Lock her in the bathroom? potty related | Autism PDD
Do not force her. You will have problems for a very long time. Adam was forced before we had a dx and my dh was upset that he was 4 and not potty trained. He still has accidents and my doctor told me it was because we forced him and now we are basically training him for bowel movements all over again.
I got so tried of diapers -- I was afraid they were going to wear them to college!!!
One day I said that is it!!!!! No more diapers!!!! The garbage man came, I made a big deal and told the garbage man we do not have diapers in this house anymore, because big girls live here (he looked at me crazy of coarse).I threw every diaper out and said "The toliet is were you go".
I was ready to give in about 2 hours later, but I had no diapers. It actually worked!!! If I did not through the diapers out -- they would probally still be in them.
We had a few accidents for about a week or two but they lean to control them soon.
Get an Ipod so the screaming does not drive you crazy.
Oh my thank you for all of the useful responses. I am following up the links right now. And sorry for the title! I hope you didnt think that I locked her in the bathroom and left! Right now it is both of us in there screaming and crying. Thanks for the encouragement!missnippy I personally wouldn't force. the boys were forced at preschool while in DC, didn't know about it, and it has created a nightmare. I was getting there before school started, they would sit on the potty for a few minutes without complaint, now a year and a half later they scream, cry and thrash and tell me no pretty loudly. I have no idea how to get them over it. But they probably would be trained by now if it hadn't been for that school. We have a 12 year old with asperger's and tried to force this, before DX. It was the worse thing we did. Do not force this issue with your child it will only make it worse. Please check with your Doctor and use your Search button at the top of page for Potty training ideas. We still struggle with this issue. The use of Risperdal has helped him a lot, because he had a bathroom phobia, but our child was 6 before we resorted to medicine. I wish you luck.
My son trained at age 4-1/4, and for us. He didn't have the particular problem you describe, but the breakthrough came when we understood and dealt with his sensory issues so I recommend looking into that. If you don't have an OT to consult with, you can start with this sensory issues checklist:
http://www.sensory-processing-disorder.com/sensory-processin g-disorder-checklist.html
Here is my long list of potty resources, in case you're interested. Sensory issues are discussed in some of the articles. If a link doesn't work, it's probably because a blank space got added (that happens sometimes on this forum), so try deleting the spaces. If it still doesn't work, let me know and I can fix it.
Good informational articles on potty training for autistics:
http://www.epinions.com/content_4025262212 - description of one autism mom's experience. She includes links to visual aids/PECS.
http://www.teacch.com/toilet.html - advice from TEACHH. Includes a checklist, which some kids find motivating (task completion).
http://www.nas.org.uk/nas/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=528&a=3366 - from the National Autistic Society in the UK
Sample social stories:
http://www.setbc.org/pictureset/resources/potty_story/potty_ story.pdf - with illustrations
http://www.polyxo.com/socialstories/ss0004.html -
http://www.autism-india.org/apr00.html
http://www.butterflyeffects.com/tips/toilet-training-tips-so cial-story-for-toilet-training.aspx
http://www.frsd.k12.nj.us/autistic/Social%20Stories/Pages/go ing_to_the_bathroom.htm
http://etd.lib.ttu.edu/theses/available/etd-10212006-124110/ unrestricted/Brown_Donna_Diss.pdf - page 183 in the document (page 193 according to the viewer), specifically about flushing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSznf5We2Jc - video social story about using the bathroom at school instead of peeing outside on the playground. With Tom and Jerry!
http://www.machkovich.com/CorysAutismRecovery/SocialStories/ GoingToTheRestroomInPublicPlaces.pdf - about using a public restroom (with pictures)
http://www.machkovich.com/CorysAutismRecovery/SocialStories/ OnceUponAPotty_2.pdf - about staying dry at night (with pictures)
http://sam26847.tripod.com/id5.html - potty story with pictures
http://sam26847.tripod.com/id23.html - poop story with pictures
http://www.fcps.edu/ss/its/howtos/socstor/Bathroom%20Book.pd f - bathroom story with pictures
http://www.fcps.edu/ss/its/howtos/socstor/In%20the%20Bathroo m.pdf - about leaving the classroom to use the bathroom.
http://www.fcps.edu/ss/its/howtos/socstor/My%20Potty%20Book. pdf - about potty training (peeing only)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1853029505/ref=sib_dp_pt/104 -5219620-8195900#reader-link - an in-depth story about using the toilet and another about washing hands from Carol Gray's book "My Social Stories".
http://www.thepartnership-yh.org.uk/pages/viewpage.asp?uniqi d=62 (just lick on Social Stories - Leeds). This story is about urinals.
http://www.lil-fingers.com/potty/index.html - online potty book. Look at it alone first, to see if you want to use the sound (a talking toilet!) or read it aloud yourself.
http://www.sesameworkshop.org/sesamestreet/games/pottytime/f lash.php?contentId=16805504 - Elmo online potty game
Other:
http://www.amazon.com/Toilet-Training-Individuals-Related-Di sorders/dp/1885477457/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-5219620-8195900?ie =UTF8&s=books&qid=1179811052&sr=8-1 - book by Maria Wheeler called "Toilet Training for Individuals with Autism and Related Disorders", soon to be released in a new edition. Given 4 out of 5 stars by 17 Amazon reviewers.
http://www.creativepottytraining.com/index.html: An idea for doing a game instead of a sticker chart.
Good luck with everything!
We trained my son under pressure from a teacher at his daycare and that is not the way to go. He had a VERY hard time of it and I regret caving in in order to keep a teacher happy.
Yes preschools can discriminate if they are private, unfortuantely. Some classrooms are rated for trained kids only -- the teacher-to-child ratio changes, etc.
PLEASE don't lock her in the bathroom.....I can't see how anything postiive will come from that. I know how frustrating pottying is.....but I promise that you CAN NOT force a child to be potty trained. If you could.....it wouldn't be so hard and none of us would have problems ! We have all been where you are.....you are not alone.
I agree with others.....consult the school....explain....if they are recieveing any state money I believe they can not discrimiate....if it is a private school....I think they have the right to deny.....
If it weren't for the school worry .....would you be so upset ? My dughter took a good 18 months to potty train ( and that was starting at age FIVE )...granted her havind Down syndrome AND Autism makes her unique.....but know that training will take longer.
How about a potty seat NOT in the bathroom ? Then at least you can work on pottying without the fear she already seems to have for the bathroom itself, then work on bathroom fears.....If you have an IEP at her school.....BE SURE TO PUT POTTYING ON IT !!
I work hand in hand with my daughter's teacher in this area.....best of luck....take a deep breath....and try not to force it !!
The only advice I can give is to see because she is special needs if it is absolutely nescesarry that she be potty trained...I know in Mason's case it wasn't and he started kindergarten wearing pull-ups.
It is a tough area and there is a lot of good advice out there, but to me, ASD kids do it when they are ready and it doesn't matter what we do to help them...Mason fought and fought, no rewards worked.
The only thing I did was make sure that I was taking him to the bathroom every 1/2 hour at first...to show him that no matter what he was doing he needed to stop that activity and use the bathroom...he didn't always go and sometimes I would make him sit until he went...as long as there wasn't a huge meltdown occuring.
Eventually he understood what was going on and would just go when I took him...I was able to allow more time in between bathroom visits...his school was very helpful in making sure they stuck to his routine...the only downside was it took a very long time to work! Like I said he finally felt ready and I think it happened...nothing else worked!
Good luck and I'm sure others will be along with advice soon! Take care.
Are schools allowed legally to discriminate on the basis of potty-training? (For instance, would they be able to keep out a kid with physical disabilities who was unable to use the bathroom for that reason?) A lot of autistic kids aren't trained till 5 or later. (I was technically trained at 5, had accidents relatively frequently until early teens, and still have a fair number today actually.)I am mommy to a 4 1/2 yo dd with autism/pdd-nos, and we are desperate to potty train in order to start a new school placement that requires that all the kids be trained. Kiki is still wearing diapers and pull ups but will use the toilet to pee IF i remove all of her pants. I have read back in the other threads on this and it seems that there are some other parents in the same boat. I need some advice on her case. When she has to do a bm, she will hold it until she is at home. If she has no bottoms on she runs around screaming and crying for a diaper. I have tried to practically throw her onto to toilet but she screams and cries horribly and will not stay on. Now if I even take her to the bathroom she runs out and is frantic. I have tried sitting with her, rewarding her, showing her where her poops go, giving her hi fiber so she has not choice, even holding her down on the toilet. She will not stay in the bathroom unless I lock the door and stand there with her, and then she is practically vomitting, she is so upset, and we are both crying. I am desperate for advice and your experiences. thanks for listening.
Yvonne
If you push her too hard, she will develop a phobia of the bathroom/potty
This could delay the potty training, not make it come quicker.
We had to back right off with sharlet because a phobia started to set in. She
is the same, she holds her bm until she has a nappy.
I understand your frustration, but trust me, if she is not ready, I think it can
be a waste of time pushing it, and when they are ready, it comes much
easier. I think the average is 5-6 for autistic kids, so don't despair
((((HUGS)))) oh and as far as the school, I'd be surprised if they can actually
refuse to take your son on the basis of potty training. I'd be looking into
that too if I were you.
Take care
I have another friend who was so exasperated with her 3.5 yo NT daughter that she sat right outside the bathroom door and made her daughter sit on the potty for two hours straight in an attempt to get her to have a bowel movement. I was on the phone with the mom and could hear the girl sobbing, "Please mommie, please I want to come out..." I could hear the desperation in the girl's voice and the exasperation in her mother's.
So, this is a common problem for both NT and ASD children I think.
But personally I would not force potty-training. While I think it's true that some of it is certainly appropriate training, I also think quite a bit of it can be physiological. Some children just can't hold their urine in because they do have weaker bladder muscles. Some children have sensory issues which make them not want to go potty. Some children fear sitting on the toilet or the sound of the toilet flushing. Some kids might feel the only sense of control they have over their life is that they CAN hold their urine and bowel movement in so that's what they do.
To potty train my son, I initially put him on the potty every hour for about 5 hours. I let him sit on the potty for just a minute. If he didn't have to actually go to the bathroom, we came out of the bathroom. After those 5 hours, we went to the bathroom every couple of hours.
To motivate him to actually go to the bathroom I used some small new toys. He could hold and play with the toys while sitting on the potty. But these were only toys for the bathroom, not to be used at any other time. It has to be something he absolutely loves.
If he started to get upset on the potty, I sometimes tried to calm him down by singing his favorite songs while sitting on the floor of the bathroom right next to him.
I have also used puppets in the bathroom. If he went potty, I did a one-woman puppet show which often had him laughing and worked to relax him. I kept some puppets in the bathroom for that if toys or singing didn't work.
I used positive reinforcement - lots of praise. If he ever did sit on the potty, he got lots of praise, backrubs, kisses, and hugs...right there right on the potty. :)
The first time he sat on the potty was a big party day. I asked my husband to bring home a chocolate cake with candles, a couple of balloons, and a small toy. We had a nice little celebration with just my son, mom, and dad. This celebration was quite memorable for him and it made him more inclined to agree to go to the bathroom after that.
For the first few weeks, I still rewarded him with other things after he went to the potty. We went out for ice cream to celebrate, or we would buy a sticker book, etc..For the first couple of weeks we would talk about his great accomplishment at dinnertime also.
For two or three months I had to use a timer. Every 1-2 hours the timer went off and if he didn't say he had to go to the bathroom, I'd take him there. It was not forced, however. If he resisted and said he didn't want to or have to, he didn't go.
Overall, making bathroom time fun and enjoyable seemed to work for my son.
I think pressuring can actually make a child tighten his muscles even more so he will become more constipated. It also could make him associate potty-time with undesirable or scary feelings.
There are behavioral analysts that help in this regard also. Is there an autism clinic anywhere near you to get help for this?
Good luck.
My DS was difficult with this also. My family kept telling me he shld be out of nappies so I kept trying to force it too. I even tried the hold him on the toilet thing as well. He screamed bloody murder till I let him go then promptly peed himself all over the carpet.
In the end I gave up and just left him to it, if he wanted a nappy on that day I let him if he took it off and ran bare bum I let him. Frequently family and friends would see him streaking through the yard
It is hard but always try to have higher expectations than you feel they have..they will achieve them and suprise you everytime:) Good luck!
i have a book on potty training individuals with autism, so you can see from the title that this training might occur at any age (not just toddler). i don't think it's the end of the world to have to keep changing diapers, and if there is a program, other than public school, that won't accomodate diapers... consider not signing up for it-- maybe there's a better alternative. if it's public school, they better get used to the diapers.
my 3 year old isn't ready for potty training, but he does request that i put a diaper on him when he needs to go #2... hey, that's pretty good, huh?
I have a 6 1/2 Autistic disorder son. I have to say this week he is finally poopy trained!We did not stop diapers until he was around 5. We started with social stories that my daughter and I made, let him sit on the little potty any where he wanted with clothes on. We used his favorite place Home depot to train him. Made him home depot undees, go to home depot first time he went, used stickers to fill a chart then he would get another trip there, etc.
If your child has a favorite toy, book, etc. buy it and let her only use it on the potty. My son has no fav. toy and we already have tons of books but his teacher informed me that he loved the book Caps for Sale, I bought it and the only time he could listen/read it was when he was on the potty. It worked, but he held it in for three days. You know your child, when you are sure she has to go then proceed to the bathroom. My son is only now learning to "feel" his body and know when it is telling him he has to go, he does not need prompting.
We did not push him more than I felt he could handle (he learned to pee sitting first, no punishments for accidents-nor anger from us, rewards......)
Bear in the Big Blue House also had a potty video we borrowed from a friend.
My son is quite proud of himself for being a big boy!missnippy,
Can you give us a better idea of your daughter's language abilities,
reinforcements that work or don't, punishments that do or don't work.
Basically, I did the same thing Tzoya and ShelleyR did. I knew that my ds
didn't like the feel of pee pee in his pants, so when he started to go, we
carried him into the bathroom to finish. However, before we went *cold
turkey* with the diapers, we told ds that it was OK to go pee pee during
his bath rinse. That way, he was able to say *bye bye* to his pee pee.
Both these things prepared him for using the potty.
For pooping, we still kept him in undies. When he had an accident, he
had to clean everything up--himself, his undies and whatever else got
soiled. He hated that, so he started going poopy right away. And I agree
that if you try it too soon, major issues can come on.Just want to add, that to be cautious about using the word "lock" about your doors. Everybodys situation is unique, and we do what we must, but I wouldn't share that info with the school or any other public agency, they don't like it.Yes, yes, the school/agency would not like my language here but they would not help us either, now, would they? I even asked them to put potty training into the IEP but it was not very specific, they will "assist" in some vague way. So right now I have "backed off" and Kiki happily goes in her diaper, but will occasionally reward us by urinating in the toilet, but ONLY if she is barebottomed. She likes to play with her privates all the time when she is naked so that is not an option - it just horrifies just about everyone that meets her. I personally think that potty training is more important than whether she self-stimulates, touches herself, etc, but that is just me... She doesnt care whether she is wet or not, and as far as the poop goes, what she does is wait it out - she will simply STOP her bowel movements if she thinks that we are trying to coerce her. I don't want her to be constipated so i am just leaving her alone. If I take her diapers away and she has to do a bm, she just screams and screams. Her speech and communication is very delayed but she understands exactly what we want from her. I am just going to let her be for now, I guess. She wins.
missnippy
[QUOTE=missnippy]Yes, yes, the school/agency would not like my language here but they would not help us either, now, would they? [/QUOTE]
Ya know, this really isnt' necessary.
[QUOTE=missnippy] I am just going to let her be for now, I guess. She wins.[/QUOTE]
Although I totally understand the desire to be done with Diapers......try not to feel defeated.....she didn't win and you didn't lose.,....you have just recognized that she isn't ready yet and there is NOTHING wrong with that.
No child ( ASD or NT ) can be FORCED to potty train....they can be helped, taught and encouraged, but if they aren't ready, they just aren't ready.
I know how frustarting it is.....my daughter is 7 and we still have accidents and I find that I prompt her all the time.....
"They" cannot say that potty training cannot be put on the IEP if the child is capable of potty training at this point. They may be saying to you that she isn't. If she IS, FUNCTIONAL SKILLS are required by law to be included in an IEP. In any event, there is NO hope whatsoever of a young ASD child being potty trained if the school does not cooperate. Don't feel defeated. It's totally typical for ASD kids to be trained around 5. Some are trained as early as 4. Few before that. And functioning level seems to have little to do with it. My guess is that sensory issues and issues with the need for sameness are at the root of this pervasive problem. My son is now 16. He got trained the spring before kindergarten and never had an accident after that. I know plenty of ASD kids his age who entered kindergarten in diapers. Now that they are teens, not a single one of them is in diapers nor do any of them have issues with using the toilet. Just thought you might like to know that the final results don't have much to do with whether or not they were still in diapers at school age. You also might get more info from pasts posts on this topic. Just use the search option on this site and you'll get tons more about potty training.I truly believe that all kids, whether ASD or NT, will be potty trained whenever they're ready and not a day before. Like Tzoya said, many ASD kids start school in diapers and turn out just fine.
What really frosts me is the fact that your school program won't work with you, thereby causing you all of this unnecessary anxiety by trying to force you to make your child's body comply with a completely artificial and unnecessary deadline. I think it's a bunch of crap.
When C started EI preschool at age 3 1/2 he was not trained, though we were casually working on it. I asked if that was going to be a problem and they said no and that they would help work on potty training during the school day. We didn't have it in his IEP or anything formal, but they did work with him and he was trained by age 4. How can the school not work with you on this? Aren't we all supposed to be a team here?
Regarding this particular school placement, is it regular preschool, or kindergarten, or an EI class?
I know that when I looked into regular (through the park district) preschool and asked about the potty issue because potty training was a requirement, they were kind enough to explain to me the licensing issues behind some of these rules. If an organization is licensed as a daycare, then the staff are able to change clothing and diapers as a part of childcare. Therefore, if you go to a preschool within a daycare setting (many daycares, once kids are 3 or 4, do a half-day traditional preschool and the rest of the day more nap/snack/play traditional daycare) then potty training should not be an issue. However, a stand alone preschool that is not licensed as a day care, is treated more like a school and staff is not allowed to take a child's clothing off, touch a child's private parts, etc. which pretty much precludes diaper changing. This preschool also told me that all kids have accidents, and that if my child had an accident that they would call me to come change him - potty perfection was not a requirement. (They did kindly say that if I couldn't get there quickly they wouldn't let him sit there wet, but it would need to be the exception and not the rule.)
No, hpcmagic it really is true. I asked the IU for help and they said that the child is not going to public school yet and is not old enough for it to be a crisis and for them to assist with potty training. So I find myself trying to do this myself, including locking the bathroom door while we are both in there so that she will stay put! If you dont want me to share this I guess I will just move on. I don't understand why you say it isnt necessary. This is why parents are so frustrated.missnippy
I did not read this whole thread...
Andrew is 5 1/2 and still not trained. He will go pee-pee in the potty most of the time, but he will absolutely not have a BM there. He knows that is where the poopy goes. He knows that he has to take off or pull down his pants/pull-ups. He will wait until I am distracted for a moment, strip from the waist down, go wherever he is (he tries to get "near" the bathroom), and then come and tell me. We have worked with the school, pictures, rewards...I have spent hours in the bathroom. He is terrified of sitting on the potty to poop. He will sit on the potty and count, but he will scream and totally freak out at even the mention of having to go poopy in the potty, or he will just scream "NOOOO!!!!" at the top of his lungs. He is not ready. I need a break, and I am not pushing him. I AM tired of cleaning up poop, however. By the way, he will only go at home!
Also, think about it. WHen you are stressed and upset, can you sit on the toilet and go? How would you feel about being locked in the bathroom? Would that relax you enough to release your bowels? Not unless you got so scared you pooped by accident! Please stop pushing your daughter this way. The world does not need one more ASD child with megacolon from holding in bowel movements from fear. Please.missnippy,
Do not underestimate the possibility that any hard core, old school type potty trianing regimes could backfire in a big way. If she is withholding BMs and is wildly resisting using the potty, you really do need to back off of her because this really does lead to problems. We have several examples right here on this board.
'Witholding' leads to conspipation which leads to impacted stools, which leads to a very unpleasant condition called encopresis. This is not an uncommon condition (even with typical kids, but I suspect an even higher rate with special needs kids), and the root cause seems to be chronic constipation coupled with psychological issues with toileting.
If she is perceiving toileting as traumatic, and if she's actively withholding to avoid using the toilet, the stage is set for this condition, and it can be quite serious.
I would suggest that you employ only positive reinforcement techniques for getting her into the bathroom and using the toilet. There are actual curriculums for this, and the entry point into these curriculum is often at a level that is more basic than you'd expect (i.e. - start with having the child enter the bathroom voluntarily and reinforce that. Next, it might be sitting on the toilet with their close on, etc - building up the skill in stages, heavily reinforcing along the way).
That seems like a lot of work, but I'm worried that the difficulties you are having will only become more serious is you do not pull back and attempt a different approach.
FWIW - my non autistic seven year old son was the one who went through a bout of encoprecis. It was my fault, totally. He trained around 3, but was still having BM accidents after three, and instead of approaching it rationally, I would punish him and get angry with him. He began to associate BMs with this negative reaction, I guess, and started withholding, which led to chonic constipation, which led to encoprecis. Thankfully, the encoprecis did not persist (and, from encoprecis you can move on to such lovely conditions as 'mega-colon'), but by creating psychologic 'issues' around toileting, I caused some real problems for my poor son.
With my autistic daughters, we just let them be. We let them know where the potty was, what it was for, and praised them when they showed interest in it - we exposed them to potty videos (there are some good, musical ones "I Gotta Go!", that seem to hold children's interest) and encouraged them to sit on the potty every once in a while, and if they managed to 'do the right thing', we heavily reinforced that. The most important thing, though, was having learned from my mistakes from my son, was just to not worry about it.
Yes, it was a chore - changing diapers for 3+ year old TWINS, but it did pass, and once they were clearly showing signs of readiness, we simply did as others have done - we just took away the pullups and let them 'sink or swim' - they knew what to do and had positive experiences with toileting in general, so the transition was very smooth and took place over the course of a weekend and the number of accidents they've had since then I could count on one hand.
and started sitting on the toilet with lots of encouragement and praise...
We went to the Pains and incontinence program at Children's Hospital and thereapists....
I have spent countless hours just sitting in the bathroom with him....Once he started sitting on the toilet I got him an inexpensive plastic TV table that had sides on it so that he could play with his cars or toys while he sat there and they wouldn't fall off. That seemed to help keep him busy while he was in there.
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