The "smelly" kid | Autism PDD
Well if the whole family isn't clean you will have to find someone to work with the family. Maybe they need a social worker.
alls i can say is that i can bath my 3 year old and minutes later he'll be dirty again. I don't know how old this child is that your speaking of but He could just be a dirty kid.
oh and btw I am dirty because my child is dirty, just from picking him up and such i get dirty also. My son has a fascination for dirt and anything yucky sticky or even smelly. I would write up a plan to do in the shower and give it to the parents. I would give exact days and directions and leave room for them to write how it went. I would talk to your supervisor. because eventually, if they send their kid to
schoollike that, they will get reported to child/family services for neglect. A
kid has got to be clean. A supervisor at your agency with a psych liscence is
probably a mandated reporter as well. This is not just about being delicate
and having good manners. This is asituation where someone is going to
have to intervene with this family regarding grooming and hygeine
standards before DCFS is sent out to investigate.
Good luck, I am sure this matter can be handled kindly and respectfully.
I'm an in-home therapist. Showers are done in the morning supposedly, and we're there after school. They don't want us involved in showers at all, and it's not a money issue or running water issue. He did great in the shower, got in, washed up, and got out, so it's not behavioral.
The big issue is that the FAMILY isn't clean... I've worked with a few kids who came from poverty-level homes, where we were told by our supervisor that we weren't to eat anything or use the bathrooms at the homes because of the potential of getting sick from them. They're not anywhere near this, they're just dirty...and while he normally smells, he's just smelled AWFUL the last couple of weeks, and it's not a BO issue, he's filthy as well.
Ok wow lots to think about... First off how old is the kiddo? And do you run a daycare? Or do you work in a center? I would be mortified if that was my kid going to school or daycare like that. Is money an issue for the family? Do they have access to running water? I am not trying to be mean or anything just wondering. I know dd can be quite a challenge to get bathed and dressed and hair teeth brushed. I somedays make daddy do it because she is strong and I get tired of getting hit in the face and bit constanly. But I wouldn't really want toupset the parents too much. did you try to put it in a nice way that he needs attention to his personal hygenie? ANd if the parents do not respond in a positive manner I would have to say to report them to child services... Just my humble opinion. Good luck!!!!OOOOH! This is a touchy one. He has to be cleaned some kind of way. It is not heathy for him or for others around him. Telling the mom "hey your kid makes me gag" is not an option either. J/K
Maybe you could tell the mom that you would like to supervise and help the dad learn to teach the child self help skill in the shower at least 4 times per week until the child can keep himself clean independantly for atleast a month.
Or you could tell the mom that for your own health that you would like him to clean up before you come work with him.
That's strange both pshyc's that tested Daniel claimed he has a odor. He baths daily. Baths for kids are before bed and parent's get shower's in the am.
Alright folks, I've been trying to figure this out for the past couple of weeks and I just can't quite do it. One of my younger kiddoes is just plain smelly. Their house isn't the cleanest, and neither are mom and dad, but I've just sucked it up until now. A couple of weeks ago when I arrived, he smelled absolutely putrid (bad enough that I was gagging) and was filthy. I threw him in the shower, and worked with him on washing himself, body parts (had him wash body parts as I said them), and dressing/undressing (which are all therapy goals.) Mom asked me not to do showers with him again, as that was dad's job. I explained that his hair had so much gunk in ity that he was scratching himself and starting to bleed, which is why we did it to begin with, she asked that we not work on that again.
So...how do I tell her that her kid is the "smelly" kid? Working on self-help (showering) during therapy has always been what we've done with other famlies, but it's obviously not going to work here...
snoopywoman kind of explained what part of the problem is, I think it's just this family's standard. But their standard of cleanliness is not an acceptable one for any child. I know they love him, and they take care of him, but it is to the point where it will become an issue with school.
I guess what I really need to know, is how do I bring this up to her without offending? It's already something they know they should be working on, but obviously that's not happening...
Snoopywoman-we work with most kids in our program on showering, I work about 12 shifts a week, and I do showering probably during half of them. I don't think it's an issue with that, but more of an issue with her not seeing him as dirty.
Hope2-The other houses I mentioned are poverty level. They did not have the money to clean them or fix them up. The houses had mold in all rooms, and dead bugs all over the floors. One child had had ringworm on several occasions, and the other had been refered to CPS several times because he smelled so badly of urine. I grew up in poverty. My parents were both alcoholics, my father a drug addict, and neither was employed, our house was filthy and CPS was called several times. There's a difference between low-income persons and people truly living in poverty, and I agree that what I said could be seen as sterotypical, but it is true for most people living in poverty. I would never look down on those children or parents, becuase often they are doing the best they can to pull through. (sorry for the soapbox there...)
Hey hon, I know you didn't MEAN to do this because I "know" ya from the boards, but saying "poverty level" homes are dirty, get sick off the bathrooms & food, ect. is actually increasing a stereotype. The fact is that a lot of low income families and other single moms I know who make hardly ANYTHING are even MORE clean than a lot of people. I grew up in a middle class home and my mom had clutter everywhere & animals & stuff, it was gross. I am a single mom, and OK not in the poverty level but still, my kids are exceptionally clean, neat, hair fixed, ect. I myself do not always have the time to look like Kaite Holmes, but I always have a shower and hair styled even if I don't get to my makeup. We always have clean clothes, I am anal about my laundry. I clean my house constantly, although it is hard keeping up with all the toys & clutter by myself. Most people always say my house looks nice considering I have two little kids running around!I also know two parent families, like the ones you are describing, who probably make more than I do being a single mom, who are filthy and disgusting. So I don't think we should assume that it is because of their income.
AND of course I am just throwing my 2 cents out there, I still luv ya!
I think it is awesome that you care about this little guy & want him to be clean. Can you straight up tell them he is not getting clean? Can you threaten to call Child Protective Services if he isn't clean? I don't know that is a tough one. Let us know how it comes out. If my child stunk I would just lose it! If anything my kids are abnormally CLEAN
and I do not have the best income. I think it is a matter of personality rather than income. Some people just think its no big deal to be dirty, some people it makes them sick.
You don't even WANT to know about my dirty hippy friends...I do not even like bringing my kids over to play there because it is covered in dog/cat hair, old insense burner ash, knick knacks, old sage bowls, candles, old matches, cigarette butts, dead plants, clutter, DUST, and they have two incomes and make decent money and have a nice house![QUOTE=carolc8632]
alls i can say is that i can bath my 3 year old and minutes later he'll be dirty again. I don't know how old this child is that your speaking of but He could just be a dirty kid.
oh and btw I am dirty because my child is dirty, just from picking him up and such i get dirty also. My son has a fascination for dirt and anything yucky sticky or even smelly.
[/QUOTE]
I hear you - my kids can get dirty in 5 minutes as well. They are very wild boys into every sort of dirt. However, no matter how "dirty" my kids get (or me for that matter via dirt transference), they are not going to reek to the point of offending others, nor get a buildup of gunk in the hair, from just one day of being dirty. We do a lot of family camping and if my kids go 2 days without a bath, sleeping outside, in the hot summer, sweating and playing in dirt all day, they can hit the smelly and gunky hair stage, but that is after 2 full days of that! But I can't see a child who is bathed every morning with shampoo and soap getting to that state of uncleanliness in the course of a day regardless of how much they play in the dirt!
Maybe the family is "putting him in the shower" but not making sure that any soap or shampoo is used?
What an awkward situation to be in! This is the kind of thing that will negatively impact the child at school. What does your supervisor think? Do you have a written program for this child? Could personal hygiene skills be added to the program as needing to be worked on?Both our kids hated water until they took swimming lessons. Baths or shower's are not a choice here.Well, I should say that ds usually bathes daily, but sometimes still smells. It is usually when he is getting sick. I know he's getting sick because he starts smelling bad - we call it his "sick" smell. Strange, I know.
However, I have to say that I would not want a therapist supervising a bath for my son. It just feels kind of icky. I understand your impulse to do that - but as a former in-home therapist - I would not do that. Liability issues! I wouldn't want to be accused of sexual abuse. You are going to have to be careful with this situation. Because if you report this, they may very well report you for having him get in the tub and clean him without their permission.
That being said, it is a really tough situation anyway. If it is that bad, then social services may be called in. Maybe you could find out how often he bathes somehow delicately?
I just want to remind everyone that even though a child has to be clean - everyone has different standards. Some people are really neat freaks (I personally am not!) and so their measure of what is not okay may be way different from mine. For instance when I did in-home visits a co-worker of mine reported one of my families (before I took over the case) for neglect because of how messy the house was. When I talked to DHS, I told them the house WAS messy, but not unhealthy. Yes there were crayon marks on the wall. Yes, there were dirty dishes in the sink. Yes there were clothes all over the place and papers too. But, this was a recently divorced mom with FIVE kids who have never learned to help out. We worked on having all the kids have chores and help out as the mom was working 2 full-time jobs. Part of our sessions were to clean up part of the room we were in - I helped! I told DHS not to bother that this was not neglect. It was an overwhelmed mom who did not need her kids taken away. BTW, this mom went on to go through a training course, got a really good job and although her house was never spotless - it was much better! Sometimes people just need a little extra help.
However, this family sounds like they may have an attitude. I'm not sure how to approach them and I would definitely talk to your supervisor. I assume you are a mandatory reporter? If the situation is unhealthy in terms of germs, opened food, dirty diapers on the floor, etc. well then that is different. You probably have to report it. But as you know, the family may not want to work with you then after that and the kiddo will have another good person gone from his life. This is a tough one. Good luck and keep us posted!
OMG, this is really really bad, I never heard of order this bad in my life! I was giving T to many bath bec he smell bad (2-3) sometimes a day. He has really sensitive skin and the only soap Dr. allows him to use is ivory/dove. It just does NOT get rid of the smell. I bought him body spray. My mom saw him and she goes wow he is really really clean.
Again, this is a tough one. I would talk to your supervisor. You are going to offend them, I think, no matter what you say or how you say it. The mom has already made it clear that she does not want you doing this. That is why I think - that while you may do this in other homes - this mom may go off on you if you try to approach her on it. Maybe she is embarrassed, but it sounds like she is also ticked off. Maybe I'm reading more into this than there is...
You're absolutely right that if it is unhealthy, they need to work on it. Perhaps you could make a goal of, "Ds will shower at LEAST every other day using soap and shampoo and clean all of his body parts thoroughly by himself (but with supervision from dad)." How to measure this goal would be that he does not have dirt on him, he smells clean and his hair does not have gunk in it. Again, I think this will offend the mom - but you might pull in an imaginary "other person" who has told you that they found him offensive smelling and you didn't want them to get reported to social services. I would also explain that as a parent of a special needs child, they are held to higher standards (fair or not) for caring for their child. So, it's time to get ducks in a row so that if social services did come to investigate - they would find much improvement!
I would also maybe try a "one-down" approach and empathize that you know it must be extremely difficult taking care of everything around the house and also caring for a special needs child. That it can be exhausting. Maybe have a referral for a house-cleaning service, telling them that they deserve to treat themselves once in a while to having a break and having someone else do the work for them. Again, this will probably offend... It might be worth a try though! A lot of our kids do better when the house is neat and organized - I know mine does! I can SEE the difference in him when the house gets sloppy. That doesn't mean I'm always great about getting it cleaned up right away, but I am aware of the issues - I just don't always have time to fix them! Of course, I probably would if I got off the computer...
Wow, good luck on this one and keep us posted as to what happens!
Since she said that's his dad's job, I wonder if there's some resentment there -- that she feels he's not doing his share, and now "he got away with it again" because someone else couldn't stand it any more and did his job for him.
I feel very defensive when my son's teachers suggest that I haven't dressed him properly for the weather (this has happened a couple times). So I can imagine I'd feel extra defensive if they said he was downright filthy. I can thus understand this mother's reaction, and yet, I can't really imagine letting a stranger into my home without making an effort to clean up the place. Thus I find it hard to guess what she might have been thinking.
Anyhow, good luck with everything.
We've had that too a few times with under-dressing for the weather - or over-dressing depending on the season. I have to explain that it takes a little bit for ds to get used to the change in weather and he usually has some issues with changing into long sleeves or short sleeves depending on what the season is. This has gotten better though!
I hadn't thought about that piece, NorwayMom - that she may resent that the dad doesn't have to do his "job" that day. Might be something to explore with mom as to what else does dad get to do for ds? That might bring out a torrent of issues - so be ready!
JessicaO: No real advice but I admire the fact that you really care about this child and truly want to help him. It's obvious from what you've said: smells bad, and if a child's head is so covered with gunk he's scratching and bleeding then his parent's aren't bathing him. I can completely understand the need to bathe this kid so you can stand to work with him. It's not shabby clothing or income level but neglect. My dd's school is in a very low income neighborhood and these kids come to school clean so income is not an excuse. I feel so bad for this child, being dirty like that can't feel good or be good for him mentally. If this child is to ever fit into society he needs to learn to be clean. It's easy to say that you love someone but they need to actually show their child by taking care of him and tending to his needs and bathing him no matter who's job it is. It shouldn't be some power play between parents.There's a big difference between little boys who play and get dirty and little boys who are left to wallow in filth. Best of luck. A random thought, can you take the issue up with the dad? Washing appears to be his job after all...Norway, that is a really good way of thinking about it, and I could see that being what it is actually... I know there's some tension between the two on a lot of subjects, and now that you've pointed it out, that could be exactly what it is. Like I said, mom just asked, she wasn't angry or upset about it, just asked that we don't do it again (which seemed quite out of character for her, because she's always so greatful for whatever we have him work on...)
I think I'm going to start reading books with him about hygeine, he tends to want to do everything he reads about, so hopefully this will get mom and dad going too... If not, I think I'm going to talk to my supervisor there, maybe she'll have an idea (she dosent' see him often, and I know mom's just as likely if not more likely to take a suggestion from me, which is why I haven't done more than tell her what's going on.)
Kristy: I would, but I don't ever see/talk to him. He also makes me very uncomfortable (walks around in a short bathrobe w/nothing on underneath and fun stuff like that), so that's pretty much out of the question.
Thanks again everyone.
Well if a person believes nakedness is at home, I still don't think that applies if you have guests/company over - especially someone working with your son! It just sounds icky to me...
There was one other that bothered me because the client was 101 yrs old and her daughter was supposed to taking care of things for her. This woman's appartment was not too messy but everything was broken.Most of the furniture as well woman's bed was ancient and not very safe for her. There was also never enough of anything that the woman needed such as food, toilet paper and over the counter meds that she needed. I only had to go to them for a short time. What bothered me the most was that they weren't poor. I felt that the daughter didn't care to make sure her mother had everything she needed.
I wonder if the dad is sending the child in to shower and not making sure that soap and shampoo are used.
Up until recently, I wasn't able to let Quinn shower independently because he didn't use soap and shampoo if I didn't supervise him. He does a great job showering now!
he is soo proud of himself!
Many times he would come home from my ex's house and tell me that he took a shower over there or my ex would say that Q took a shower and he most of those times he didn't smell clean. My ex probably wasn't supervising him while he was in the shower.
Sorry to be on my soapbox. I hope things get resolved for you soon.
Eeewww. That makes me wonder about the dynamics of this household. That is just not appropriate and you shouldn't have to deal with having an adult male in the household going around with barely anything on. That would make me extremely uncomfortable. It makes me wonder about sexual issues as well as hygienic issues!
Oh, I would be wanting off that case, but I probably would stick with it for the child like you are. Hugs to you - and kudos for sticking in there!
[QUOTE=JessicaO]He also makes me very uncomfortable (walks around in a short bathrobe w/nothing on underneath and fun stuff like that)
[/QUOTE]
YIKES! That would make me uncomfortable as well.
I really do love the kid, he's amazing. Mom is really great too, dad just gets creepy sometimes. I HONESTLY believe with all of my heart that there are no sexual issues going on, just hygeine. I've already worked in one home where after a year I realized there were some issues going on, and trust me, if I ever even had an INKLING that there was something else going on, I would alert CPS immediately.
Thanks again guys.
Someone needs to be responsible for bathing the child. If a kid's filthy with ground in dirt then bathing isn't being done. When it potentially can cause health problems they are being negligent. This is a symptom and carries over to other areas of negligence including supervision, education, meals etc.
The parents may have some disorder themselves or organizational or coping problem. It sounds like the parents may need some self-help skills from an agency.
I would like everyone to be aware of something called "Fish Maodor Syndrome" This is a mutation in a gene,that causes this odor problem. It is also considered a metabolic disorder. The smell is excreted thru urine,sweat,gas,and other bodily secretions. Alot of times docs misdiagnose it as an ear infection,as they are peering into ear they get the smell. The smell is actually coming from the scalp. The scalp holding thousands of sweat glands,obviosly would make you think hmmm. It is usually a rotting fish smell and only gets worse with age. It is very sad. We know a family here in our twn who have an Autistic son with this disorder. The way they try to control some of this is by diet. The only thing I can remember that has a high organic chemical content is eggs. They wont even allow him cake if it has eggs in it. He takes some lttle pill as well,and I have to say they arent impressed with it. It seems to worsen for boys as they age and go thru puberty. So you can have the cleanest kid and still people will judge them. It is very ,very sad. I believe about 1 1/2 yrs. ago there was a story on dateline about this beauty queen who suffered all her childhood with it. Very sad. Thanks for listening.When I was in grade school, we had a girl in our class who smelled really bad. No one wanted to sit by her. The odd thing was, she looked clean. Her mother always did her hair and put her in pretty dresses. Looking back, I wonder if she may have had Fish Malodor Syndrome.Here's a link to the Wikipedia entry on Fish Malodor Syndrome. I had never heard of this before. It's genetic, and results in the body being unable to break down a certain dietary compound called trimethylamine.
The pill Robyn F mentioned is maybe antiobiotics to control intestinal bacteria levels. Otherwise there's a treatment that removed the scent for 85% of those tested, according to Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trimethylaminuria
Robyn, sorry I didn't get to your PM right away, I've been a bit overwhelmed today. That's an interesting syndrome, but it's definitely not a fishy smell. It's from being unwashed. But I'm glad to have heard of it, it's deffinetly something I can see myself encountering in the future. I cook with a lot of herbs. ex garlic and that does not cause skin BO. Maybe bad breath but mints take care of that. This is an interesting thread to me... 'cause my kid is called "the smelly kid"We have a constant battle getting him to wash, and he frequently smells of
urine and worse?
I think I might tell him CPS can be called because he's
so stinky... might motivate something resembling compliance.
OK just tossing out a few things to think about...
Can the cleanliness issue be a cultural thing? For instance, some cultures keep the hair greasy on purpose to prevent/treat lice. Can the strong body odor be from large amouts of certain foods he consumes? For instance, huge amounts of garlic in the diet? This may explain why the mother doesn't notice the odor or see the grime.
Also, thinking out loud, perhaps the mom doesn't see it as your role to bathe her child, so she said its the father's duty so she would not offend you?
I only bring these things up b/c I work with many patients from all sorts of backgrounds, and these are some of the things that they do.
hpcmagic- It's not a diet or cultural thing, I know that for a fact. I also know for a fact that it is supposed to be the father's role to bathe him. I think it's just the fact that he's not getting one...ech...
And he's very young, so there is NO way that he's doing them by himself, someone has to be doing them with him.
Boy oh boy, i'm just starting hot topics tonight, eh? This is what happens when one who works 65 hour weeks is on bedrest for two days.
I agree Jessica, I would NOT go there by yourself with just the father in the house especially with the bathrobe issue! OMG! Be safe, girl!I guess POVERTY poverty is something I do not have much experience with, so maybe I am naive, but can't people living in poverty still pick up dead bugs (blech!) and put them in the trash can? I realize they may have to live in cockroach infested homes with mold, but they could still pick them up right? Maybe I'm wrong? I don't get it. That's just plain gross - what if their child eats one of the dead bugs! So gross. I suppose you see a little bit of everything going into all kinds of homes like that. I guess there are families who cannot afford cleaning supplies or trash bugs, but you would think in America that these things would be available to everyone somehow
That's sad that they're not!
I don't think its too much of a hot topic, i am glad you brought it up! I think i was confusing "poverty" with lower income families or working class even. I guess there is true poverty where there isn't soap, shampoo, cleaning stuff, ect. Hope, I agree. I think they're two very different things. I think that it's sad that anyone should have to live in those kind of conditions. I always think that those are the houses that I'll end up dreading working at, but I'm so wrong. They're usually the kids and parents who need/appreciate it the most, even if they can't always show it. It works nicely that I have families who are on the upper and lower end of the income scale, it helps me to keep reality in check.
Copyright Autism-PDD.net