I'm looking for a post that msSteelersfan posted here in 2005 that had a chart that compared lead poisioning symptoms to Autism.....It was quite remarkable actually. Still looking will post back when I find it.
Edited to add that I realize after reading this that it was Mercury poisioning that was compared...Sorry...Gosh sometimes I wonder about myself...LOL
karrie
[QUOTE=fred]
Hi Folks,
*Is there any evidence that the quantity of lead in the recalled toys is at a level where harm to the child can occur? I try to keep in mind, that when we all grew up, there was lead in the wallks of our homes, in the dust, and in car exhause, etc, not to mention our toys (I had several toys that were actually MADE of lead) - so I'm wondering if the danger here is real or if the recall is more of a technical nature - i.e. - the toys contain a slight elevation of what's allowed, and what's allowed contains a 10-fold safety factor, therefore the real danger is very slight and probably being overblown by the medias tendency to want to alarm parents. [/QUOTE]
Fred-
I have to play Devil's advocate here. Your note implies that we were all exposed to lead and we are fine. If we are really all fine, we would not need this forum. We all have kids with dev delays that are of unknown causes and one decent theory is we messed up our developmental genes, and don't know it b/c we don't use those genes as adults. I doubt lead is in the bucket of chemicals that could mess up your genes, but who knows
That being said I have not looked thru the recalls for the same reason's as above
If it were me I would get rid of any of the toys included in the recall. And that would be ALL I would do. Especially after the "Lead Police" story.
But I guess I am more accustomed to risk, having ridden around India, Guatemala, AND China, with kids not in car seats ... and in TAXIS, at that!
I don't know what to think - I think they honestly don't know enough about it. Notice that the Mayo article says the symptoms are "non-specific" and "may include" - so it doesn't necessarily present in the same way with each person. And, given that our kids often react to medicines different than the NT population and their symptomology also may be different, well it's just hard to say.
I haven't really inspected any toys and am not that concerned. Neither of my kids mouth toys (my ds rarely did this after one year of age and same with my dd). And we wash hands before every meal and snack - and both my kids wash hands for a LONG time (I'm actually working with them to SHORTEN the amount of time as washing can go on for more than a minute). So, not really worried about it - but if they mouthed toys, I might be more concerned...
The neurologist's association recommends lead testing (and a hearing test) in the event of any developmental delay, so obviously this is a mainstream test.
But I agree there's no point in panicking. It does make me mad, though, that these recalls happen *all* the time. The last ones have just gotten more attention because they're big brands.
Thanks Norway - it's why I'm asking because the girls were not screened for lead. Apparently, their neulogist didn't think that it was worth looking for (probably for reasons similar to foxl stated and because there wouldn't be much that could be done about it anyway, and given that we don't live in an old house or have other obvious risk factors, the chances of chronic exposure are vanishingly small). I agree, it is annoying that we keep hearing about these recalls. Maybe we should be targetting Wal*Mart instead of "Big Pharma" with all of the heavy metal poisoning conspiracy talk.
Yes there is hype ... but -- it is the American way, so to speak.
My youngest is actually adopted from China, from an orphanage where the levels of lead in kids coming here are consistently high.
One woman told a sordid tale of the "Lead Police," the Public Health Dept. came to her house, made her hospitalize her (recently-home) child for somewhat risky Chelation Therapy (not same as the DAN! one), test EVERY Painted surface inside and outside her house, and perform lead abatement, at her expense, to THEIR inspection and approval. Despite the fact that the REAL source of lead, ie, the porcelain made there, and the fumes from the local factory, was already removed from the child's environment.
The main concern is intelligence, with high blood levels ...
My daughter is VERY bright, learning quickly etc. So I knew I was NOT going to bring up the issue of her lead exposure.
Long story short, our Pediatrican (UNASKED!) on her first visit said, "Well she could have high lead levels, but I am not going to measure them since she has been removed from that environment. If it is high, it will simply drop gradually over the next year." Obviously he is well-informed or experienced with this issue.
Hope this adds some perspective ...
Right, but Shelley, wasn't the initial tests a DAN-nite test (mail order lab - great plains, doctors data - one of those mail order labs - ordered as by a DAN!) and the follow up a regular pediatric blood test? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Also, everyone ingests lead from the environment every day which is how it got in her :) You'd need to carefully scrutinize their definition of 'high' to find out of treatment was actually warranted, and from what I understand, the only treatment for actualy lead poisoning is chelation, but that's not indicated until the lead levels are very, very high (by mainstream docs, that is).
In 1978, the US banned use and sale of lead based paint in the US. It is well explained by the national safety board in this link.
http://www.nsc.org/library/facts/lead.htm
If toys are painted with lead paint, they are not allowed in the US by law. Baby and toddler toys are of particular concern to parents because many children tend to put their toys in their mouths and lead is toxic when injested. Kids under 6 are at the most risk because their bodies absorb up to 50% of lead injested. Adults on the other hand only absorb 8% of lead injested. We're all exposed to lead every day, however lead paint has particularly high concentrations of lead which is why it is singled out as the root of many lead poisoning issues.
If your child is under 6 and has a tendency to mouth toys and objects, I'd take this seriously. If your child is older and doesn't put toys in their mouths, I wouldn't freak out. But that's just me. A few months ago there was a recall on some particular Thomas train models. I have a zillion Thomas trains and I'm sure I have a few on the list, but I didn't bother digging through the bin because the boys are now 6, rarely play with them any more and neither one of them ever had a propensity for mouthing toys. However, if they were 3 and putting toys in their mouths all the time I would have taken the recall much more seriously and replaced the toys.
Here is a list of signs and symptoms of lead poisoning in children and adults from Mayo Clinic:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/lead-poisoning/FL00068/DSEC TION=2
Signs and symptoms in children
The signs and symptoms of lead poisoning in children are nonspecific and may include:
Signs and symptoms in adults
Although children are primarily at risk, lead poisoning is also dangerous to adults. Signs and symptoms of lead poisoning in adults may include:
Here is a link to the CDC's web page on the subject.
http://wonder.cdc.gov/wonder/prevguid/p0000029/p0000029.asp
I think there is quite a bit of hype going on here. Regualr lead tests for blood levels are really easy to do- my kids had them all the time because we lived in older houses, and if the level is found to be high or increasing, follow pediatrician's advice.
Hi Folks,
So, watching Good Morning America this morning, and they were all concerned because of the recent recalls of toys containing lead from China. They urged parents who owned any of the recalled toys to have their children's blood lead level tested. They also implied that any toy from China is suspicious whether recalled or not (due to lack of oversight). In light of this, I have some questions, but don't have time to look into them.
*Is there any evidence that the quantity of lead in the recalled toys is at a level where harm to the child can occur? I try to keep in mind, that when we all grew up, there was lead in the wallks of our homes, in the dust, and in car exhause, etc, not to mention our toys (I had several toys that were actually MADE of lead) - so I'm wondering if the danger here is real or if the recall is more of a technical nature - i.e. - the toys contain a slight elevation of what's allowed, and what's allowed contains a 10-fold safety factor, therefore the real danger is very slight and probably being overblown by the medias tendency to want to alarm parents. Information on what law/standard was exceeded by these toys and how the government came to whatever measure they determined to be the 'safe' level (i.e. what's this based on and what's the safety factor), and the degree to which these toys were in violation of that standard - would be welcome.
*Do the symptoms of acute lead poisoning mimic the symptoms of autism? Case studies and symptoms list from reliable sources would be welcome.
*Are there reliable tests that can detect body burden of the element, excluding any tests from specialty mail order labs (i.e. - standard tests from standard labs)? How is diagnosis of lead toxicity made by mainstream doctors?
*Has anyone consulted with their child's (mainstream) pediatrician or neurologist and taken advice on this issue.
*as I understand it, chelation for lead is not indicated except for extreme cases (44 micrograms/dl blood, iirc - which is very, very high (less than 10 micrograms/dl is considered 'ok', again, iirc) of lead poisoning, therefore, even if there has been an exposure, is it more than likely that the only treatment would be to allow the body to get rid of the element in its own natural way (that is, the treatment is to discover and remove the sources of exposure and monitor to ensure that the source has been removed).
I have to say that I am a little skeptical of all the concerns with lead becasue I grew up in India where most of the water pipes are made of lead - so water has lead in it - plus all the paint etc is full of lead - same with toys
and while I am sure there is Undiagnosed ASD in India it does not seem as common as here / at least it does not seem more common
Hopefully someone else will have some more useful suggestions -
That's right Kajoli, I'm skeptical too for similar reasons. Lead was everywhere in America, too, when many of us were growing up (in the pipe solder and thus the water supply, in household paints, in toys, in gasoline, etc.). My intuition is telling me that these toys are in violation of some stringent requirements for lead levels in toys with a very large safety factor making the recall more technical/legal in nature rather than a real health concern, and thus the actual danger is being overblown by the media - but I want to make sure that that's the case before I completely blow this off.