Just an informal survey - HOW MANY of you with children on the spectrum ALSO have the MR diagnosis? I read that 75 - 90 % of kiddos that have AUTISMhave MR in some level as well....
My sweet ds does.
Getting a valid IQ tests takes several things. One, an evaluator who knows the test and can manage the child. Two, a child who fully cooperates. Three, a child who can tolerate the length of a typical IQ test. Four, a child whose language is at the same level as the test. Since most of those criteria are iffy, especially with a very young ASD child, it's not clear how many of our children have IQ's below 60 (the criteria used by SSI, although 69 is the technical cut-off for MR). A much more useful score is the adaptive score. A test like the Vineland gives an approximation of how well a child is able to use his thinking ability and other functional skills to interact with his environment. After all, it doesn't matter what a child's IQ score is if he sits home and is unable to access anything functional. Young children tend to score well on adaptive tests of this sort (the opposite of IQ tests) because even NT young children are not expected to do all that much indepedently. However, the Vineland scores typically get worse as an ASD child gets older because SO much more is expected of a person as he or she ages. It is not at all unusual for an 18yo on the autism spectrum to have an IQ above 59 (the cutoff for SSI benefits) but have a Vineland Adaptive score of below 70 (69 is the cutoff for SSI benefits). What all this means is that ASD individuals have a greater problem APPLYING their intelligence, even if they have raw intelligence to begin with (sometimes VERY HIGH raw intelligence). For ASD kids with significant language delays, to get a valid IQ score, at all, a completely nonverbal IQ test like the Leiter is important. But completely nonverbal IQ tests are not often owned by school districts, so you may have to get an IEE to get that. And I wouldn't bother until the child is into elementary school.
The 75% MR stat is old, it is a stat that refers only to classically autistic kids, and most of THOSE scores are invalid because it's very typical for ASD kids to have wide scatter in the subtests of typical IQ tests, which invalidates the test.
Still, it is completely true that many ASD children also have MR. It is not part of the dx, but can occur comorbidly. I know PLENTY of MR individual without autism who lead fully independent lives. I know PLENTY of ASD individuals without MR who lead dependent lives. Autism is the far more serious issue. However, it can't be denied that concurrent MR makes things more difficult. Any individual person's native intellectual level affects that individual's ability to succeed. It's tru for you and me. It's true for our kids. However, higher intellect does not take away the awful affects of Autism. Only lots of good education -- and time -- can help that.
The girls were tested at three and Abigail tested in the MR range and Evie was just above the cutoff. At 4.0, they were retested and Abigail was in the low average range and Evie was in the average-average range. Both girls scored ~20 points higher on the non-verbal section than the verbal section. These were school tests for placement in special ed.
There was a ~25 point swing for both girls over that year, so I'm not sure which test, if either, is valid. I tend to think that they are not MR because their academic assessments show that they are advanced for their age, academically, so they are quite able to learn.
However, there're a lot of things they cannot do that typical kids their age can, so who knows?
Both of my kids weren't tested until just before they turned 6 (end of Kindergarten). They both had average scores. My youngest son has a significant language delay. If he had been tested when he was younger, I'm pretty sure he would have tested as MR.
Yesterday I posted an opinion piece called "IQ Tests - Still Wreaking Havoc." You might want to check it out.
Yes, I have two boys with Fragile X Syndrome and they both are considered MR.no MR with my son but he does score low in a few areas. Example: very poor small motor skillsMy son (pdd-nos) scored 75 on his IQ test done by the school district. To me, it almost made me cry because it was so close to the 70 score they told me was MR. At that time, I didn't know much about Autism and thought that was really bad news, but now I feel better that he scored that high being that he's nearly totally nonverbal.
Marilyn
Mom to Jay (age 3 pdd-nos), plus 3 other NT kids
IQ tests were developed by the army to test WWI draftees. The tests were never supposed to predict anything more than fitness to serve in a war. However, they were designed to measure academic ability (since it was considered a good predictor of soldiering ability of the boy had reasonably good academic ability) so these tests were quickly co-opted by schools for predicting academic success. And they are used this way to this day. That is ALL they predict -- academic success. And they do that to a reasonably good extent. Except with autism, because IQ tests were never designed to work with individuals whose actual thinking PROCESS is different. They were designed to gauge intellectual horsepower, not the individual's intellectual transmission system. So that is why IQ tests are less likely to be accurate with autistic individuals. Our kids' problems focus more on the ability to process what happens in life than to memorize or think in academic ways.
Temple Grandin, inventor of a widely used and humane cattle handling device, doctor, and author of a book on autism, is autistic and was diagnosed as MR as a child...the way an autistic person's mind works is too unique and, in my opinion, too complex to be accurately measured by these kinds of assessments. IQ and related tests simply cannot measure the intelligence of an autistic child for the fact that intelligence comes in so many different forms. A lot of doctors, pediatricians, psychologists, and teachers would have you believe there's no use in educating these kids, as was the case with my brother who was in special ed. all his life and received a deplorable excuse for an education, but that's a crock. I know he's very intelligent, has an astonishingly accurate memory for things he's seen on TV, as well as a sophisticated sense of humor and sensitivity to the feelings of others. If they would have just used a television or computer to teach him in school, he would have gotten all As...instead, they tossed him in a class with terribly lude and disruptive kids and an incompetent teacher who never "taught" the class a single day in her life, threw worksheets (read: busy work) at them, and had NO control over the classroom. Anyway, MR kids are beautiful and are some of the kindest, most intuitive people I've ever met, but placing a label on someone so young can really affect the way others treat them and may not even be ACCURATE. It's a shame that some places require IQ tests, in my opinion.Yes. A "multidisciplinary evaluation" always includes some kind of assessment of intelligence. What everyone here is saying, is that simply giving an IQ test doesn't always indicate the intelligence level. If a child does not fully cooperate or finish the exam, if there are large discrepencies in subtests, if the test is verbal and the child is nonverbal -- these are render the test invalid. That doesn't stop the District from giving the test, but it also doesn't mean that the score is correct. For example, if someone gave me an IQ test in Chinese, my score would be zero -- they'd think I was brain dead!
IQ tests cannot be avoided. Appropriate ones can be given, or reports from the evaluator can be written giving a professional assessment of the validity or invalidity of the particular test given. Parents can also ask for IEE's to get a second opinion outside of school. NEVER refuse to have your child's IQ tested once the school asks. You will lose your right for your child to get a Free Appropriate Public Education until the IQ IS tested. Hearing Officers see lack of parental consent as obstructing. You can try to negotiate for a certain type of IQ test or get your own psychologist to give a different test. But IQ MUST be assessed. Most people who work with young, developmentally disabled children, know that IQ scores are never that valid until into elementary school, especially for language-impaired kids. Just allow the test and move on until such time as your child is old enough and developed enough to cooperate and take a real stab at doing well.
My son just got the diagnosis on Tuesday. He scored a 68 on the test. I dont fully believe it. And I think over time it will raise. I just know my lil boy is smart
Myth #4: "Autistic people are mentally retarded."
Boy, old thinking dies hard, doesn't it? Mental retardation requires an IQ of less than 70, which would put you in about the bottom 10% of the population. I am autistic and my last IQ score was 138, which is in the top 1%. Now, either I am an exceptional anomaly or maybe the old school of thinking should be re-thought.
Many of the autistic preschoolers I worked with had a normal vocabulary level or better, and could tell colors and shapes better than some of their NT classmates, and performed better on reasoning tests than some of their NT classmates.
On the other hand, I had a number of other autistic preschoolers who were very distant and were way behind in all cognitive areas. And there were a few that fell in between the really high ones and the really low ones.
So even in a sample size as small as 12 to 15 I saw a spectrum-like distribution as far as cognitive ability is concerned. This same type distribution is seen in NT cognitive ability, as most IQ tests are actually designed for NTs to begin with.
That brings me to what I believe is the main issue. This issue is with IQ testing in general -- it is in fact designed for NT children. Thus there are many language and interpersonal skills that come into play both on and off the paper that can make it hard for a child with autism to focus. This can range from the way the questions on the test are presented to the way the test itself is presented to something as off the wall as the color, temperature, location, etc. of the testing area or even whether or not the child is comfortable with the person administering the test. Any of these sensory distractions can and will confuse and disrupt a child who has sensory issues, since most young children (even NT) are not mature enough to be able to persevere through discomfort. Since autistic children are more likely to be affected by these sensory problems, they are more likely to become distracted and thus more likely to do poorly on the test.
So what we're seeing here is not necessarily a lack of intelligence, but rather an inability to apply that intelligence in a manner that conforms to the testing format.
Although there are many autistic children who do indeed (all technicalities aside) suffer from mental retardation, there are also many non-autistic children who do as well. And there are certainly many autistic children whose cognitive ability (if not standard IQ) falls in the normal range with still others who score well above average.
Because autism is a spectrum disorder and includes many levels of cognitive ability, I will have to say that this myth is essentially FALSE. However, there is no denying that almost all autistic children, regardless of intelligence level, will have deficiencies when it comes to performing satisfactorily in a mainstream environment.
My son (pdd-nos) scored 75 on his IQ test done by the school district ...
Marilyn
Mom to Jay (age 3 pdd-nos), plus 3 other NT kids
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How possibly can one measure the IQ for a 3 years old child?
I personally do not think it has any value.
Daddy
The school psych gave Andrew an IQ test and it was something like 55. SHe threw it out cause she honestly didn't believe it. Adaptive though was pretty high. I don't believe for a second they are MR, so I am trying to avoid IQ tests as much as possible cause I'm afraid especially now they will test MR. Here where I live you WILL have an( MR - IQ) test or you get NO SERVICESI know several teens and young adults without autism whose IQ's are around the 75 range. Not MR, but not the sharpest knives in the drawer from an IQ standpoint, either. Their IQ scores are valid and have been repeated over time, with no significant scatter. These kids have difficulty with academic subjects. They have NO difficulty in life. They speak fine, have friends, drive cars, get married, hold jobs. Most don't go to college, but otherwise lead pretty typical adult lives. I know LOTS of kids on the autism spectrum with IQ's in the gifted range. ALthough many DO go to college, they have other issues. Many can't drive cars, not because they can't learn but because their executive functioning (aka, judgement) is so poor, they'd get in accidents. Some have advanced degrees but can't even keep entry level jobs because of poor skills with bosses, coworkers and clients. I know some who know higher math but can't make change. These are not people I've read about, they are people I personally know, both the ones I described with autism and the ones I desribed with low IQs but no autism. From my observation, autism has much more of a negative affect on a child's life than mental retardation. Are some kids with autism mentally retarded? Yes. Are most? We don't know. The odds are that if your child can learn to read at a level above the 2nd grade and can add, subtract, multiply and divide without a calculator, he or she is not mentally retarded. THESE are the tasks that are beyond kids with MR, even if they don't also have autism.
There are two reasons why getting IQ scores is important and only two:
1. Because testing the IQ is required to get services under IDEA.
2. Because if a true IQ score CAN be gotten, it can help predict the eventual outcome for the child, if prediction is important to you. As with ALL human beings, ASD kids with higher IQs get further in life than ASD kids with lower IQs. The problem is, it is VERY hard to truly know the IQ of an ASD kid, so recorded IQ scores among ASD kids are much less predictive than recorded IQ scores among NT kids.
It's just a number. No child can be denied a necessary service or intervention due to an IQ score. We ALL want our kids to be smart. And smart has little or nothing to do with a number on a test. You know your chid's intellectual strengths and weaknesses because you KNOW your child. That should be enough.
BTW, my own son's IQ score on the Leiter is 92. On the WISC, it's 57. (To have a 30 point or more difference between these two types of IQ tests is not unusual). That's because he's got the language of a preschooler. His academic level (reading, writing and arithmetic) is about 4th grade. His Vineland is about 60. So, functionally, I would say that he is retarded. What I mean by that is that he functions in life about like a person without ASD who is known to be MR. The fact that his academic work, while not "normal" is above what can be expected from someone with MR, makes little or no difference in his life.