'll give her a choice to focus her attention on the next activity "A's choice! Which pajamas, the blue or the pink ones?" or something like that. (And if she still throws a fit about the pajamas, which she often does, I'll tell her the choice is to put on a pair or go to bed naked, which she hates, so she usually puts on the pajamas and then we transition into bed!)
Also, recently I set up a reward chart for her...chores include getting dressed by herself, being quiet at naptime, not screaming "no" at mommy. She already digs the stickers she puts up next to a completed activity and she'll get a small treat at the end of the day, I think the pleasure of the stickers and the anticipation of a treat at the end of the day motivate her and also help with transitions.
At first I was miffed at the school for doing the schedule thing, I didn't want dd to become reliant on picture cards. But, it's been pretty amazing at how well she responds to them. Also just the simple statements like "finished" and "choice!" work like magic, I don't know why. You may do this already though, sorry if my response isn't helpful. I can't think of anything else that has helped my dd with transitions. If you want a picture of our schedule for reference let me know.
Swanky...this is indeed the PECS system you are describing. No apology necessary! I'd rather you say it and describe it. Many might not be aware of this system.
We have never used it for the full bath rituals.
Perhaps we ought to consider it.
The thing is that I had been told that it is very useful for children who are not too verbal. BB is VERY verbal. (knock on wood).
The reward chart, straight up Behavior Mod. That is a possible idea. Though it would have to be immediate gratification and something he really wants a lot.
Camusa
CONGRATS on cutting it down by so much - that is a real achievement - I know you are very anti TV but is there a way that his evening 30 minutes of TV are right AFTER bath time ?
BTW totally OT - but at one p[oint in time you were looking for a new career related to the Spectrum - did you ever do anything about it ?
My dd is also very verbal, part of the reason I was less than happy with the school introducing the picture schedule. I didn't want her to be forced to rely on them and then have problems mainstreaming without the cards into kindergarten which is my goal for her. She does not use them to communicate like other non-verbal or "a little bit verbal" children in her class. They have however been extremely useful in a schedule to help with transitions. She's a very visual thinker and I think just seeing what is coming next is really helpful for her. I guess they act like flashcards for her, she loves flashcards.I thought it would have to be an immediate gratification for the reward chart too but the stickers seem to serve that purpose. The treat at the end of the day is a few bits of crystallized ginger. At the end of the week if her chart is full of stickers I'm thinking of a bigger treat, like a new book or trip to the library or something like that.
My 4yo is a daddy's girl and my 2yo is a major mommy's girl. I think dh and dd are two peas in a pod and seem to get each other better than dd and I do, but I guess that's part of life, everyone is different and has their preferences. Not that I have to like that in my own dd, but what am I going to do? :)
I'm going to go in another direction here...
Do you think that BB can tolerate baths? Does he have a sensory
problem with them? Honestly, it sounds like he's really sucking you guys
into his rituals, and kind of running the show. For me, I've made a point
of eliminating rituals wherever possible, to keep Donny more flexible. It's
paid off. While I'm the first to admit Don has a lot of problems, that
rigidity so characteristic of ASD is NOT one them. For us, that's really
important, as I want Don to be able to "go with the flow" somewhat, and
for our lifestyle to be portable. We go on trips, he goes to his Grandpa's
overnight, we visit different places, etc., and I'm just not willing or
interested to have 3 pages of written routines and to carry a bunch of
stuff with me. When we go away overnight with Don, he packs what a
typical kid would - clothes, PJs, toiletries, and sometimes he gets to bring
his favorite teddy.
Anyway, have you thought about just NOT letting BB have his routine? If
you do a social story with visuals about what bathtime will look like on
YOUR terms, he should understand it. He's still small enough that you
can physically insist that he have a bath, right? And, you can reward him
for behaving nicely. A good reward for BB might be that, if he gets
through bathtime cooperatively, he gets to pick a story after. He'd
definitely blow a fit the first few times, but if you're matter of fact and
just keep on, he'll soon realize you mean business.
Really, it's a personal thing. If it's not important to you to have a quick,
no-fuss, easily transferred to other places bathing routine, then just
ignore me
For me and my family, bathtime and other basic hygiene
routines are non-negotiables. Long "fancy" baths with bubbles, stories,
and toys are a special treat we only pull out sometimes (like when Donny
is escalated they're a good calm down and a great way to get him out of
my hair for half an hour)
Kajoli: His 30 minutes of TV are right when he gets home from school. I think we would have a MAJOR meltdown if we tried to break right now as it is his decompression time and time for DW who usually picks him up. Also, the TV is downstairs and his bedroom upstairs. I think we would have a whole new fight on our hands...trying to get him up to bed afterwards. In addition, I love reading to him before bed and would like that to be part of our bedtime scheme always. It is a great way to connect and be intimate as well as good for him...and he loves it :) I just won't read 20 freakin' books every night before bed (not even counting what we read downstairs!).
Swanky: The sticker chart might work. I will mention this to DW. She would love the ginger as well being that one of her Masters is in Traditional Chinese Medicine. The larger goal at the end of the week...I don't think he would get that yet. He does not really seem to understand time that well though I think this is a function of his age. If I were to tell him, "You get a gold star here and you get a new book at the end of the week" I am afraid he would not understand something like that. It would have to be immediately and the sticker that he gets to place on the board may be just the right thing. Thank you for the thought!
I don't think my dd gets the reward at the end of the week just yet either, it's still new and we have not gone through a week yet. I was just going to spring it on her "look you have a chart full of stickers, great job!" and offer her an end-of-the-week treat. But maybe I'll wait until she's older and she can anticipate it better. The ginger at the end of the day works just fine for us now!BTW, your son is too cute. Every time I see is picture in your signature it makes me smile. Cam,
I didn't read the other posts...he is making his "routine" his convenience and stalling with it. With Payne I tell him that it's time to get up (we do bathing in the morning before school) go take his jammies off, go potty , take his meds...then we get in the shower ( wash hair M,W,F - rotate weekend days) and he has a schedule of this. It works wonderfully. Close the door so cold isn't an issue...make sure the towels are there and ready for when he gets out...that's Payne's only real peeve. Cold. Start rewarding at first...then wean away from that.
ETA - when he is stalling I remind him that he could've had 10 min to play cars, but he's taking away from that....I use the timer on the microwave so he can't play w/ it - those get broken to easily
I also think cutting the routine in half is amazing!
Sometimes I find that the rituals themselves can become a kind of trap,
though. Kiddos sometimes get very rigid about doing the things that we
do everyday. i think he's stalling, too.
Our bathtime starts at 7, and lights out at 8, so it takes an hour here,
too--It's tolerable because our rituals are kind of loose now, there's alot
to it.
Bath starts runnung at 7, we play with a game or toy while we wait, then
bath toothbrushing, lotion, jammies, 1 or 2 books, then Nighty night. I
try really hard not to add any "regular" songs or games or silliness
because I find he kind of gets addicted to them and wants them over and
over. So while I leave the structure of bathtime there, so he knows what
to expect--I have consciously tried to mix it up around the structure (am
I making any sense?)
Don't know if that helps. Just sharin' what goes on at my house.
I think it's great that you've been able to cut the time in half! That is great progress. But I hear you about not setlling down until 9:30. Dh and I have the same drill in our house - he has kids in the bath while I'm making lunches for school - I get the kids in pjs and comb their hair while he loads the dishwasher - he supervises teeth brushing while I throw landry in. Then we each take a kid and do books. Then we spend 20 - 30 minutes picking up the house. Then we start getting ready to work out.... I rarely get to bed before midnight.
Similar to Donny's mom, we have tried not to ever let anything in our house get too routine. We mix it up as much as possible. The one routine we did have was C liked to go to bed with a sippy cup (of course that meant R wound up with a drink as well.) This is clearly C's "comfort object." Well, he was wetting the bed every night and I was just sick of it. My dh went out of town for 5 days and after the 2nd day of up in the middle of the night with wet sheets I just decided that I was done. The next day I told the boys that I spoke to their doctor and the doctor said it wasn't good to go to bed with a cup so no drinks at night. I cut them off cold turkey. Bedtime was hell for 3 days and they simply got over it. This was last year. Dh and I were shocked at how quickly they got over it.
What do you do when you are away from home? How does he bathe at other people's houses? Does he bathe every single night?
someone may have already suggested this but have you tried to put "spider" after the bath...as a reward for doing so good? Sounds like he doesn't want to take a bath because he's having too much fun playing and then when he gets into the bath he gets comfortable there which can be very common. It might take a couple of days to get him used to a new routine but i may end up being more benificial in the long run. Just some thoughts.
Karrie
Can you set the alarm clock in his room to start playing his favorite sleep CD at a certain time, like while he is still in the tub? Have zero idea whether this would be a good motivator/transition thing or not, but I do think removing the "play" aspect of the bedtime routine could be a good move.
We don't read bedtime stories, only allow the same cuddly sleeping animal, and use Norah Jones' first CD to get them in there! They love Norah!
Keep pushing! And good luck!
Just a thought ... but have you tried showers?
I tried it with my guy, and it works! He prefers showers now much more to baths ... the water filling up the bath I believe scared him, and the shower is much quieter.
Not to mention faster.
We do showers...baths when he asks for one...or is REALLY grimy.
Yes ... MUCH faster ... plus I always say to the boys "mommy's going to take a quick shower - be good!" before I get in.
So now "quick shower" is ok with Nick. If mommy takes a "quick shower", then Nick can take a "quick shower".
Hey .... whatever works!
You've gotten lots of good advice, & I want to applaud you for being quitepossibly the most patient father on earth!
Also, glad that the
routine has shortened, even though I know you're wanting to get it
shorter.
I know with our dd, lately I've seen her 'interfere' in order to delay things
she is anxious about. She's never been a big fan of bathtime, so that's
something she'll always delay (via running away from bathroom, tantrum,
etc. major sensory issue w/ bath--some help: getting bath all set up
before she goes into bathroom, so water running sound doesn't bother
ears, earplugs so water in ears doesn't bother her, etc. etc.). With
bedtime lately, the rituals & routines are rather extensive (school started
recently). It's possible he is trying to delay the inevitable (bath & then
bedtime). Look into those alternatives like soothing & calming bath
(California Baby makes great stuff, perfect for sensitive skin), weighted
blanket, etc.
We give in to a lot of dd's rituals (to keep the peace here!)...BUT the
biggest help is her PECS. She has a daily schedule, and then a.m. & p.m.
charts, as well as PECS for the bath & also brushing teeth. I posted them
on here a few weeks back so you can get the idea. It's not that she needs
PECS to communicate, it's that it gives her a visual cue & prepares her for
what's ahead. I NEVER would have thought these things would make such
a difference, but for dd they have helped A LOT.
G'luck!!
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