spanking? | Autism PDD

I've been in tears, too so I know where you are coming from.

First off...easy stuff.....at Disney stop at guest services and get a pass to avoid long lines...basically it lets you into all the fast pass lines...HUGE support for a child that simply can't wait ( espeically in hot, hot weather)

I have never spanked my children, but pondered it as you are now. Erin has dual dx of Down syndrome & Autism and simply CAN NOT be reasoned with ( she lacks all communication at this point)....she is a very physical child and the logic would seem that a physical consequence would be in order.

But I just couldn't spank her....it would be the equvialnt of spanking a 6 month old...just makes no sense and would have only been done from anger. But I still desperately needed SOMETHING to help her understand consequneces.....for me.....a dixie cup of water on her head does the trick. She hates it.....but it doesn't hurt her in any physical way.

It grabs her attention and she knows she did wrong. Now I usually just have to warn her...."Do you want to be all wet ?" and do a "sign" I made up for her....and she stops her behavior that prompted the "threat".

School said they couldn't do the water trick because it would be considered corporal punishment......BUT.....they did improvise and use a cold pack on her face....just enough to grab her attention and get her to listen and stop.

I understand your despair......have had some very harrowing days and like you.....NO ONE in my family will babysit

I wish you some peace. Finding a consequence that works for YOU and HIM will be important.....physical consequences don't have to be a spanking......

thank you so much You sound like a very hardworking and devoted mom. It just sounds like you need a break once in a while but you're not getting any breaks at all. If nobody can handle watching him alone, would your family members or a babysitter at least watch him in your presence? I am thinking a babysitter such as a college student majoring in special education or psychology would be ideal for him.

I have to ask my son to do things many times too. What keeps me from going crazy in my repetition is to remember that he DID learn many things eventually. Sometimes it took merely 3 times of telling him and then sometimes it took hundreds of times of telling him the same thing.

Discipline must be more frustrating for ASD children because I wonder if they truly understand their wrongdoing as well as an NT child would with the same or even less discipline.

I think you are on the right track in terms of repeating yourself to him ad nauseum.If you feel the urge to spank, scoop up your baby in your arms to protect her and flee to another room with the baby to cool off. Remember that he WILL learn one day!

Your concerns about what might happen at Disney just got me wondering. Clearly, if there was greater autism awareness there would be fewer stares and glares from the public. I can't understand why Disney isn't doing anything to promote autism awareness - especially given that it is in the business of children's entertainment. I wonder if it's something we parents on this web site should begin a petition for. Disney should be a place where parents of special needs children can go to without any of the fears you speak of. Where I live a new park was built precisely for special needs children. Because the park was, from the very beginning, advertised as a park for special needs children, yet it offered spectacular toys for all children, parents of NT children who come there are VERY understanding of issues with special needs children. Disney should built a section that is more sensitive to special needs children too. Does anyone know if they have yet?No I do not spank. Partly because of my studies of spanking, and partly because I honestly find other behavior strategies work better with my kids. However, I have spanked in the past. But only about every 2 or 3 months or so if they did something REALLY dangerous, like refused to listen to me about playing with the light plug things or kept running into the street or trying to touch the stove. They can problem count the number of times they have been spanked in their lives on they fingers and toes. And now that they are older, positive and get reinforcement work SO much better for them

I think that discipline is the hardest thing to do with an autistic child. A lot of children with PDDs are sensory deficient as well, so spanking may have no effect on them (although if it is does get through to your child there may be no other way.)

After trying every physical discipline in the book I finnally realized a very loud "hey!" did the trick in a big way.

No one knows the trials you go through, and I know that if I saw a parent dealing with a child with PDD, I'd know that whatever method he or she was using was likely to be the only method that works.

You don't have to let your child continue harmful behaviors to their sibblings. It is your responsibiltiy to do whatever works to keep the rest of your family safe.

As for Disney, I live in the Orlando area and have worked for several tourist friendly companies and they've seen everything. Universal Orlando even has a special autism day geared towards parents of PDD. If you are really concerned, the "pass the line" options are really valuable

No, I have never spanked my kids, I do know what it feels like when it
seems that nothing gets through. Timeout is my suggestion, it's very
hard at first but if you are very consistent, and jump on the behavior as
soon as you see it. I suggest taking the child by the hand and briskly
walk them to their room (or another chosen room) shut the door and go
back after one min for each year of their age (so 5 min if they are 5)

I know you have probably heard it all before and tried before. But I really
think if you are consistent, your son will start to decrease the unwanted
behaviors after a few weeks. Another key is to constantly praise positive
behaviors. I would say, do not spank or yell, because these things are
attention, and for kids are often a reinforcement of the unwanted
behavior.

Also, one last thing, the unwanted behavior may increase at first, but
trust me this is a normal phase when you start timeout. It is a sign that
the timeout is getting through and they are testing you. I think this
phase should start to pass, and the behaviors should begin to decrease
after a few weeks.

Good Luck, I know it's very hard to find discipline that works, but
remember that consistency and praise are the key, and eventually when
your son is old enough (not sure how old he is) you will find reward
systems should help to increase desired behaviors and decrease
undesired ones.

Take care

Hi Angie

It's nice to know that someone else lost it tonight. I spanked my son at bedtime. It's not something that I ever do anymore. I know all the right things to do but tonight I had just had it. My son has been yelling & screaming a lot when he's unhappy & has been pretty unbearable to be around. I'm like walking on eggshells because I'm ready for him to get unhappy about something & just start screaming. It makes me crazy, and sick to my stomach to live in this house sometimes with all the chaos & screaming.

I was referred to the book "The Explosive Child" & it make sense to try & make everything around here less frustrating for him. But it seems the more I work at that he's still being completely disagreeable & I feel like what the hell am I trying so hard for?

We've had summer school teachers coming to our house to work with him because I didn't want him to endure the change of summer school-new building, new teachers, new students... And he's yelling at his teachers because he doesn't want to work, he's too tired of this... and they're so patient working with him at our kitchen table, but I'm hearing it in the other room & I want to run in there and ring his neck!!

Most of the time I am sympathetic to my son's PDD, ADD, ODD, OCD, Mixed Language Disorder. But I know in my heart that sometimes he is being a willfull, defiant, angry 6 year old brat. He probably will not even remember the spanking in the morning. But I did it & I hope you know that we are human & sometimes we're going to lose our cool & that's OK.

Does anyone here spank their child? It seems like the subject is taboo, but sometimes, I swear, it's the only thing that gets through to him. I am at my wits end at trying to make him understand that his baby sister is just a baby and he needs to stop putting his feet in her face and trying to knock her down when she is trying to crawl. It is sooooo frustrating. I can only tell him so many times, warn him, etc... finally I have to whack him on the butt for him to stop.

Will I always have to ask him to do what I want him to a million times? Forever? The despair. I want to have peace in my home, I don't want to yell, or spank, I just want him to listen. I am crying as I write this. I feel like I am going insane sometimes. oops, forgot to answer your very first question.

No, I've never spanked my son. I use positive reinforcement and it works like a charm. It may still require repetition but it works well for my son.

worked for me

I reserved it for life threatening stuff like running into the street. It terrified me that she just did it out of no where, I didnt have time to loose.

((((HUGS))))),being a parent is tough, having a asd child is very hard and you sound exhausted, spanking is a quick fix, It may work now but as your child gets older it won't,and as another poster said, it may be teaching your child that hitting when your Angry is acceptable behaviour, After all Mom does it!.

To stop unwanted behaviour in my son I started a car a day program, I got small cars ,(or whatever your child loves ,even money),and gave him one each day he did not do the bad behaviour. I only had to say CAR and the behaviour stopped.

It did work,you can do it weekly after the behaviour slows down, or increase it if you need to eg... a nickel an hour,or a Quarter for the morning ,or a sticker system, It will not work over night ,but faster than you think.

I hope this helped a little,God bless Linda

I don't think spanking as a subject is taboo. Search the word on this site and you'll come up with lots of posts about it. I've spanked in the past and it worked. For a short time. But over time, I started seeing anger in my son because of it. Typically developing kids, IMHO, see a difference between general hitting and a parent disciplining by spanking (I'm talking about a pop or two on the butt with an open hand, here, not beating or whipping or using any kind of instrument). However, I don't think most ASD kids do. Plus, many of our kids have a HIGH tolerance for pain, so there comes a point where we end up asking ourselves, "Can I actually hit my child hard enough to get through to him without crossing the line?" In my experience, spanking ended up doing more harm than good because it started creating an angry, angry boy who felt assaulted. And I just popped him on the butt a couple of times after counting to three. In fact, the counting to three thing BECAME the spanking in his mind. By hearing me count to three, he felt assaulted eventhough I ended up not laying hand on him because he learned to hop to once I got to 2, so I guess spanking him "worked." But it was at a HUGE cost. I wouldn't do it at all if I had to do it over again (he's 16 now and STILL will hop to if he hears me counting!)

The BEST discipline method for ASD (and there is research on this) is positive reinforcement. It takes training for parents to do this properly. The law provides that parent of kids with special needs MUST get parent training through the schools. OF course, it's often tough to get anyway. But there are often free lectures and demonstrations to go to if you get connected with the autisms groups in your area. Behavior Intervention Plans are not just for school. And, often, when ASD kids are little, we parents must just figure out how to keep them out of harm's way. They are often "younger" in many ways than their younger siblings and are not developmentally ready for age-appropriate demands. It's really impossible to successfully discipline a child for an action that is a result of his disability. Figuring out which behaviors are in their control and which aren't is key. Good luck.

I have on going issues with my DH about this one. I think hitting (which is
what smacking is) our son teaches him that when you are the biggest, you
get what you want by frightening and hurting people. This is exactly what
we are trying to stop... so it all seems counter-intuitive to me, but his dad
insists that sometimes it's the only thing that gets through. I don't see
evidence of it getting through.
BTW our 10 year old is 5'2" and 192.7lb and much bigger than his age
peers, never mind his little sisters...

I really did not mean to imply that anyone here was abusing their children. I
apologize if that is how it sounded. I guess I just feel strongly about
spanking kids in anger because of my line of work (with children) I've seen it
get out of hand quite quickly. I study cases all the time where otherwise
rational parents are reported to CPS, because they left a mark. Or the kid
tried to fight back and ended up with a black eye. I really wasn't trying to
implicate anyone here in this--I was just having a strong and poorly worded
response to the thread.
I'm sorry if I offended you. Truly.I think it's great that people are mentioning they've actually discussed disciplining strategies with clinicians and professionals because it shows they want so badly to do what's right for their children!

But, not all professionals, whether they be in the pediatric or mental health field, are correct or wise. To get a better idea of whether your disciplining strategy is truly thoughtful and also effective, I think it's better to see a couple of or a few professionals if you can.

Here's a case in point - we saw a child psychologist who told us that we hover too much over our son. We said we do not interfere with his play, we merely follow him around in public places such as parks and playareas to make sure he doesn't get hurt by other kids (he's very nonaggresive himself). The psychologist said we should let him go and even if another child starts to become aggressive, even physically aggressive, with him we should still not interfere in any way. I asked, "So I shouldn't even remove my son from another child who is hitting him?" She answered, "No." I asked the psychologist what lesson that teaches my son. She said that my son would learn to stand up for himself better this way. At this point, I lost my cool. I told her children are not born out of the womb with the innate ability to know concepts sharing, taking turns, keeping hands to themselves, or how to protect themselves from other aggressors. These skills must be modeled by the parents first for years before the child is able to do it himself.
This psychologist recommended 123 Magic also. I read that book and thought many ideas were fine. We count to 5 actually and we use it as a last resort though. The author of 123 Magic, himself a psychologist I belive (someone can correct me if I'm wrong), said in his book that the reason kids should always obey parents is because the parents pay the bills. When I read that I was a little amused but dismayed too. I suddenly pictured a big old unshaven, unkempt man wearing an unlaundered sleeveless undershirt with holes in it with a cigarette in his mouth saying exactly that sentence to a young child. It just sounded barbaric. I'd like to think that we parents want our children to obey us, not primarily because we pay the bills, but because we want to help them grow to be thoughtful, helpful people, because we care about their future, because we have their best interest at heart, and because we want to keep them safe.
I'm amazed at some of the pediatric professionals like the ones I mentioned who get to put the letters PhD after their name.

AS a child that got spanked regularly with belts, switches, whatever in reach...ect I am totally against it and have a kneejerk reaction when I see a child get spanked..PTSD!

I use time out consistently which she hates more than any spanking I could give her...it works for us but I make her stay as long as it takes her to calm down and say she is sorry for not good behavior...this may take 5 min..or an hour but I make her do it and her behaviors went from 2-3 tantrums a day to maybe 1-2 a week & alot short duration:) Always give warning first~make sure time out room has nothing to hurt themselve or enjoy:P ...it's supposed to be a consequence:)

I told her one time I was going to spank her bottom and she told me:

"But mama that would make my butt hurt!

Both my kids went through a "hitting phase" around age 4 and the phychologist we consulted with said spanking is the worst thing we could do, since they would both hit back. Wasn't a big deal since spanking was a rare event anyway. Positive reinforcement isn't a big motivator for us either, unless it's a BIG reinforcer. If we tell them they have to be good in order to go to the waterpark, the troops fall into line quickly. If the reward is a sticker, or a small prize, they could take it or leave it.

We follow 1-2-3 magic religiously and it works most of the time. However, we've been doing it for 3 years so it isn't an overnight miracle. If you haven't tried it, the book is only - from amazon.

I had a great 1-2-3 moment this Sunday. This kids were at a birthday party C decided to take a toddler bike and cruise down the driveway that was sloped toward the street. I said "C, please don't do that" and he ignored me. I then said "C, put the bike back" and he ignored me. He then took off and was gaining speed when I yelled "C, that's 1" then quickly "C, thats 2" and he put his feet down and skidded the bike to a halt stopping about 6 inches from the road, and then turned around and looked at me. I then said "put the bike back or time out" and he did. The other mom's were like "how did you do that?" One said she was going out that day to buy the 1-2-3 book. I told them it doen't always work that perfectly, but all were impressed.

Give it a shot and see if it works for you.

It depends on the child - mine WANTS to be around others usually. And he also feels like he is missing out on something by being stuck in his room. He does go up to his room to be alone sometimes - but really, he wants to be around. Particularly around his little sister. I realize not all of our kids are like that - each child is different. So, what works for one may not work for everyone... Time-outs do work well for ds. Even though he claims they don't! I think he's trying to use reverse psychology on me!

I was also spanked as a child (not beat...just spanked for a discipline method) and my dad also busted things when mad. He busted our toys up if we (my sister and I) fought over them or if we did not pack them up. I remember how bad this and being spanked made me feel. I sometimes did not understand....I totally saw no link between being spanked and the reason I was spanked. I felt totally crushed, unloved, scared, confused, angry, and pain of course. My self esteem was lowered and I felt I could not talk to my parents about things. For this reason I dispise spanking.

It does not work for us. I have done it very few times and each time ds only realized that I hurt him - he makes NO connection between what he did and my spanking him. This only makes him angry at me and escalates into him hitting. He almost never hits anymore and I gave it up a long time ago. I have on occasion grabbed him by the arms (not even roughly) and this sets him off. I have HAD to do this to stop him from doing something on occasion. But again, all he realizes is that I hurt him. He does realize he's done something wrong - but he doesn't feel it's "fair" for me to hurt him. Time-out has worked - but it is difficult and becoming more so as he gets older and heavier. I don't know if I can carry him to his room much longer. He doesn't get time-out very often so when he does - it's sometimes like starting all over and he often won't go to his room unless he's physically carried there.

I try to use a lot of positive reinforcement and I also take away his bedtime stories. For a first offense, he gets one story taken away. For the second he gets a second story taken away, For a third - he loses them all (he gets three stories a night if he is good). Usually we read two or three stories a night - but we have days where he has gone to bed without any as well.

I also try to use natural consequences. Yesterday, I asked him to change into swim trunks. He did and then I asked him to put his underwear and shorts into his swim bag to take along. Well, apparently only the underwear got into the bag and I didn't double-check as we were in a hurry. I realized when we got there that he hadn't packed his shorts. We had to go to grocery-shopping at SuperTarget right after lessons (it's across the street from the swim lessons place) and so ds had to wear wet swim trunks there (we dried them off somewhat with the hand dryer in the bathroom though). I'm thinking that if this happens enough he will remember to put his clothes in the bag! I used to rush to his rescue every time (like buying shorts at Target to get him home) but I'm not going to do that. In fact, he asked if we could buy some shorts at Target so he could wear them home and I told him no - that we don't have money to buy him things every time he forgets something. Tough love, I guess - but I'm hoping it works!

I know it can be incredibly frustrating. We went to a psychologist who had us track meltdowns and what the triggers were and then what our response was. So, I would have to write down what happened in the few minutes prior to a meltdown, then what my (our) response was, and how long it took ds to settle down. A pattern did emerge and we eventually went to just using time-outs and we would hold the door shut if he tried to get out. This was psychologist-sanctioned by the way! There was one time that he was in his room for an hour. That one was for hitting, kicking and biting me at the doctor's office - I carried him out of there - while also holding onto my one-year old (at the time). I put him in the car (he couldn't undo the carseat straps although it took me at least two minutes to get him strapped in). I called my dh on the way home and he was at the door waiting. He didn't say a word to ds (which is key - DON'T engage them at the time of a meltdown) and just carried him up to his room and held the door. We took turns doing this. At one point, ds screamed he had to go potty, so we had him come out to go potty. For some reason he had already stripped naked! After he went potty, dh went and physically dressed him for bed. Ds actually fell asleep about 10 minutes later. He didn't get supper (we had gotten home about 5:20 and he fell asleep on his bed around 6:30). It was AWFUL - but his behavior improved drastically after that.

I know the above sounds completely cruel - but up until that point, we were walking on eggshells and always worried that he would have a meltdown - that we would do something wrong. He was in control of US and we had NO control over him. We haven't ever had to repeat that hour-long room time - but it has been longer than 10 minutes on occasion. He still has meltdowns but they are very few and far between.

The psychologist did say to us that we needed to get control then because he was only going to get older and bigger - and thus harder to handle. We are glad we did because ds (although he is still challenging) is better able to control his emotions now. We worked on that as well while doing the time-out thing and would talk to him AFTER THE FACT about what he could have done differently. Eventually, he would sometimes go up to his room, saying that he needed a break. That's the goal - to teach them how to handle their own emotions and deal with them in more positive ways.

Hope this helps!

I have spanked my NT kids occasionally, usually in response to something dangerous (like leaping from the top shelf of the closet to the bed, yikes!), but with Jason, we have never spanked. Not ever, even before we knew anything was up with him.

It was like we KNEW it wouldn't work, and so we've never tried. The baby has gotten a few swats on the hand for trying to climb onto the stove when it was on, etc., but I don't spank until the child is old enough to link the spank with the offense, and we always warn first, and follow up with explanations as to why they were spanked.

I always tell my boys, "You always have a choice. You can choose not to obey, but that also means you choose the consequences. Good choices lead to good consequences, like a special treat, and bad choices lead to a punishment. It's up to you what happens."

It's really helped in a lot of ways, but that is because they are old enough to understand the concept. My other guys are way too young for that, so I just redirect wherever possible, and ignore stuff I think they're doing to get attention. It's tough, though, but I hate spanking (I was beat with a belt as a kid, and often for trivial offenses), so I try to use it as little as possible.

If there is danger involved or complete, screaming, and total revolt, then yes, I spank. This happens maybe 5 times per year.

I warn the boys very clearly that they will be spanked if they continue. Then, if they don't stop, I say "okay, its time for a spanking. Mom is teaching you NOT to have bad behavior." I bend the kid over my knee while saying this, then utter" This is a spanking. One......two......three." And whack - one solid, hard slap on the butt.

By the way, the first developmental pediatrician that ever diagnosed Cole asked us what we did for discipline. We said it depends on the instance...verbal redirection, a clear reprimand, or a spanking. We said that time-outs didn't seem to do much.

The doc said GOOD! Do not do time outs with Cole because it is NOT punishment for him. He simply goes off into lala land mentally and is happy as a clam. We do use timeouts for Jack because it works, and occasionally put both of them in time out for show, but Cole doesn't mind it.

The only thing I'm going to add to this debate, besides the fact that I am
against spanking myself, is that if you are using spanking as a consistent
and understandable consequence for certain behaviors, that is one thing.
But, if you are spanking because "youv'e lost it", I think that is quite another
thing and borders on abusive behavior. [QUOTE=LeAnne C]

[/QUOTE]

My DS NOW hates a timeout more than almost ANYTHING. When we got him he was two and spanking was THE ONLY thing that worked. Sometimes I (not my husband) will still have to spank, to get his attention.

I could see definitely see an ASD kid not responding to timeout but using the time to withdraw, happily.

I don't think spanking is taboo either. I think from the age when a child understands the word no (about 8 months) until they develop language, spanking is sometimes the only thing that works. I usually try redirection first, but kids test from an early age, and you have to esablish your role quick, or you will end up on supernanny.

All that being said, it doesn't work for a child on the spectrum. They don't naturally devolop as NT kids do, so while I was ignorant to that with my son at first, I quickly stopped spanking him. Redirection or ignoring worked best for tantrums, and positive renforcement works better now that he is older. It is a fine line between our kids acting up for a medical, sensory, or behavioral issue, so I would rule the first two out first. My son only acts really bad when he is starting to get sick.

I wish you luck, and if we are all honest, we all lose it sometimes. Don't fell like a failure, although I would encourage you to explain to your child you did something out of anger and aplogize whether you think they understand it or not. I think too many of us parents can't admit we aren't supermom and simply show an example of an apology. Lots of hugs.

I used to spank my son. I stopped several years ago. He is to old to spank. It would temporarally get him to behave but I am not sure if it was worth it.

These days spanking is frowned on by many people. It was hard for me not to spank because I was always spanked as a child when I misbehaved. For me that proved (IMO) it is a learned behavior. My parents were just doing what they felt was right. I am not really for spanking but I am not totally against it.

Karrie

I have used it. Infrequently and for situations when other discipline is IGNORED.

And it works. Then.

The thing is to avoid escalating to using it first instead of less-physical forms of discipline. But sometimes it is the only thing that gets their attention.

I have tryed it all...Spanking doesnt work with Savannah at all...and just leaves us bith more frustrated.With my Nt daughter it worked like a charm, to the point where now all you have to say is do you need a spank and she stops although that may be a fear thing. ..I share your seniment about just wanting him to listen...cause I live it on a daily basis. I was going to ask...How old is your son? Savannah is 4 and doesnt hit so much now, but when she was 2 and 3 she was Awful, and I spent many days Crying because I couldnt handle her, I had someone tell me one time that I needed to call Super Nanny to sort out my family. Now, they seem quite well adjusted, and Happy, I know its hard but hang in there.

I am not trying to say anyone is bad for spanking or anything but it is something I am STRONGLY AGAINST and it is just plain ridiculous to think it is the best thing to do for any kid, let alone one with an ASD. Someone said, "teaches him that when you are the biggest, you get what you want by frightening and hurting." MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY!!!! I try to teach Ali that hitting is wrong and only used as a last resort to get away from someone trying to hurt you intentionally. My biggest method of discipline is redirection and sometimes time out.

I would just caution that anyone who spanks or does the dixie cup thing that you be VERY careful who you tell this to. We, as parents of kids with special needs, are under closer scrutiny and social services are more likely to be called in for a parent of a child with special needs doing something like that than on a parent of an NT child. Not necessarily fair (in our eyes) but our kids are more vulnerable and are seen as needing more protection in the eyes of social services - which I think we all do want our kids protected. They just need more education in terms of what we go through with our kids though!

I don't have any other suggestions as to what to do - I'm sorry! But, I stopped a social services worker in her tracks when I asked her for suggestions on this subject one time. I was helping a friend who had had social services called on her for installing a lock on the outside of her son's door (this was recommended to her and to me by a licensed psychologist). I blatantly asked this worker what SHE would recommend for helping keep the child AND the family safe when the child goes into a meltdown and starts hitting, biting, etc. I told her I had my MSW and years of experience in the foster care system, plus having done in-home family therapy and I couldn't come up with anything - so I wondered what she would recommend? Wow, imagine that - she couldn't come up with anything! But, she said what my friend did was unacceptable. It was something about fire code. The amazing thing is that this child's room was RIGHT off the living room and my friend was never more than 5 feet from her son's door - but this way she didn't have to hold onto the doorknob to keep him away from the other kids. He was about 7 at the time and not exactly a small kid. If there was a fire, she would have just unlocked it and gotten him out! And yes of course, she would have thought to do that!

Anyway, I'm not saying not to do it - just be careful who you tell and that they don't take it in the wrong way. My friend was cleared of any wrongdoing - but still!

I was spanked as a child, belts, hands, keys, whatever dad could get his hands on - wooden spoons, too. I hated it, but I know now he did it out of anger and frustration, and didn't know any better. It was usually for not listening to him, or talking back. I DO remember why I got the belt. I was rude and disrespectful. I hated him growing up - used to call him names, and this went on until I was about 17 years old and finally cut up all his belts into little pieces, called the cops on him one time, and begged my mom to divorce him. My father is a different man now. He gave his life to God and does not have the same temper he used to. He is a Christian man, and I thank God I never retaliated in any way that I'd regret forever. I do love him. He is a good dad, loves his grandkids, and would never hurt them.

That said, I do not spank my child just because I've lost it, as someone posted. I do spank him when nothing else works. When I say I've lost it, I am referring to the fact that I have the most patience for my child, but even I lose my patience with him sometimes. I do not put myself on the same plain as my father, for the way he disciplined me could be constituted as abuse. He hit me out of anger and frustration, and that is wrong.

I do admit, spanking while angry can get out of hand, and since my autistic son has a high tolerance for pain, he usually laughs when I smack him on the butt, which really annoys me. So the question remains, how do I get him to listen?

I've tried time out, but he doesn't seem affected by it. As one post mentioned, he goes off into lala land and I have to remind him why I put him there in the first place. I am ready to try the dixie cup of water thing... that might work.

any other suggestions?

Oh, yeah - we do 123 too, but i didn't know there was a book on it! Works like a charm!We do 3-2-1! Zero is thus always a finite endpoint!I'm glad I found this post....we have trouble with our dd (who is 2). The trouble is that nothing seems to "get through" to her. She tunes us out. Raising your voice doesnt work, Time Out is a joke with her, sternly speaking to her does nothing. Honestly, the only thing that will make her stop doing whatever it is that you need her not to do is to spank her. Not a beating or anything, but a small slap on the leg. It gets her attention. I hate to do it, though, but honestly, nothing else gets her attention. Somedays I just want to pull my hair out!

I "could" debate on everything everyone has said on this subject--but I won't.

My experience....I spanked my NT older girls. It worked very well. I continued to spank with my ASD son. It didn't work. We tried everything with him and nothing ever worked. Luckily he is older now and language skills increased---so now--instead of punishment---we use alot of rewards for "good" behavior. Bad behavior--we do still punish for in the form of time-outs (depending on what happened). If it was a behavior that was brought on by over-stimulation--then its a "calming-down" type time-out. Alot--is grounding form the only thing he has interest in---the Xbox!! It kills him!

But when he was little---NOTHING worked.

No, we don't spank. We use positive reinforcement and natural consequences.

I remember when I was a kid and got spanked a couple times for more serious infractions. I supposed it might have helped reinforce the lesson, but really, I was just trying to figure out how to lessen the blow. First I tried "if I don't cry, maybe Dad will give up." Wrong. Next time I knew, "if I cry right away, he'll stop right away." Right. LOL.

Good luck with everything.

This is an interesting thread, because I think it really demonstrates bot hthe range of effectiveness on our kids (NT AND ASD), and the range of opinion among both the educated "experts," and the parents (with a range of education) on this topic.

And I agree with Snoopy -- be careful what you tell people and who sees you sign more controversial means of discipline!

A coworker of mine was VERY PROUD that she corrected a man for chewing out his (school-age) son in the mall ... even AFTER he replied, "You don't know what you are talking about, my son is Special Needs." It was her intention to report him to DFS, in fact. for VERBAL ABUSE. I do not recall what he said that set her off, but ...

I have seen anonymous polls BTW that indicate that somewhere on the order of 80% of parents spank, at times.

We went to a course on positive discipline offered by a fantastic child psychologist in our area. She doesn't have a private practice, she only lectures around here. The course was once a week for four weeks! She said to us that spanking will deter the behavior, but only around the person who has the power to punish. She told us that studies show that children who get spanked will repeat their behavior elsewhere such as in schools.

But I bet if parents did feel there was a better alternative, they'd do it. I bet nobody likes to do it.

I wasn't spanked and my son was never either. But I know when our kids don't listen it can be very very frustrating. My eyes have actually welled up with tears at times because I felt so frustrated with my son. I didn't want to spank but nothing else was working either! The positive discipline class I attended gave me many many strategies to use with my son...and most of them actually worked. :)

I don't know...there's just something about spanking a child already struggling with and suffering from a neurological disorder that makes me not want to do it. I feel sorry for our children, whether they be high functioning or not. Life is already so hard for them and they don't understand alot of things.

That child psychologist is publishing a book on positive discipline. I tell you her course is fantastic! Check out her web site

http://www.parentingplaygroups.com/sunflowers39282.832962963

We also do positive reinforcement - don't know if its the same. Need to paste your link in.

When we ask the boys to stop doing something and they do stop, we immediately say Thanks, Cole! Thanks for stopping! or Much better, Jack! Thank you! We've done this since before they could walk.

I pasted it in but it's still not showing up as a link?

I think the point is that if you spank as a main punishment, you are more likely to fly off the handle and spank. If you talk first to your kids, you may fly off the handle and scream. If you put your kids in time out, you may fly off the handle and grab their arm. The point is we all lose it sometimes, but it shouldn't be an everyday occurance and we should apologize for it.

Our kids need to know we can apologize for our mistakes to, and they get to see us handle it better the next time.

"Our kids need to know we can apologize for our mistakes to, and they get to see us handle it better the next time."

YOU ARE SOOOOOO RIGHT! I read a psychologist's article about discipline and he mentioned this. I make sure I apologize to Ali if I ever over react, raise my voice, or anything that requires an apology. She is very sweet and says, "that's okay Mommy, we're still friends."

I do vote with the people who feel that spanking only teaches our kids that hitting is okay and that if you are bigger, you get to be in control. That isn't a lesson I want either of my kids to learn. I realized this a few years ago and stopped doing anything physical.

However, the other day my ds was just NOT listening to anything and it was one of those "We REALLY need to go because we are going to be late to swim lessons" (which are VERY expensive and they do NOT give you extra time if you are late and you cannot make it up). I pushed him (not hard) toward his swim trunks because he was pretending he couldn't see them (he looked at them and smiled and then said he couldn't see them - you'd have to know him to know that he absolutely saw them). So, I pointed at them and pushed him toward them. Well, he fell (I TRULY didn't push him hard - it was one of those quirks of fate) and then screamed that I had hurt him. I told him I was sorry if he got hurt, but I didn't push him hard and he fell on his own. I made sure he was okay and then said that the car was leaving in 2 minutes with or without him. FINALLY, that got him motivated and he got the swim trunks on!

Anyway, it just reiterated to me that even if I hurt him BY ACCIDENT - he doesn't connect it to being a result of his actions. He only knows he is hurt and that I somehow did it! That's something we're going to have to work on... Maybe I will make another thread about this later... Or if someone else wants to - feel free!

I have been known to pop my son on the bottom when he goes for something dangerous, but he gets a confused look on his face, so I don't do it anymore. But I do raise my voice so he knows I mean business. I grew up in a home where hitting as discipline was a part of life and it was a nightmare.

I did not have time to raed this long thread but saw the title - WOW - I hope we are not talking about spanking ASD children, who already are NOT NORMAL....If your child has ANY level of MR, spanking will only make this WORSE.

i must say, discipline became less physical compaired to the time of my father, then me and now these younger kids. My father used to get whipped with a belt, mine would spank and kick me and now days for some reason thats shunned in favor of ?????.

Im not a parent, but i do know what i responded too. Im not advocating violence, but sometimes spanking is the only thing that came thru to me, made me think 2X b4 doing that again...

My kids get a swat here and there. Its not something we do alot, but its something we do that makes them understand they really messed up and they better not do that again. I used to get my butt spanked pretty good, with wooden spoons, etc. My kids have never been spanked anywhere near that. But because we reserve spanking for very serious things, it really gets their attention and they usually don't doit again. Our DD is high functioning, and she is usually really good. But she has gotten swats.[QUOTE=Holly_WA]

I really was going to not say anything, but I will anyways....

Why does everyone assume that parents who spank---spank in ANGER? Spanking is a form of "discipline", just like time-outs---just another method.

I'm sure there are plenty of people who DO spank in anger----but....it is very possible to spank in a very loving, non-violent way. I have NEVER spanked my children in anger. If anyone spanks in anger---they should not EVER spank!

What gets me is-----you can give a time-out in a violent, angry way and no-one ever says anything about it.

It doesn't matter WHAT kind of discipline method is used-------they ALL need to be without ANGER!! If parents are not patient enough to teach their children in a non-angry way, then they shouldn't be disciplining them at all and they need a course on anger management.

I know everyone--yes EVERYONE has been angry with their kids before. But then--thats not the right time to discipline their kids. What is discipline anyways?? It is TEACHING. Can't teach or learn when angry.

I'm sorry I got on this rampage. It just really makes me upset that alot of people assume that parents who spank---always do so in anger and that is just not true!

[/QUOTE]

Holly, I do agree -- and parents who are verbally abusive, or worse, who SHUN thier kids, are apt to have far worse responses than parents who spank but then immediately hold their child, and explain WHY they were discplined, i na loving and caring way.

Both DH and I were raised by mothers who would do the "not speaking" thing, sometimes for DAYS. I think either of us would take a calculated, controlled spanking over that, any day.

Yes, I do agree that nonphysical things can be just as, if not more, detrimental to children. My mom did the "not speaking" thing too.Holly, I wasn't assuming that all parents spank in anger (see my original
post) I was just cautioning against it.

Okay, I have to respond....but please remember this is JUST MY OPINION. You said about spanking "in a loving, non-violent way"....I am sorry but I feel hitting in any way cannot be non-violent. Hitting hurts...be it just with a little force or a lot of force. Spanking is hitting....we don't want our kids to hit...but we can hit them...it seems like ridiculous logic to me. To me if you are spanking, you are using physical force as a deterrent and punishment. To me the physical force involved in spanking takes some level of anger or violence or need for power. I just don't think spanking is the way to go....that is my opinion. I think it sends the wrong message, it teaches something we really don't want our kids learning (it is okay to hit someone if they do something wrong....where do we draw the line?), and it creates mixed emotions in children....especially special needs children. I was spanked as a child.....though I must have done something my parents did not want me to or that was "wrong" I barely remember that...I just remember the pain of the spanking and the feeling of being unloved, "bad", my anger, thier anger, sadness, and wanting to "get them back on day". And this was with my parents spanking little compared to some. My sister's attitude (as we have very different personalities and views of our parent's form of discipline) is "my parents spanked me...I will spank my child, I am in charge and I will not tolerate bad behavior....she will learn to listen to me or else"....what the heck is that? It sure sounds angry and violent to me. When my parents spanked me I certainly viewed them as violent people. But hey, that is MY opinion.

----------------------------------------------------------

"Studies with both animals and children show physical punishment is actually less effective than positive reinforcement and other forms of discipline in correcting and changing behavior. In fact, research shows that over time, children who are spanked may increase their bad behavior.

In some children, spanking does little to develop a sense of conscience, but instead fosters the idea that they only need to be good if someone will find out. Fear of getting caught doing the wrong thing is very different from learning to behave because it's the right thing to do.

Researchers have also found that children who are spanked show higher rates of aggression and delinquency in childhood than those who were not spanked. As adults, they are more prone to depression, feelings of alienation, use of violence toward a spouse, and lower economic and professional achievement. None of this is what we want for our children."

Reference: http://life.familyeducation.com

"Consider a spanking incident from the child's end. When a child is spanked, powerful sensory information and physiological reactions are elicited. From the child's viewpoint, corporal punishment is an assault (i.e., knowingly or intentionally causing physical pain) by a powerful adult and consequently is believed by some to be "deeply traumatic" (Straus, 2001, p. 9). Assuming the corporal punishment was executed appropriately so it was sufficiently painful, various neurophysiological stress reactions are likely to occur (see McEwen, 2001). It is likely the child then experiences intense emotional arousal and one or more particular emotions (i.e., fear, anger, humiliation, embarrassment, or perhaps sadness), though crying may be the only obvious manifestation of the distress (Graziano et al., 1996).

The child's arousal and negative emotion likely affects both the perception and acceptance of the parent's disciplinary message (Grusec & Goodnow, 1994). One fundamental question that a child-oriented perspective would address is, Do children remember the nature of their transgression or simply that they were hit? Similarly, does corporal punishment, in fact, achieve the desired effect or does it breed resentment, avoidance, or even perhaps a desire for retaliation? It is likely that children's reactions are complicated by such characteristics as age, gender, temperament, and background (e.g., Kochanska & Thompson, 1997). Nevertheless, investigating corporal punishment through the eyes of children rather than the adult is the single most pressing research need."

Reference:

Perspectives on the effects of corporal punishment: Comment on Gershoff (2002). Holden, George W.; Psychological Bulletin, Vol 128(4), Jul 2002. pp. 590-595

***Again, this is MY OPINION and I am not saying anyone is right or wrong...but I DO NOT approve of spanking. I DO NOT MEAN TO OFFEND ANYONE AND I RESPECT YOUR OPINION!***

I know what you are going thru. My son is 12 years old, acts alot younger at times. There is no reasoning with him. If he does something wrong and I tell him not to do it I swear he hears please do. I yell till I'm blue in my face somedays and unfortunately more then often Ido swat him on the butt. Luckly he is still smaller then me. I also dread taking him anywheres because he tends ti thrive on embarrass me and his sisters or act up.

[QUOTE=MamaKat]I really did not mean to imply that anyone here was abusing their children. I
apologize if that is how it sounded. I guess I just feel strongly about
spanking kids in anger because of my line of work (with children) I've seen it
get out of hand quite quickly. I study cases all the time where otherwise
rational parents are reported to CPS, because they left a mark. Or the kid
tried to fight back and ended up with a black eye. I really wasn't trying to
implicate anyone here in this--I was just having a strong and poorly worded
response to the thread.
I'm sorry if I offended you. Truly.[/QUOTE]

I really was going to not say anything, but I will anyways....

Why does everyone assume that parents who spank---spank in ANGER? Spanking is a form of "discipline", just like time-outs---just another method.

What gets me is-----you can give a time-out in a violent, angry way and no-one ever says anything about it.

I'm sorry I got on this rampage. It just really makes me upset that alot of people assume that parents who spank---always do so in anger and that is just not true!