quick question - mind blindness | Autism PDD

Thanks for the help! The whole idea of theory of mind is very interesting -especially in relation to lying and deceit. I'm not really all that concerned about my son being autistic. He was observed by a psychologist when he was younger, and they felt that he was not on the spectrum. He often has some similar issues due to his SPD and speech issues -though. So I still try to keep up with some of this stuff.

It's known as the Sally-Anne test.  This Wikipedia article on it says NT children under 4 don't usually get it right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally-Anne_test

I've heard these tests are not always indicative of PDD, and in fact, some
people think they should not even be part of an eval. I think I read once that
by age 5 (?could be wrong here, if you google it, you may get the age
answer) most kids can properly answer that question. But, there are so
many factors at play...kids may be nervous during the eval, may not
understand the question, etc. So, this should not have too much weight
placed on it. A proper evaluation should be rather lengthy with no single
test outright diagnosing autism. Has your son had a PDD eval by a dev ped
or psych? Our dd was dx w/ all of your son's dx's plus a few more prior to
the autism dx. But, I do know of a few kids who have apraxia & SPD, NOT
autism. So, sometimes all of those dx's can add up to PDD, but not always. I am sorry that I don't have any answers but, I do remember the dev ped performing this test on my son.  He was two at the time.  I don't remember him telling me that it was for mind blindness.  I know that asd children are suppose to be more visual learners and to me that means that they are more observant than some one who is not autistic.  Just like on the computer.  My son just turned five.  He is a little whiz at the computer.  He can not read, however he has amazing word recognition for the computer.  Like ENTER, START, PLAY, 1, 2 3,.  He also can figure out amazingly how to make objects do certain things with other keys.  Like sometimes on a fighting game you might push "S" to kick something or "P" to hit something.  He figures this out all on his own and quickly.  I have watched him before and he knows how to download free games from nick and he can do it much quicker than myself or his Dad or his sister because he is so visual.  He does not have to read, he instantly recognizes the intsruction boxes as they flash on the screen and therefore can manipulate through the process a lot faster.  However, getting him to understand simple sentences sometimes is still a challenge.  The progress lately though is that he will say I don't understand you.  Not long ago he was not able to do that.There's this test that they often do to determine if a child has mind-blindness. Its the one with the two dolls, and one doll hides a marble in a basket. Then she leaves the room and doll #2 moves the marble to another place -say - a box. Then doll #1 comes back and they ask the child where doll #1 will look for the marble. Most kids would say in the basket, because thats where doll #1 had seen it last, and she was not in the room when doll #2 moved it. However, most autistic kids, who have mindblindness, say that doll #1 will look for the marble in the box - because they know thats where it is now. Does that sound familiar? Anyway, my question is -at what age are typical kids supposed to develop theory of mind? Would a typical almost four year be supposed to pass this test (meaning that they'd say it was in the basket)? Also, does anyone know whether mindblindness is strictly limited to ASDs or if its also related to language/speech disordered children?
Thanks,

Jen

I just did this test with my son 7.5y----he, very quickly said the wrong answer. But then when I said are you sure---he said---"wait a minute---over there" and he pointed to the right basket.

It was interesting. I did it on my 5.5y and very quickly she answered the right basket--immediately. My 11y----first said the wrong basket and caught herself and changed it to the right one.

So what does that all mean???

My husband said the wrong answer first, and then changed it a second later, too. I don't know that it really means anything. I wouldn't put too much stock in just one little test like that. The idea is that people with autism don't develop a 'theory of mind' the way an NT person would, which results in something called mindblindness. The way I understand it is that the person doesn't realize that others might have different thoughts than them, or that others don't see things exactly as they do. They tend to think that their experience is the only reality that exists. This is part of what causes some of the social difficulties associated with ASDs. I hope I explained that right. But I don't think that just because your kids gave the wrong answer to the test initially, that it means they haven't developed theory of mind. JMO.
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