I think that it is common for many kids to be angels at school and devils at home. My NT son is like that. What I hear from teachers is "R is such a joy, if only all kids could be like R. So smart, so helpful, blah, blah, blah." At the first conference I looked at my dh and thought "does she have the right kid?" At home he's my smart mouthed drama queen. I talked to a psychologist about it and she said that most kids (we're talking NT here) act out more when they are home with their parents because that is where they are most comfortable and are secure enough in that loving environment to just be themselves - warts and all, and at school there is much more pressure (peer and otherwise) to conform to established social/behavioral norms.
Our psychologist also told me that it is very common for ASD kids to be the other way, higher functioning with better behaviors at home and "more autistic" at school. The rationale behind this is that school is a more stressful environment (more transitions, more demands) and stress amplifies autistic symptoms/behaviors. My ASD son does better at outside of school than in school.
Of course, every kid is different, and these are broad generalizations. I actually think the fact that your son can keep it together at school is a very good sign. It means that he is aware enough of the behavioral norms at school to refrain from throwing things, protesting, etc. That sounds very NT to me! (Not necessarily fun for you at home though.)
Thank you all soooo much for your responses!! I forget who posted about intermittent explosive disorder but thanks...I had never heard of this before. I went and read a bunch of stuff about it to include the critera and although at times Adam does seem uncontrollable I don't know to what extent is needed to get a diagnosis. He has destroyed things but not usually...mostly it's slamming doors etc...to get his point across. His toys were taken out of his room so he can't throw those anymore. He doesn't hurt or attack anyone though. I am certainly going to ask a doctor whether they think it is a possibility though so thanks for the info.
Mamajot...I know what your saying...the only difference would be that my son is like a 5 year old going through puberty and giving me dirty looks all the time...LOL SOmetimes I REALLY question if he even likes us. Even when he is not yelling or what not....he just has a stinky disposition most of the time.
Mom of twins...Let me know how it goes. I am curious to find out if it does any good...the reason being that maybe if it works then I can get his diagnosis changed back so that he will qualify for certain programs so that insurance will pay...As of right now...ABA is something i can not afford.
Holly...thanks for sharing.....I have been thinking and weighing the pros and cons of medication. As of right now he does not have any prescriptions. The thing I keep coming back to is that he behaves in school and is fine there without meds and learning fine. I need to make an appointment with a child psychologist and see what they say.
Woodsman...Thanks so much for your input...it really means so much to get your perspective on this one. Hopfully he will just grow out of it like you have. Good to know that there is an adult out there that was simular to my son and is doing so well now...thanks.
Kristys...Oh I definately get what you are saying. My oldest had behaviors at home and was just fine at school except for focusing issues anyway. Behavior was great at school though. He's pretty much NT...lol I am very thankful that all of Adam's behaviors are at home, and I do realize how rare it is. It would be so much more difficult I think if it were the other way around. There are certain Autism behaviors that are more apparent at school for Adam....he just behaves better there. At school he still video scripts, grimices, postures etc when in an uncomfortable situation. At times at school I'm sure he looks very different from the other children....It's just that he doesn't scream at everyone there...lol
Thank you all sooo much....It means so much to me that you all responded.
Karrie
heh, no problem, things changed so much, even since I was a kid, and i guess it was not that long ago, although to me it felt like an eternity, and I mean that in a good way.
I did. I screamed, kicked, and had full-fledged melt-downs ever so often as a toddler. Some came from stress, as I recall, but others happened for no real reason. For example, I remember sitting on the kitchen floor eating a can of croutons that had bacon bits with them. I only picked out the croutons and my dad said casually, "You should eat the bacon bits. They're good for you." I snapped. I screamed and cried and he said to "get me the h*** out of there, quick." (His temper only fueled the problems and made growing up with undiagnosed ASD very difficult. He was/is often verbally abusive and has terrible mood swings unprovoked....maybe I got the temper tantrums from him?)
Anyway, I do remember throwing fits in stores as well, but that was because I was taken in clothing stores when my mom knew I didn't like it.
hehe, tracii, my parents know i hate savagly going to stores, grocery, mall, clothing u name it. As soon as I was old enough to stay home they never even bothered asking, today, when I have to go to stores I shop, get everything at once (i live alone and will buy 0 worth of greoceries to last weeks). When I go shopping i very quickly get everything i want, have a list of nessissary items, quickly throw them in the cart, get in line at the check out, have all my money organized according to denomination, even change and as soon as that total pops up it takes me 5 secs to come up with exact change, i get my receip and run out the door, i beleive im one of the most efficent, quick shoppers on Earth, seriously, i cant stand it, utter tourment, but I must do it at least 1 or 2 times a mounth.Forgot to mention this - A book that I found helpful/insightful was The Inflexible Explosive Child by Ross Greene. The decision to start meds for us was about age 4y and our psych told us that we better get him eval'd with a psychiatrist for possible meds. He had started acting act in Spec ed preschool. The older he got--the worse he became towards the girls(his 3 sisters). So---to protect my family and ME---and others at school, we had no choice.Hmmm... when I was smaller, on rair occasion (generally I was good) I would have my flip about something, and usually, becaue daddy was not home, off working mom would be the one who got yelled at. During my freak out, usually in response to my sister doin something I dont want her to, or using something of mine (i flipped 1 day cause she took a sheet of paper outa my colored paper pad, I would get these pads and not ever use them, but hoard them, if they were used they were worthless) and when placed in my room or on the chair for Time out, i would scream at her. Now... I love mommy, and I wish back then I coulda been more diplomatic, but she was the boss and unfortunatly in those days (1980's) their was not much known about HFA, so instead of maby trying to make me feel better somehow, when I got mouthy, i got slapped lightly where my mouth was, instant eduatcation!!!rubyruby,
I did Aba with him over a summer when he had less functional language. It better prepared him for pre-school. His school doesn't offer ABA (if they did he wouldn't qualify) ...Our insurance although through tricare...he would not qualify for ABA or the ECHO program due to his diagnosis now. It was recently changed from Autism to PDD-NOS. HE doens't even qualify for an IEP at school anymore.
THis is the thing that I DON"T GET.....
He doesn't act this way at school. Only at home. SO if it was an inability to regulate emotion you would think it would effect him at school to?? But it hasn't so far. He is supposively an ANGEL at school. Probably because nothing there is actually HIS and he doens't mind sharing things at school because of this. Also I would imagine that he is not as comfortable at school as he is at home but that would suggest a higher social understanding...which I guess he could have. Just kinda goes against the whole lack in social thing don't you think?
Soooo basically am I dealing with a Brat here?? LOL
Just trying to think these things through. He does fine with friends. It's with ME or his DAD or his little brother. HE is ok with the baby but He can't walk yet so I would imagine that it will go on to him also when he starts playing with toys.
He now has started saying hurtful things like:
"I hate you"
"I don't want you anymore"
"GO away!! Leave me alone"
These are phrases he says to Us the parents. Things he screams at his brother is the things like "DOn't touch that" "You cant' have that" etc.
Karrie
Not preschool ... maybe middle school? My mom was a screamer, it came natural to SCREAAAM back ... but ... not like T.
Kids learn back talk younger today, too. T starts first grade next week and last night told me, "DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO!" But that is more cultural.
She does a screeechy scream, when she feels panicky-sensory-out-of-control ... I never did THAT -- not sure HOW my Mom would've reacted if I DID.
ETA: what it is -- with T, yes inability to control sensory ... and emotion ... and ALSO if the words to express herself do not come fast enough. HTH!
I Know EXACTLY what you are going through!!!
Only a handful of asd kids are what they call having disruptive,agressive and distructive behavior. It's called Intermittent Explosive Disorder. My 4yr old has it. My sons dx officially is PDD-NOS with intermittent explosive disorder. It all started @ the same time. At 18mos he started screaming and he never stoped. We call it the Dr.Jekell & Mr.Hyde syndrome to the extreem. We arent' talking about your average tantrum. He can be an angel one minute and then a spawn of satan the next. It is not based on anxiety but rather simple demands and non-compliance to the max!!! He is in 4ohrs /week of ABA with great therapist who have been working on his compliance issues since he was 2yrs old. I am very consistant as a mom and as a therapist myself. My oldest has Aspergers and is comletely different than my second boy who has always been agressive ( bitting,scratching,hitting and throwing things when provoked) . When my aspie gets angry we simply and firmly remind him his behavior will result in the standard punishment. but my other child would scream so loud that he doesn't even hear what you are taking about nor would he care. It's like he is in a rage type of zone. He get's stuck. Anyway, he is medicated ( I hate medicating children) with Risperidone .25mg. It worked like a miracle for the first 6mos but recently it has stoped working. We are going to investigate other options for him. Maybe some sort of mood stabilizer. I son't know. All I know is that if any med takes away his spunky personality I wouldn't hesitate to take him off right away. I only want the agression gone.In our autism group there are about 15 children. Only 2 of them have the consistant behavior problems that my "little lamb" has. We arn't talking about him being frustrated because of a speech delay or some sensory disfunction here. This is a separate but co-morbid issue all together. It make you look like the most inconsistant mom in the world. You look like a joke of a parent. People will say and think that you have no control over your kid and if only you followed through with discipline and be more strict he would shape up. Well, I know how to parent my children. I am a very strict and consistant mom who has been working with children who have severe behaviors. I know the drill. It doesn't work. He needs a med to help him achieve and grow. My prayers are with you. If it is truely affecting and inhibiting him to enjoy life, you may want to talk to his ped about med's.
Karrie:
I've read on here before about kids who are able to keep it together in school but can't at home.
It reminds me of the neighborhood kids. We all laugh about how our kids listen to the other parents on the block better than us. For example, if the kids are playing to rough with each other and I say "that's enough, everybody calm down" every other kid except mine will stop. Kids are more respectful of other adults.
We actually say to each other "Sue, will you tell Frankie to come here". If Sue calls him, he runs right over. If I call him, he has selective hearing. We use it to our advantage
In the same boat here too. I just hired a BCBA/child psychologist to help. She observed him for 3 hours and said that it's all about CONTROL with him. So, anyway, she's started an ABA program that deals mainly with compliance. Of course, he's compliant with all the therapists except me! Will let you know if she gives me any new advice (meeting is tomorrow). All the advice already posted is exactly what I've been doing as well. The BCBA observed my reactions to my son and said that I was doing absolutely everything right and that it could take several months for him to "get it" that I will not comply with inappropriate requesting or behaviors. Of course, this has been going on forever so I am skeptical, but will definitely post if I start seeing improvements.
My son was so bad that he was first dx'd with bipolar at 5y. That's when he started risperdal and it was great! The aggressiveness decreased. He still had moments of voilence and destructiveness---but it wasn't everyday----all day long like before the med. But then----he was also trying mood stabilizers with it. Nothing really worked well (maybe tegretol and lithium with the risperdal)--but it wasn't a cure.
We did take him off all meds at 6y and did biomedical stuff. That didn't work either. He was able to be kind of tolerable for 3 months without meds. But then it hit!! Back to everyday, over every little thing and all day long. And----it was worse then before any meds. His rages when younger were only about 30-45 min. They had gotten up to 60-90 min with 2-person restraining. After he beat up our psych for an hour--we decided he better start that risperdal agin!!
Now---at 7.5y, his rages are under control. I consider what he has now---frustration meltdowns or not being in control of situations(or getting his own way)--little tantrums.
He did have a good 45 min rage one day----it had been over a year since the last way. It was all because his sister squirted him(and that was NOT FAIR!!!------even though he had hit her over and over again with the noodles!!)
So I'm not sure if my son's rages are minimum because of meds or age or both!!
My kids have learned that screaming gets them absolutely nowhere.
When the kids make demands in a nasty way, or scream at us, or act downright unlikable, my standard response is to say in a plesant voice "You are normally such a nice boy but now you are acting really mean (or rude, etc.). You must be really tired. You need to go in your room and take a rest for 10 minutes." If they put up a fuss about "I want whatever NOW" the answer is "sorry, you need to take a break first." If the child won't go willingly, they get carried to the room kicking and screaming, placed on the bed, and locked in. (We have the doorknobs reversed on their bedroom door.)
Now that they are getting a bit older and heavier, and this behavior is MUCH less than at ages 3 - 5, priviliges are often taken away in response to bad behavior. Screaming "I want a snack now" and throwing a fit means no snack - period - until the next day.
Ironically, my ASD son ususally does a better job with compliance here than my NT son. My ASD son is naturally laid back and happy. When he gets disregulated he is no treat, but his general personality type is happy-go-lucky, go with the flow, adapt to the situation. My NT son on the other hand is my emotional, high-strung, drama queen. He's also quite the negoitiator and everything is a battle. I've used the same approach with both kids and it has worked well.
Thanks for all of your responses. I don't give in to him...just so that you all know that. I'm doing everything that everyone has suggested. Most times when I am attempting to correct the behavior eventually it end up me telling him that he is not going to talk to us this way and how it makes us feel blah blah and that he needs to go to his room if he is going to act this way. Because it will start with him demanding somehting and then I dont' give in and HE WON"T ASK NICE.....It makes him MORE angry and then eventually I'm talking my ears off telling him how it's not nice etc. SOmetimes his screaming is due to his brother touching something that he doesn't want him to touch etc. We had to remove all his toys from his room because they became a danger to him because during his fits he will throw anything. Eventually he calms down and he comes back down and then it starts all over again. Him screaming at someone...me, especially his brother etc. I am being consistant I have been...THis is why I was wondering if he will just grow out of it eventually or if it is an inability to actually controll emotion considering the diagnosis. Not that I am looking for an excuse here...I'm looking for a solution because it's been since Addison started walking...over a year now and no real results. At some point I have to consider that there has got to be another way...maybe something less traditionaL??
By the way...he has no other diagnosis's other than the spectrum diagnosis. He has been fully evaluated.
Karrie
I do understand your concern even though I probably don't have the greatest advice except for the behavior therapist maybe. I know it is frightening when they get angry and lose control, because suddenly you feel as if you have no control yourself as the parent. I memtioned before that my daughter occassionally does this. I worry a little more about her and anger issues than I do my son at this point because my daughter although she is only 9 is as big as I am and does not read social cues very well. When playing she can get extremely rough and I have to constantly keep her in check about how big she is. She could over power me easily. So I know you are looking into the future and wandering if he is always going to have this problem. Honestly, you never know. Considering you do know that he is on the spectrum, and I am talking about myself as well, we should do everything now to ensure that they have the best possible future. So maybe aba is the next step. You didn't say if your son was in aba, but I assumed you would have said that if he was. Anyway, I interested to hear more responses to this myself.My son does this. Have you tried putting him in check. When my son yells at me I tell him "You are not allowed to talk to me like that and if you want me to do something for you you will say you are sorry and then you will ask nicely. And I absolutely do not do anything for him unless he says he is sorry and ask me nicely. Alot of times he will come up and say "GET ME MILK!" And my response is "How do you ask?" And then I make him apologize for being mean before I will get the milk. Or if he is not demanding something and just being mean or yelling I advise him that he will not be playing any more of his games today until he says he is sorry and starts acting nice. He is five. Sometimes my daughter does this too, not as bad but she still tries and she will say "Well, I am just in a bad mood!" And my comment to that is, "It is okay to be in a bad mood, but it is not okay to be mean because you are in a bad mood." I don't know if you have tried this, and I don't know how bad it gets with your son. I do think behavior therapist could probably help also. So far this has worked with mine. It does concern me if this is a trait of the asd for when he gets older. It makes you want to be sure that we can do whatever we can now to get it under control. rubyruby - I do the same things as you becuase Anthony does have a tendency to sound angry when asking for something simple. I tell him he has to ask nicely or he's not getting it. He usually will then ask nicely. Not always. Sometimes he yells SORRY! I just wait him out.Karrie,
I think more than anything it is a "control" thing..Sarah couldnt stand not being in control and adversive to any demands whatsoever! She would boss us but we wouldnt do anything or respond to her unless she worded it nice and with a "please" attached to it followed by "Thank you"
She learned the hard way it was the only way she was going to get anything. Now I can just give her a "LOOK"
Good luck!
Here is a question for the Adults on the spectrum or any parents that have grown children.
Did you scream at your parents when you were little? Out of frustration or whatever. If you don't know can you ask them?
Here is an example of what I am talking about. My son screams at us all the time. He comes across like he can not stand any of us. He has a few nice moments during the day but for the most part it is all about him seeming to be angry all the time and yelling at us. It can even be something as simple as telling us to get him a towel and instead of just asking nicely it comes out sooo nasty. Does this go away? Or will he always be someone that is unlikable. (of course we love and like him so please don't take that statement the wrong way) But others if he continues to act this way will not want to be around him.
Anyone know what this is? Is it an inability to regulate emotion or something? How can I help him?
Thanks,
Karrie