Thank you very much. That makes it much clearer. It is used for those whose symptoms are not easily "pegged". My daughter does fit into some of the criteria for AS but does also have a speech delay. So I guess that's why she got that diagnosis. [QUOTE=snoopywoman]
Marksmom - maybe I'm being overly optimistic as to how ds will do as an adult. He seems to be doing really well right now and is able to be all-day in a mainstream classroom with no assistance except he is pulled out of his room for rest time to finish his lunch and he will get social skills/RDI two times a week for half an hour. He got tons of intervention from age 4 until now (the last two years basically) and now we are paring it down.
Maybe I should start another thread - but what kinds of things do you think your son will need help with as an adult?
[/QUOTE]I didn't realize that. My daughter does have trouble in all three areas but just not very severely, so would that mean that she was misdiagnosed? Or does it depend on severity?[/QUOTE]
PDD-NOS isn't about severity, it's about anything that doesn't fit in the other categories. So it covers people who have the traits just not enough of them or not strongly enough, and it also covers people who are so severely impaired by some other condition that they're not capable of displaying all the traits, and a whole lot of other people too. (For instance, people who fit the AS criteria and not the autism criteria but who had a speech delay.)I haven't heard of it. But, I would take it to mean that the child didn't have as much "involvement" with issues that are those that generally apply to a child with classic autism. Which is the same as high-functioning autism. Personally, I don't really care for either term - although I use HFA quite a bit because that is what is understood and I don't want people to get terrified (sad but true) when I say he has autism. I usually say he has a mild form of autism and is very high-functioning and VERY verbal. I hate to have to qualify - but I think otherwise people will be expecting a child who is non-verbal, bangs his head, etc.
BTW, yes PDD-NOS is on the autism spectrum. Perhaps someone is trying to make a different term, but I doubt it will catch on!
Has anyone heard of PDD-NOS being described this way? My daughter has mild PDD-NOS and a relative of mine said she heard this was a way to describe such a diagnosis. It's confusing me. I thought PDD-NOS was high-functioning (which my daughter is). Or does it mean "not really on the spectrum"? I still thought PDD-NOS was on the autism spectrum.
This awhole spectrum thing is confusing.
Under the "Newbies" thread that is close to the top of the first page (and it remains there) - there on the first page - scroll down and read the DSM-IV criteria for diagnosing autism. There is no diagnosis of mild HFA. HFA is NOT A diagnosis. Your child must have been given a diagnosis of autism. Our dev ped told us that our son was PDD-NOS with a tendency toward HFA but that is not the official diagnosis. His official diagnosis is PDD-NOS. He was saying that he tended more toward autism than Asperger's, even though he is very verbal and never had a language delay and is very bright. He has a theory (don't they all!) that kids with HFA tend to do better on nonverbal tasks and kids with Asperger's do better with verbal tasks. My ds clearly does better with nonverbal tasks.
Anyway, please look up this info. It is confusing, but there are several links on the newbies page that should help clear it up!
PDD?NOS covers the whole spectrum
PDDs refer to a broader group of neurobiological conditions, known as autistic spectrum disorders, that are characterized by delayed development of communication and social skills.
The Five Types of PDD(1) Autistic Disorder. Autistic Disorder, sometimes referred to as early infantile autism or childhood autism, is four times more common in boys than in girls. Children with Autistic Disorder have a moderate to severe range of communication, socialization, and behavior problems. Many children with autism also have mental retardation. The DSM-IV criteria by which Autistic Disorder is diagnosed are presented below.
Diagnostic Criteria for Autistic Disorder A. A total of six (or more) items from (1), (2), and (3), with at least two from (1), and one each from (2) and (3):
(b) failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level (c) a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people (e.g., by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest) (d) lack of social or emotional reciprocity
(b) in individuals with adequate speech, marked impairment in the ability to initiate or sustain a conversation with others (c) stereotyped and repetitive use of language or idiosyncratic language (d) lack of varied, spontaneous make-believe play or social imitative play appropriate to developmental level
(b) apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals (c) stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g., hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements) (d) persistent preoccupation with parts of objects B. Delays or abnormal functioning in at least one of the following areas, with onset prior to age 3 years: (1) social interaction, (2) language as used in social communication, or (3) symbolic or imaginative play.
C. The disturbance is not better accounted for by Rett's Disorder or Childhood Disintegrative Disorder. (APA, 1994, pp. 70-71) (Reprinted with permission from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition. Copyright 1994 American Psychiatric Association.) (2) Rett's Disorder. Rett's Disorder, also known as Rett Syndrome, is diagnosed primarily in females. In children with Rett's Disorder, development proceeds in an apparently normal fashion over the first 6 to 18 months at which point parents notice a change in their child's behavior and some regression or loss of abilities, especially in gross motor skills such as walking and moving. This is followed by an obvious loss in abilities such as speech, reasoning, and hand use. The repetition of certain meaningless gestures or movements is an important clue to diagnosing Rett's Disorder; these gestures typically consist of constant hand-wringing or hand-washing (Moeschler, Gibbs, & Graham 1990). The diagnostic criteria for Rett's Disorder as set forth in the DSM-IV appear below. Diagnostic Criteria for Rett's Disorder A. All of the following:
(2) apparently normal psychomotor development through the first 5 months after birth (3) normal head circumference at birth B. Onset of all of the following after the period of normal development
(2) loss of previously acquired purposeful hand skills between ages 5 and 30 months with the subsequent development of stereotyped hand movements (e.g., hand-wringing or hand washing) (3) loss of social engagement early in the course (although often social interaction develops later) (4) appearance of poorly coordinated gait or trunk movements (5) severely impaired expressive and receptive language development with severe psychomotor retardation. (APA, 1994, pp. 72-73) (Reprinted with permission from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition. Copyright 1994 American Psychiatric Association.) (3) Childhood Disintegrative Disorder. Childhood Disintegrative Disorder, an extremely rare disorder, is a clearly apparent regression in multiple areas of functioning (such as the ability to move, bladder and bowel control, and social and language skills) following a period of at least 2 years of apparently normal development. By definition, Childhood Disintegrative Disorder can only be diagnosed if the symptoms are preceded by at least 2 years of normal development and the onset of decline is prior to age 10 (American Psychiatric Association, 1994). DSM-IV criteria are presented below. Diagnostic Criteria for Childhood Disintegrative Disorder A. Apparently normal development for at least the first 2 years after birth as manifested by the presence of age-appropriate verbal and nonverbal communication, social relationships, play, and adaptive behavior. B. Clinically significant loss of previously acquired skills (before age 10 years) in at least two of the following areas:
(2) social skills or adaptive behavior (3) bowel or bladder control (4) play (5) motor skills C. Abnormalities of functioning in at least two of the following areas:
(2) qualitative impairments in communication (e.g., delay or lack of spoken language, inability to initiate or sustain a conversation, stereotyped and repetitive use of language, lack of varied make-believe play) (3) restricted, repetitive, and stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests, and activities, including motor stereotypes and mannerisms D. The disturbance is not better accounted for by another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or by Schizophrenia. (APA, 1994, pp. 74-75)
(Reprinted with permission from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition. Copyright 1994 American Psychiatric Association.) (4) Asperger's Disorder. Asperger's Disorder, also referred to as Asperger's or Asperger's Syndrome, is a developmental disorder characterized by a lack of social skills; difficulty with social relationships; poor coordination and poor concentration; and a restricted range of interests, but normal intelligence and adequate language skills in the areas of vocabulary and grammar. Asperger's Disorder appears to have a somewhat later onset than Autistic Disorder, or at least is recognized later. An individual with Asperger's Disorder does not possess a significant delay in language development; however, he or she may have difficulty understanding the subtleties used in conversation, such as irony and humor. Also, while many individuals with autism have mental retardation, a person with Asperger's possesses an average to above average intelligence (Autism Society of America, 1995). Asperger's is sometimes incorrectly referred to as "high-functioning autism." The diagnostic criteria for Asperger's Disorder as set forth in the DSM-IV are presented below. Diagnostic Criteria for Asperger's Disorder A. Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:
(2) failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level (3) a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people (e.g., by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest) (4) lack of social or emotional reciprocity B. Restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests, and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:
(2) apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals (3) stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g., hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements) (4) persistent preoccupation with parts of objects C. The disturbance causes clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.
D. There is no clinically significant general delay in language (e.g., single word used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by age 3 years). E. There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in the development of age-appropriate self-help skills, adaptive behavior (other than in social interaction), and curiosity about the environment in childhood. F. Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder, or Schizophrenia. (APA, 1994, p. 77) (Reprinted with permission from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition. Copyright 1994 American Psychiatric Association.) (5) Pervasive Developmental Disorder Not Otherwise Specified. Children with PDDNOS either (a) do not fully meet the criteria of symptoms clinicians use to diagnose any of the four specific types of PDD above, and/or (b) do not have the degree of impairment described in any of the above four PDD specific types. According to the DSM-IV, this category should be used "when there is a severe and pervasive impairment in the development of social interaction or verbal and nonverbal communication skills, or when stereotyped behavior, interests, and activities are present, but the criteria are not met for a specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder, Schizophrenia, Schizotypal Personality Disorder, or Avoidant Personality Disorder" (American Psychiatric Association, 1994, pp. 77-78). The Confusion of Diagnostic LabelsThe intent behind the DSM-IV is that the diagnostic criteria not be used as a checklist but, rather, as guidelines for diagnosing pervasive developmental disorders. There are no clearly established guidelines for measuring the severity of a person's symptoms. Therefore, the line between autism and PDDNOS is blurry (Boyle, 1995).
As discussed earlier, there is still some disagreement among professionals concerning the PDDNOS label. Some professionals consider "Autistic Disorder" appropriate only for those who show extreme symptoms in every one of several developmental areas related to autism. Other professionals are more comfortable with the term Autistic Disorder and use it to cover a broad range of symptoms connected with language and social dysfunction. Therefore, an individual may be diagnosed by one practitioner as having Autistic Disorder and by another practitioner as having PDDNOS (or PDD, if the practitioner is abbreviating for PDDNOS). Generally, an individual is diagnosed as having PDDNOS if he or she has some behaviors that are seen in autism but does not meet the full DSM-IV criteria for having Autistic Disorder. Despite the DSM-IV concept of Autistic Disorder and PDDNOS being two distinct types of PDD, there is clinical evidence suggesting that Autistic Disorder and PDDNOS are on a continuum (i.e., an individual with Autistic Disorder can improve and be rediagnosed as having PDDNOS, or a young child can begin with PDDNOS, develop more autistic features, and be rediagnosed as having Autistic Disorder). To add to the list of labels that parents, teachers, and others may encounter, a new classification system was recently developed by ZERO TO THREE: National Center for Infants, Toddlers, and Families (1994). Under this system, called the Diagnostic Classification of Mental Health and Developmental Disorders of Infancy and Early Childhood, the term Multisystem Developmental Disorder, or MSDD, is used to describe pervasive developmental disorders. However, amidst all this confusion, it is very important to remember that, regardless of whether a child's diagnostic label is autism, PDDNOS, or MSDD, his or her treatment is similar. shell |
Under the "Newbies" thread that is close to the top of the first page (and it remains there) - there on the first page - scroll down and read the DSM-IV criteria for diagnosing autism. There is no diagnosis of mild HFA. HFA is NOT A diagnosis. Your child must have been given a diagnosis of autism. Our dev ped told us that our son was PDD-NOS with a tendency toward HFA but that is not the official diagnosis. His official diagnosis is PDD-NOS. He was saying that he tended more toward autism than Asperger's, even though he is very verbal and never had a language delay and is very bright. He has a theory (don't they all!) that kids with HFA tend to do better on nonverbal tasks and kids with Asperger's do better with verbal tasks. My ds clearly does better with nonverbal tasks.
Anyway, please look up this info. It is confusing, but there are several links on the newbies page that should help clear it up!
[/QUOTE]
Thank you, I will check it out.
I just love it when docs get "creative," and leave us to figure out exactly what they MEAN. They don't like to talk in ICD or DSM!"low spectrum involvement" got zero hits on google. "spectrum involvement" plus autism gave only 2 google hits.
This phrase was either misheard/misremembered, or not widely used.
My son is PDD-NOS. He is high functioning, but certainly will need help some as an adult.Marksmom - maybe I'm being overly optimistic as to how ds will do as an adult. He seems to be doing really well right now and is able to be all-day in a mainstream classroom with no assistance except he is pulled out of his room for rest time to finish his lunch and he will get social skills/RDI two times a week for half an hour. He got tons of intervention from age 4 until now (the last two years basically) and now we are paring it down.
Maybe I should start another thread - but what kinds of things do you think your son will need help with as an adult?
Not all PDD-NOS are high functioning as far as I know. It just means they don't have the full triad of impairments.hello everyone
my son is pdd. it stands for ( over look the spelling Thank you very much for your responses. From whatever I have read about PDD-NOS I'd never heard it described as "low spectrum involvement" which, as a description, didn't seem to align with what I knew. I mean, I understood PDD-NOS to be an autism spectrum disorder. So if it is on the spectrum, it's not partially involved, like "sort of on the spectrum" but also at the same time "sort of not on the spectrum". That's what confused me about the "low involvement" idea, kind of like being "sort of pregnant".
I didn't realize that. My daughter does have trouble in all three areas but just not very severely, so would that mean that she was misdiagnosed? Or does it depend on severity?
Marcus' mom - That is not an actual diagnosis. That is the umbrella category for all of the types of autism. PDD-NOS is Pervasive Developmental Disorder- Not Otherwise Specified. Which is a catch-all category that doctors use when a child has some symptoms of autism but either doesn't have enough to be classified as having autism or Asperger's OR the symptoms aren't severe enough. They can have impairments in all three categories - they just may not be severe enough to qualify. My ds has a PDD-NOS diagnosis because his symptoms are not quite severe enough. It used to be that he just had 5 symptoms - now he has 6, but not severe enough to qualify as having "classic" autism.
Again, anyone can read through the "For Newbies" thread that is posted as one of the top threads (it stays there permanently) so you can get a fuller understanding.