Sister-in-law is trying to take over!!!! | Autism PDD
don't want to step on your toes, but your husband needs to step up and
big time. it is his family and he should be the one who stands behind you
and if that means setting some serious boundaries with his sister than so
be it.
L
We have really been considering moving. My hubby was offered a management position at one of my uncles restaurants in Myrtle Beach. Making so much more money than he is now. I am scared to move where we don’t know anybody but it seems there is so much more to offer there than here(in BFE TN). I am also so so scared about Trinity and if she will be able to handle another change. How she would get her ST and OT and so forth. Right now our insurance covers everything.
I have always said I wanted to live on the beach though...just the thought of the sound of the waves crashing on the shore and the feel of the sand on my feet relaxes me....
get your husband to talk to them. educate them on what you are trying to do with your daughter, and explain it is easier for you if they respect your wishes. i would only let them watch her a couple times a month. they need to lay off.I guess I would stop the weekends. You don't have to give them an explanation, but you could tell them that you can't continue to have them undo what you are working so hard on. Maybe let both the girls visit once a month for a sleepover. Then your older girl won't feel so let out and it would be more of a "treat".Nicole
All I can tell you is I played this same game with my in-laws for years and I finally got tired off it. My husband was told by them finally when I confronted them because he wouldn't that he needed to pick between me and his child and them. He picked me and we moved further away from them. It stopped the issues. I guess with your sister-in-law she needs to understand that Trinity is your child and if you say something then it goes regardless of if they agree with you are not. You are still the parent and you still make the decisions for that child. If that means she does not see your daughter for a while then so be it but she has to understand that there are boundaries and she is crossing them. Good luck and big hugs it will get better.
This is going to be extremely difficult as you already know. This family is ENMESHED with yours - and that is not a good thing. You need to get out. See if you can find a reasonable babysitter in order to get a break. This just can't go on - it is going to hurt your entire family. Trinity NEEDS consistency and set rules. I know you are worried about her in terms of diagnosis - but you need to get her on a routine and these people are not going to help with that. They will destroy it in fact! I know this is only one side of the story - but I'm going on what you say and I think your dh's family is hurtful to yours. I sincerely hope you all have the strength to distance yourself from them - even if it means moving.
Good luck to you and keep us posted!
Just to warn you this is more of a vent with a few questions than anything major.
So here is my deal I will try and make it as short as possible since I could go on for days...My husbands family is really close and I have no family here so they have helped us out a lot. Two months after I had Trinity I was pregnant again and lost the baby at three months...his sister started getting her quite a bit around then due to me being really depressed about it and then not even two months later I was pregnant again and had a really hard time so she started getting her on the weekends and my oldest DD went to her grandmas(she has a dif dad, though he is not in her life his mom is) so I could rest. Well the baby was born and has had a lot of health problems Trinity still goes to me SIL on the weekend my DD1 grandma moved to FL so my SIL will get her maybe once a month. The thing is recently things have been getting really strange. I feel like I’m in a lifetime movie. They have always loved Trinity so much but now they act like they are her parents. They have family pics made together. Christmas and birthdays are terrible while spending about 20 bucks on my other kids they spend over 200 on her. She has her own room there and own clothes and toys. When they are out with her they tell people she is their kid! My SIL hubby even was trying to get her to call him dada when she was younger and still talking. They think I am crazy for doing any ST or OT and no way would they even not give her dairy, even under my request. If she is bad at family functions and I put her in time out they get her out! I had her going to sleep on her own by 4 months then they got her to where she still wants to be rocked to sleep. I take her binky but they just give her one again...the list goes on and on...If I say anything it will hit the fan-so to say. His family is so tight it will be really bad. But my oldest does not know why she can't go with her sister and they have never kept the baby. My hubby was offered a really good job in S.C. and we mentioned moving to his sister and was plainly told we can go but she is keeping Trinity. Like she really believes I will leave my child!! I am trying really hard to set schedule and limits with her but it's impossible when they let her do whatever with no punishments. I am lost...I know what I need to do but It is going to be really bad, my MIL already just tolerates me because I have her baby(he was the baby by 14yrs). I have a feeling it will become a choice for him and though he is 100% supportive of me I just don't want it to come to that. WHAT DO I DO?????[QUOTE=Pangle-n-Grace]. I feel like I’m in a lifetime movie. They have always loved Trinity so much but now they act like they are her parents. They have family pics made together. Christmas and birthdays are terrible while spending about 20 bucks on my other kids they spend over 200 on her. She has her own room there and own clothes and toys. When they are out with her they tell people she is their kid! My SIL hubby even was trying to get her to call him dada when she was younger and still talking. [/QUOTE]I'm just going to say it - There is something wrong with these people. Their behavior is strange - favoring your daughter over the other kids, telling people she's their daughter, "family" pictures - something is very off. Do they have any kids of their own? I would be very wary of them.
Draw some boundaries in the sand..especially them going against your parenting rules.....I would cancel weekends too..them giving her "own bedroom, clothes, toys' and calling her uncle da da is creepy..too much like the movie "the hand that rocks the cradle!
Moving may be a good solution...the beach sounds like a slice of heaven on earth:)
[---I would of sent all gifts back to them if they werent going to be fair! IMHO:)--]Funny you should say that...They take all her presents to their house...all except the ones we get her..even when my MIL buys her things she sends them to my SIL house!! I never see half of the things she gets unless I see her wearing them! As far them having thir own kids my SIL has 2 boys ages 13 and 15 from another marriage they have no kids together(as her husband was "fixed" in his last marriage) I know she is always saying Trinity is the little girl she always wanted! She had her ears pierced without telling me first and even get her hair cut!!
I do feel bad though because my daughter loves them so much but why wouldnt she?? They spoil her ROTTEN!!
I THINK I SHOULD SELL MY STORY TO LIFETIME!!!![QUOTE=Pangle-n-Grace][---
She had her ears pierced without telling me first and even get her hair cut!!
[/QUOTE]
IMO - Your SIL's behavior is way out of line. She needs to be reminded that she is NOT the mother, you are. The whole situation is definately creepy.
this family is, you need to establish some serious boundaries here.
Trinity may be the little girl she's always wanted, but someone's gotta tell
her she can't HAVE her!!
This will probably get ugly here, but you will be much better off in the long
run. This bond is unhealthy for everyone.When I was a child my grandmother wanted me to sleep at her house and do things her way all the time...She would call my mother and say "I think Ang will sleep over my house tonight" we only lived 2 houses apart but still.
One day my mother was so upset and had enough so my father went to see my grandmother(his MIL) and had a talk with her. After that things were different. My parents and I were surprised, we never thought she would just stop trying to be in control like that.
Don't get me wrong I loved my grandmother and she was a great person, she just liked to tell others what to do.
NIcole,
Good for you saying that this has to be stopped. I agree with the above posters here. Take care,
Karrie
Momof1, nice point. My mother was always controllling (pre kids), but once I sttod up to her, she folded. I think nobody had ever stood up to her b4.I can't imagine anyone piercing your dd's ears without ASKING you first! How incredibly rude and insensitive and a whole other lot of expletives I can't type here!
This needs to stop. NOW. I don't mean to be so blunt - but these people are WAY over the line here. Don't let them be! I know you need the break, but you need your family back first. Part of the reason you need a break is because they are messing with your daughter every weekend and I imagine it takes her a few days to get settled in again and then BAM! - she's back there again!
I think if you actually kept her at your house and tried to get a babysitter or mother's helper to come in - it might help. Even if you are there - you can have the sitter play with your kids while you take a break. Go outside or take a walk around the block if you have to.
This will be extremely difficult, I'm sure. I don't live at your house so I have no idea what you go through. For that matter, I'm plain and simple not YOU, so I don't know what you go through. But this is just wrong. Like I said before, this is enmeshed. This is not a healthy family and they need definite boundaries drawn. I do seriously worry they might do something like take her - so make sure that you have her safe-guarded as well.
Yikes - I'll send good, positive thoughts your way!
(funny how the eval said she didn't fit under the spectrum because she is to social...but she shuts down around strangers??but thats a whole other issue)
Nicole, Oh my....you have to get out of this situation. FAST. These people do not respect you at all. You need to stand up for yourself....set boundaries. You can't and shouldn't always be the nice guy. Do not be afraid of your sil trying to get you in trouble with the authorities. You have the right to stand up to her, you need to stand up to her. Your DH should also set boundaries and stand up to her. If it means that they get mad and leave you alone...GREAT! Sorry about my bluntness. She is your daughter, not theirs. Stand up to them....but, do not do it in front of your daughter, as it may frighten her. Good luck....lotsa hugs.
Kath
When I first separated from Quinn's father I used to worry constantly that he would try to take Quinn away from me. I still do but not as much as I used to. If he tries it I will use the fact that he is not as involved in Quinn's education as I am. He keeps saying he's gonna be fine.
Like it's gonna happen on it's own. It's not a nice feeling I know.
I don't think you have to worry. I don't see how SIL could try to say that you are unfit parents. You are NOT unfit.
It seems to me that you take excellent care of your kids. If you didn't you wouldn't be here getting support and information to try and help Trinity.
By getting her OT and ST, you are helping her and giving her what she needs.
i hope this gets resolved soon so that you wont have to worry about it.
At the risk of offending you, I'll be very blunt and say that not only does your SIL need reminding that SHE is not the mom....but YOU do, too. You are the MOM....you are an adult and YOU decide what happens to your child.....not them.
I see on your signature that you are 23....I think that is young to have so much responsibility on your shoulder, three children and one with special needs.....not passing ANY judgement what-so-ever......but perhaps your inlaws also see you as young and immature.....show them you aren't.....
You need to give yourself the respect you deserve and the confidence to stand up to them. You took their help in the past when you needed it, and there is NOTHING wrong with that, but now you deserve to enjoy your children.
I was in a horrible marriage for ten years, the divorce was ugly and I feared what he would try to hold against me in court....just as you fear what they may pull....but you need to dig deep and be angry that they are treating you like this.
I'm NOT saying start a family feud....but be confident in yourself, in your doctor reports, etc and don't let them bully you. I lived under a bully and I know how terrifying it is....I would second-guess myself all the time and wonder why I wasn't the Super-mom/wife he was expecting when the truth is, nothing would have ever been enough. Just as I suspect you will NEVER please your inlaws. I tried to always be nice and not make waves as it sounds like you are also doing....forget about it.... Standing up for yourself doesn't mean you are the bad guy or starting trouble.
Also, I doubt there is any changing them....they sound very bullying and a bully will always continue until they are confronted. Even if you move.....the abuse will be verbal and you will always be under their shadow.
The fact that your SIL tells others that she is her daughter is beyond weird. I would put an end to all sleepovers, etc.....keep your daughter busy and she'll miss them less & less.
I wish you the best of luck and am truly sorry if I came on too strong. But I know how it feels to have doubts put in your head about your parenting skills....I am NOT a perfect mom and was fearful that a judge would listen to my ex....but I realized no one ( except my ex ) expected perfection from me. I love my children and try my hardest every day to meet their needs just as you do and no judge would ever fault you for sending your child to OT & ST !! In a bit of time you will look back and LAUGH that you even feared that from them. What they are doing is abusive and the sooner you recognize that and understand that....the better off you will be.
Keep us updated
Honey, it is EXTREMELY difficult to take custody of someone elses child. OTand ST make you look good, not bad. You have never been in trouble with
the law. She couldn't just TAKE your daughter. Really, she is obviously
intimidating you, but she has no power here. If you decide not to send
Trinity to her house anymore, there really isn't a thing she could do about it
other than throw a fit. Or two.
I know it's hard, but this woman has to be given a chance to back off, or
you're going to have to seriously consider other plans. I second, third and fourth all the advice you've been given so far. You are
the parent....period. Exert your rights as the mother and stand firm in
what you believe is appropriate for your daughter. This is not a healthy
situation for your daughter, and in fact may be contributing to some of
her behaviors. As others have said, if she's on the spectrum, she needs
consistency, consistency, consistency. And the fact they are discouraging
you from pursuing therapy for her is a HUGE red flag. They clearly do not
have her best interests at heart here.....even if they believe they do.
The more power you give them, the more they are going to take. Getting
a child's ears pierced without their mother's permission is flat out
unacceptable. Cease the weekend visits immediately. The longer this
goes on, the harder it's going to be to extract yourself from it. Please
don't let these family members intimidate you. They have zero rights
here. She is your daughter and you call the shots.
Good for you! We are here to support you (at least electronically!)
The OT and ST would NOT count against you - you are doing what is necessary for your child. No social worker (worth their salt at least!) would take that bad. You are getting your child help for goodness' sake! The vaccine issue - well, that's really a personal decision and to be honest, some social workers might not take kindly to that. But the most they are going to do is try to pressure you to vaccinate her would be my guess.
This may sound strange, but at this point it may be good that you don't have a diagnosis of autism for Trinity. Parents of kids with special needs are often placed under greater scrutiny by social services. This is what I would do right now:
1) Clean your house - make it as clean as you can get!
2) Find a mother's helper - this is someone who you can pay less and just be there to help you out (WHILE you are still in your house). That may help ease Trinity's discomfort with a stranger and possibly you may eventually be able to step out for a walk around the block. Also, observing this person with your child for a long period of time will also help YOU feel more at ease about leaving your kids with this person. It is hard to leave your child with someone you don't know well. But you NEED a break (and deserve one as well!). We all do!
3) Start documenting if you haven't already. What was said when. Start writing down phone calls and confrontations right after they happen. Put the time and date. You might want to put a notebook by the phone. Granted, people could say you made it all up - but it would also give anyone looking into it pause for thought.
4) Call for a developmental pediatrician appointment NOW. At least get on the list - there is usually a long wait.
5) Get your husband on board. If you have to, have him look at all of our posts to see that even strangers think this is just way too weird!
6) Take one day at a time and try to take as much stress off your plate as possible. You WILL get through this!
Good luck to you and keep us posted!
She is only getting away with this because YOU are letting her. That is YOUR daughter. Put your foot down. No one ever comes between me and my children.
This situation is very creepy and has got to be confusing to your daughter. I can only imagine the things they are telling her.
[QUOTE=allisa]At the risk of offending you, I'll be very blunt and say that not only does your SIL need reminding that SHE is not the mom....but YOU do, too. You are the MOM....you are an adult and YOU decide what happens to your child.....not them.
I see on your signature that you are 23....I think that is young to have so much responsibility on your shoulder, three children and one with special needs.....not passing ANY judgement what-so-ever......but perhaps your inlaws also see you as young and immature.....show them you aren't.....
You need to give yourself the respect you deserve and the confidence to stand up to them. .
[/QUOTE]
I agree, I am young there is no way around that, though I have been on my own since I was 14. It is hard to be a good mom and wife when I never had that in my life. I try, I do, I try like hell everyday to be a good mom and the wife my husband deserves to have. Immature I would say honestly I am not. ALL of my friends(used to be anyways,I have distanced myself from) still continue their ways as they did 7 years ago,kids or not...I am not that person. Since the day I found out I was pregnant with my DD1 I have strived to change my life and be a good mom. I too was in a very abusive relationship from 13-almost 20. I ended it,it(he) almost killed me but I did it. I married an excellent man who takes such good care of us. I see his wonderful CLOSE family(which I never had) and strive to be like them and to please them, I guess thats why this is so hard. It does anger me though, the fact they disrespect me in front of Trinitys docs by lying and making me out to be crazy(another story) but more so the fact that my other kids are suffering. My oldest does not understand and often asks why does Aunt ** not love me like Trinity?? THAT kills me. I know what I have to do . I do. I am going to. I will. This is all getting out of hand and it WILL stop.
Thank you allisa(no offense taken:) and everyone else, Its funny because I have always been the how you say-
WoW - I really can't believe how many of you responded to this...it was more of me venting than anything...but I do really appreciate everyones kind and even stern words and good vibes(snoopy
Also, stopping the weekend visits helps give them less ammunition. They could use that against you by saying you are so overwhelmed they HAVE to take her every weekend! But getting a mother's helper doesn't say the same thing - it shows that you are aware you need some help - but you are taking appropriate steps in getting it. It's hard to explain - but it is different.
You're in a really hard place, but you are taking good steps toward getting out of the situation. Good for you and I hope it works out well for you!
The nice thing to do..and only a suggestion:)
Have them over for dinner and tell them together~both you and dh how grateful you are for all the wonderful care they provided for your daughter at a time when you needed them the most and how much you appreciate all they did...
Then let them know as her parents that you & dh need to take full responsiblity for her for now while you are strong enough and ready to do so..it is not personal against them but it is personal to you & dh to be 100% parents at this time. Let them know you are not shutting them out of her life and will always let them have her on occasion but as a family unit we (you & dh) need to start raising your kids together 24/7 since it is our responsibility. Let them know how important it is to be a mom full time so that you can be the best mom you are striving to be...Be strong and calm and to the point..no tears:p
You will feel empowered and they will hopefully respect you & dh feelings on the matter..if they dont..well you followed your mother heart and have no regrets for that!
Having said that, you ask my background and it includes risk analysis. Look at the possible result from a therapist meeting. Its already shown that these people are highly manipulative and motivated. They would be there with an agenda of taking even greater control. If you re-read the initial post, recall they already have a room set up for the daughter with her own clothes and toys, and tell people shes their kid, and say they will keep her if the family tries to move. I believe they will specifically be there for character assasination and to make a case for control, not to seek common understanding. If Pangle were easily able to fend them off, she would have done so already and this thread would not exist. She would be at a disadvantage in such a meeting, and their inlaws could pounce. I assume you already know that and thats why you caution for a highly skilled therapist. Why give the inlaws such an opportunity? The results are subject to extreme risk.
Now look at an alternative spin the inlaws could put on this. Pangle would be seen as unable to deal with this and as needing help. Is that the face she wants to show at this point, needing help? Calling in a third party could be seen as inability to deal with parenting her daughter. And before, it was only family members who know this conflict, but this opens the door and starts to document the very thing she wants to avoid, which is to question who should be raising her daughter. Why on Earth would she want to give her SIL the forum to document her case to take over her daughter?
A useful exercise is to ask yourself if this directly impacted you and your family, how would you decide the best approach. Here, if someone else had already set up a room for your child, wouldn't the alarm bells be going off in your mind? You really would create a forum for them to state their case? And continue to allow them access to your child? It would be a huge huge step for the in-laws to actually go to any legal means to get control, they would probably not do it. Just suspending their visits would probably change things permanently right there. This suspention could allow Pangle as parent to later set up boundaries.
Oh, and back on my background. I have seen an extremely motivated dishonest individual manipulate medical and legal professionals and do huge damage to someone's life. Calling in professionals is not crossing the finish line, it may just be adding to the risk.
Okay, I think that Pangle needs some help here - these people have basically taken over her life and her child. I think that having someone else there who actually BELIEVES her and SUPPORTS her might help. No, they probably won't listen any better and they certainly aren't going to say "Oh okay!" and move on. I believe I said that in my previous post.
This is about PANGLE getting support in this. This is not easy to do and if she feels more comfortable doing it in the presence of a therapist, well more power to her! It might blow up and I think that is a good possibility - but so will any other way she is going to approach it then. These people sound psycho and I think Pangle having support through this is crucial. And I think the therapist witnessing this would be VERY wise - especially if the family members try to get custody. The therapist may be called to testify as to how the session went and it will only look good for Pangle - because she tried to do it in a very adult fashion and try to get a mediator to help sort this way-out-of-control situation through.
If you (Pangle) just do it by yourself, it is your word against theirs as to what happened. Maybe with a witness there they won't be as psycho, but I think you will see some things peek through. The key for you here, is to stay in control and maintain dignity. You need to be above this and come out looking like you have control over the situation.
This is a no-win situation as anything you do will probably result in a lot of stress. But hopefully it will be better because they will be out of your lives. It WILL be better for your kids - particuarly Trinity. This has to be hugely confusing for her and she needs to know what the boundaries are. You need to help set them. Whether you do it with the therapist or not - that's up to you. Again, I would caution you about a therapist who is an intern trying to manage this kind of situation - that may totally backfire. If a supervisor is willing to sit in, then that would be different.
These are just my thoughts...
Snoopy you bring up some VERY good points.
Pangle, I know you need more direct and immediate support, but I hope we are helping you by discussing it, too!
[QUOTE=Horseless]I think that is the worst advice I have ever heard. You can't talk to these people. You think you will reason with them and they will smile and say, "OH, obviously we were wrong and did not understand and we will change." To invite them to a therapist just multiplies the power they think they have and formalizes their strength. Then they can even say they acted as parents to help sort out the positive roles the various adults have in her life. Think about it. Think about how that session would go. You want those people sitting their helping to decide what role you will play in your daughter's life? Its like treating you as a participant instead of a parent. Just cut them off. Absolutely no contact with your daughter until such time you can re-evaluate this whole thing. What are they going to do, complain to some authority somewhere you aren't required to let them have your daughter. You have given them a huge amount of power, and only you can take it back. That therapist thing is just crazy. Might as well give them a key to your house. [/QUOTE]
Horseless, I really didn't appreciate how you worded this. Normally, I don't get offended by much, but I AM A FORMER IN-HOME FAMILY THERAPIST. I used to deal with stuff like this on occasion. And FAMILY therapy (which is what this would be) deals with all of the family dynamics that are not working - in order that everyone can work together better. That won't be accomplished here - that is a given. However, since Pangle is young and obviously these people have been taking almost complete control, I thought it would be wise to have someone else in her corner. This is NOT about giving them a key to her house - I think that's already been done in essence! This is about taking power back and it does not weaken her position by having someone else supporting her in that decision.
And YES, I think they ARE going to complain to some authority - SOCIAL SERVICES! I think they will most likely report her (they apparently are already good at lying) - which is why I have been giving her advice about getting her ducks in a row regarding her house and family before confronting them. And if there is a complaint, it is HIGHLY likely that someone from social services will come investigate. I want Pangle to be prepared for this and have ammunition ready and on her side. Which it sounds like this therapist is willing to be (on her side). However, I'm not sure it's the best idea since this therapist is not very experienced - which is why I suggested a supervisor sitting in.
Family therapy has NOTHING to do with giving these people power as parents. It means involving everyone who has a role in the family that may involve caretaking of a child. I have had grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc. in family therapy sessions - you often get a much better picture of what's going on in the family dynamics. A good therapist will not EVER let them feel that they have power as parents - they are simply being invited to this meeting to help set boundaries so that this little girl (Trinity) is helped in the best way possible. PERIOD. No one said anything about deciding what role Pangle will have in Trinity's life - that has already been decided. She is the MOM. This is about presenting this information to the people who are interfering and doing that with some support. I have no doubt it will not go well - but it certainly won't go better elsewhere! And then Pangle won't have support to fall back on if she does it alone.
Anyway, perhaps you could tone down your rhetoric a bit. Since I have my masters degree and did in-home family therapy, I feel I have some help to give here. To say that this was "the worst advice ever" was, I felt, harsh. I guess I have to ask what experiences/education you have to back this up?
Normally I'm not opposed to criticism - if it is done in a POSITVE way. This was not the case here. Pangle, if you wish to PM me, please do so. I will not be responding any more in this thread. I do not wish to be attacked anymore.
Okay...I'm back. An excellent discussion which I wish was taking place as a hypothetical scenario at a training seminar! But that's not the case, so...
I still fall more on the side of Snoopy woman, but Horseless makes a good point. Here are my thoughts...
Pangle, you must start building up your self confidence and personal power. Reaching out to trusted friends, even if by phone or e-mail, could be helpful. If you are affiliated with a church or synagogue, or other religious sanctuary, going regularly for prayer, peace, and serenity may be soothing.
I highly recommend following the advice in Snoopywoman's early post in preparation for a potential "fight" with these unbalanced relatives. Get a notebook today or tomorrow and start by writing down every single thing that you can remember regarding the concerns that you've posted here. If there is any "proof" like photos or receipts or whatever, tape or staple them into the book. Leave a few blank pages for what you'll remember later, then start keeping a daily log. Date, time, and sign or initial every entry. Write anything and everythinig that happens or that you are worried about. Document every phonecall, every appointment, everything that you do for your child. It need not be long, just complete. This will make you feel much better once you've started.
Regarding family therapy, I don't think that it's time yet. I recommend enough sessions alone with your therapist until you and she both feel confident that the benefits would outway the risks.
In the meantime, you must change. It's hard and it's scary, but you owe it to your daughter and yourself. Dr. Phil says that "You teach people how to treat you." Dr. Phil fan or not, I agree with that statement.
Remember that you are a wonderful, loving, responsible person and mother who deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. You want your daughter to grow up with you being her best role model. She needs to know what being a woman and mother is truly all about. Do these things now, and you will be giving her a gift that will last for the rest of her life...
I was looking for a more nicer way than being confrontational..I know you love them and have trust in them so I hope it works out..be strong:)
Shelly,
You are a very nice person which is why you think this way. Unfortunately, none of us actually know these people so we have no idea how this will go. However, in my experience as a social worker, from what has been described heretofore - these people are just not going to respond to "nice". They are gearing up to take her child away. They have WAY exceeded the boundaries (piercing ears, getting hair cut, saying "this is my child" when they are out). They aren't going to sit down to a civilized dinner, be told that the child is no longer going to be coming (that is all they will hear - not the niceties) and just say "Okay, We'll see you later!"
I think once Pangle has done some of the precautions (like getting stuff in place in case they try to get custody) that might be a way to sit down and explain what has already been happening (they have been 'too busy" to have Trinity come over). Mostly, I tend to be an idealist, but in this situation - I would have to deal in reality. Pangle is fighting an uphill battle and they are trying very hard to stack the cards against her.
I truly don't mean any offense - I think your approach is very civilized and nice. I just don't think in this situation it would work (with these people!).
Well I have been sitting down and thinking and writing good(and bad) things to say to them. Dinner is out of the question, we have lived here for 9 months and they only come over to pick up Trinity, they don't even come inside. They would not come over for dinner.
My SIL went to Trinitys eval with us. When I went back to discuss the DX, the therp brought it up(that noticable!) and said if I would like to have a big meeting with everyone that she could moderate to discuss how I am mommy and setting limits etc...she is willing to do it. Sound like a good idea??
Andrewsmommy-
I was thinking the same thing. I don't think having the people over for dinner would be effective anyway - I think that will kick them into high gear to pursue custody. And Pangle, you need to be ready before that happens. I would "be busy" every weekend while you start implementing these changes. It will be VERY hard and I hope you have some other support for you to help. But this CAN'T continue - and you are already aware of that.
I wish you only the best. When you feel like screaming - come here and post instead! Or scream into a pillow (that works too!).
Okay,
I'm coming into the discussion late, but here goes...
I agree with Allisa and most of the posters.
Before you mentioned them trying to prove you're an "unfit mother" that is the exact thought I had about your SIL's "weird" behavior...I was thinking, "Oh my God! They're making a case for custody!"
SnoopyWoman's precautions are right on track! Start TODAY. Even if only "BabySteps"...
And with all due respect to ShelleyR, whose suggestion about inviting them for dinner I would normally agree with, I'm not sure that you're ready for that yet. Make sure that you get yourself mentally and emotionally strong. "Take your power back" FIRST. I don'y mean by being hell on wheelsbut by believing in yourself, your love, your intentions, your instincts, etc.
WOW I'll have to wait until I get the kids asleep to read all this!!
I do thank everyone for their advice. I don't want to start a argument though. It's hard. I am glad I have all of you to "talk" to. I have no family here and all my 'friends' I would rather not be involved in my childrens’’ life. They can't even take care of their own kids. I am involved in church(the church my FIL pastors at) It is a nice but very small country Missionary Baptist church(aprx. 70 members at most) I think they have always tolerated me due to the fact I am the "PKs" wife. They though I know have looked down on me due to the fact I had a previous child and I was pregnant when we got married(we were not allowed to get married at the church) My in-laws are a huge part of the church, I hate to say I have been slacking a little about going to avoid them. I have not been slacking on prayer though. We have been thinking about trying another church out. I was saved though and baptized into the church 2 years ago. Enough religion I know how some people feel about it!!I do want to say my husband and I discussed with the therap about my SIL and told her everything she does(she had picked up on it though already) she said she would like to meet back with us alone at least 2 more times before we did have an "intervention" though. I would think that If they were going to try and take custody then this intervention would reflect the therap in favor of me and shows there was a problem. -???
I'll have to get back on here in a while with the rest....
......the demanding life of a mommy!......
Yes, please update us as to how this all works out. This was a very interesting discussion and I hope no one's feathers got too ruffled. I believe a careful reading of all this actually does point to a consensus. All this is rather "off topic", but at least as opposed to that Faith/Religion thread, passionate discussion here does lead to a conclusion. [QUOTE=Horseless]Having said that, you ask my background and it includes risk analysis. Look at the possible result from a therapist meeting. Its already shown that these people are highly manipulative and motivated. They would be there with an agenda of taking even greater control. If you re-read the initial post, recall they already have a room set up for the daughter with her own clothes and toys, and tell people shes their kid, and say they will keep her if the family tries to move. I believe they will specifically be there for character assasination and to make a case for control, not to seek common understanding. If Pangle were easily able to fend them off, she would have done so already and this thread would not exist. She would be at a disadvantage in such a meeting, and their inlaws could pounce. I assume you already know that and thats why you caution for a highly skilled therapist. Why give the inlaws such an opportunity? The results are subject to extreme risk.
Now look at an alternative spin the inlaws could put on this. Pangle would be seen as unable to deal with this and as needing help. Is that the face she wants to show at this point, needing help? Calling in a third party could be seen as inability to deal with parenting her daughter. And before, it was only family members who know this conflict, but this opens the door and starts to document the very thing she wants to avoid, which is to question who should be raising her daughter. Why on Earth would she want to give her SIL the forum to document her case to take over her daughter?
A useful exercise is to ask yourself if this directly impacted you and your family, how would you decide the best approach. Here, if someone else had already set up a room for your child, wouldn't the alarm bells be going off in your mind? You really would create a forum for them to state their case? And continue to allow them access to your child? It would be a huge huge step for the in-laws to actually go to any legal means to get control, they would probably not do it. Just suspending their visits would probably change things permanently right there. This suspention could allow Pangle as parent to later set up boundaries.
Oh, and back on my background. I have seen an extremely motivated dishonest individual manipulate medical and legal professionals and do huge damage to someone's life. Calling in professionals is not crossing the finish line, it may just be adding to the risk.
[/QUOTE]
My whole point is to give the advantage to Pangle. First, this would be on HER turf (the therapist's actually). The therapist is supposed to be helping her take back control. The problem is that this therapist may not be qualified to do this in this situation. I understand your point, but these people are already "pouncing" as you already put it. They have a room set up for Trinity, they tell people Trinity is "theirs". We all agree on this. They are planning, I'm sure, to call in social services or a lawyer. From what Pangle had said, I wasn't sure she could do this by herself - she HAS been letting them do this (due to being overwhelmed) to her family. I agree that having family therapy is not appropriate at this point - and probably ever. My post was probably not clear - I'm talking about ONE session, which is basically an "intervention" where Pangle tells the other family members that visits are over and SHE is the mommy. I can see where this might be used against her - but a SKILLED therapist will be able to indicate how incredibly manipulative this family is and testify to all the things that have been going on. This therapist recognized it in a matter of one evaluation. A highly skilled therapist and/or supervisor would not LET the family members try to assert control over the meeting and/or try to character assassinate Pangle. The ground rules should be late out from the very beginning and any time someone does not abide by them - they are asked either to leave the room, or take back their statements. If they want to leave, that is totally fine.
I guess another option would be to call this therapist and ask if she is willing to document what she noticed in the evaluation. I don't know what her role in this is supposed to be - but she did offer to do basically a "mediation". Anyway, the documentation would serve as some indication by an outside professional that these family members are stepping over boundaries. It also shows that Pangle is letting them. So, Pangle the best thing to do is put a stop to it now - and document it in a notebook - so that you can show that you are asserting your rights as "the mom" and are doing so appropriately. I would also at least talk to the therapist and tell her your plans and ask her to document that in her notes. If you sign a release, these notes could be released to the courts if it ever comes to that. But before you do that - I would definitely ask to see the notes first to make sure they don't shine a bad light on you too!
And as far as putting myself in the situation - that is hard for me to do. My personality is that I don't ever sit back. I am extremely pro-active. That is part of my professional training and experience as well as just my personality. But, I am a LOT older than Pangle
And I completely disagree with you that these people are not going to follow through. I would not want to take THAT risk. That is why I am telling Pangle to be pre-emptive, which is what Andrewsmommy said as well. Even if the risk is small - BE PREPARED!
Pangle, you know you need to stand up for yourself and have indicated a willingness to do so. From what you originally wrote about the therapist, she would probably not be the person you would want to mediate this meeting. If you feel you can handle this on your own (with hopefully your dh's support), then do it. Or, just call them and tell them you are doing better and you no longer need Trinity to go there on weekends and need her to stay home with you. Don't let them try to "yes, but" you at all. Just say you really appreciate what they have done but that now you need more time with Trinity to bond with her and work with her on lots of things. I guess if you have to hang up, do so. But again, before doing this - you need to document and get everything in order. Be "busy" for the next few weekends while you get things in order - have a trip planned or something that requires Trinity to go along.
Anyway, I do see somewhat of your point, Horseless. I just don't completely agree with it. I see this therapist as being on Pangle's side and in a court of law, that usually can only be a good thing. Yes, she's seeking help - but in the social services system that is usually something that people are given credit for. Even if she's overwhelmed - she's doing something about it. Please accept my word on this - I worked in foster care for years. Unless the system has changed drastically in the last 6 years and/or Pangle lives in a very isolated part of the country that doesn't believe in asking for help. I know such places do exist - I just choose not to live in any of them!
If social services came in, the first thing they should do would be an assessment. What supports does Pangle have? If she has none - that is counted against her. If what she has is the enmeshed in-laws who are filing the report - that doesn't help her either. If she is actively seeking out help because she has admitted she is overwhelmed, that SHOULD help her! I know we don't live in a perfect world, but asking for help should not be seen as a sign of weakness. It should be a sign of self-awareness and not being stubborn (or naive) enough to stay in an unhealthy situation and actually making plans to get out of it!
All right, I said I wasn't coming back to this thread so I should stop now....
Nicole,
After this thread.....you may want to cut US ALL OUT !! All of this ( 5pages of response ) has to feel overwhelming.....now not only is your SIL telling you how to raise your daughter....but all us mother-hens ( me included
I like what Andrewsmom said....I'm not a huge Dr. Phil fan...but we do tell others how to treat us and give them power over us. I also agree wholehartedly that your confidence in YOURSELF will be all that will get you through this(whichever way you chose to handle it)
I KNOW you can do it.....you survived one abusive relationship and no one can understand what a toll that takes from the victim. To even have the courage to contemplate making this change is huge. To find your self-confidence.....look back on what you have survived....look at how far you have come. Try to do small things every day to earn your OWN respect....don't try to earn theirs.....you don't need it.....just be proud of yourself and your accomplishments. Once you have done that.....their respect and consent will be the LAST thing you will be worried about.
I want to give you 100 % support and I'm glad the internet allows so many people to come together....but I also hate that we are all so far and unconnected beacuse I think you just need a REAL hug and a pat on the back.
Read all these posts, think on them.....and then do what YOU know is right for you and your family.
I'm sending you much positive energy and good thoghts........
Allisa
I'm a bit late on this dicussion too but,
Distance. Its really hard to do that when our lives are overwhelming and we need that extra help. But its the only way for you to stop this situation, and you will be ok. Decline the offers of help, and visit them WITH your children. Create distance anyway you can. It is non-confrontational, but it is work. I used to pack a big bag of stuff and head out for the day to where ever- the park, beach, mall where I was just unavailable, and it wasn't easy on me to do this but it did help a situation I had.
YES it sounds like a good idea. The therapist should be very supportive in helping you get your role back. BUT ... the bulk of that burden still rests with YOU.
YOU must assert yourself against these people. And it could indeed get ugly:
My husband's father had to do this, against his SIL and her husband. My husband's mother was found dead on the floor next to his crib, when he was 3 weeks old. Her sister had infertility (actually she had EIGHT miscarriages). My FIL had three sons, and this woman tried to get ALL of them away from him to raise as her own. She kept them for weeks and sometimes months. And ... she and her husband believed in corporal punishment (this was the 50's, folks). LOTS of it.
He eventually got his kids back, and in fact cemented his custody by marrying a single, "unwed," mother, who was also trying to maintain custody. The relationship with the IL's never mended, however.
Keep us posted on this situation and HOLD ON TO YOUR TRINITY FOR DEAR LIFE!! Also, Snoopywoman has given you terrific advice, she has professional experience.
I think that is a good idea. I would discuss it in-depth with the therapist first to make sure it is handled correctly and that she knows all the facts (i.e. what she will be up against). That way she hopefully won't be blind-sided.
Also, get the stuff in place I talked about previously - just in case. I don't know these people, so it's hard for me to say for sure - but, I would have my bases covered in case this explodes at the therapist's meeting. I would take a few weeks between now and the meeting to get things "under control" at your house (I'm typing this surrounded by unpacked boxes right now - so I DO understand that will be difficult and I feel a little hypocritical
Pangle, this will not be easy. Try to write down how you you want to handle it - maybe even make up an agenda and go over it with the therapist. Practice saying your "speech" over and over - even in front of the mirror. Unfortunately, you may not get past whatever your first sentence is - if they start interrupting. Hopefully, the therapist will be assertive enough (and you, too!) to intervene and make sure that everyone gets to have a say. Her job should be as a mediator - which means to keep people from saying awful things and to keep everyone on track of what the agenda is. You should be running the meeting though and saying what you want to say to them. The therapist should back you up, but it should come from you mostly. You are Trinity's mommy and that should be made clear from the get-go. Saying that it has been a hard year and you appreciate their help, but you feel that has led to things getting confusing for Trinity. She needs to be with her mommy full-time and understand that you are her caretaker and provide for her needs. And that you are fully capable of doing that.
Don't back down whatever you do!
Again, sending good thoughts and wishes your way!
Edited to say: I forgot to ask - is this the therapist that is an intern? Depending on her experience (which I'm guessing isn't much) and age, this might be difficult for her to do without a supervisor involved. I would hate to see this blow up in your face. Even very experienced therapists can have difficulties with this type of family...
I have to agree with Horseless here.
I would just cut them off too. No more weekends etc. Take away any responsibility that they might have to your child. I'm not saying dis-own these people.....Just don't let them have your child to watch anymore. I would Still go to family functions etc.
About the therapist session...I think if they learn something about how to handle your child with therapy etc...it should come from you. I agree that they may interpret this as them having more power than they should. No one in my family goes to the therapist with me to talk about anything......I tell my family what is going on with my son and how I handle a situation.
I just think you need to take control back. You don't have to confront them...or talk to them about it...Just STOP letting them have her. She is YOUR daughter and needs to be at home anyway. You can even say that because of her ASD that you feel that consistancy and her staying in her own environment is best. Simple as that. Take care and keep us posted
Karrie
Nicole
they sounds psycho !!!
Pangle, Good luck . Thats all I dare to say here . For fear of people jumping on me LOLI think a wise man once said-'the only thing to fear is fear its self'
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