Fear of therapist?? Plz help | Autism PDD

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The therapists were very tactful in letting me know "why" I couldnt react or respond to the behaviors... but the mommy in me would slip so many times in the beginning..especially if her nose was dripping to her chin

    It was and will always be the toughest thing to do for me and  our family to master in getting rid of inappropriate behaviors..

we mess up but always come back to doing the same technique and Sarah has less behaviors than nt kids:) ..well most days anyway ;~P

My son is the king of anti-learning behaviors as well. He is very willful.
I agree with what Foxl stated. "She will go far" . She is learning something
by the way. That crying so far is not getting her what she wants, out of
therapy and with Mommy.   When Mason was younger, if he completed a set
of programs he would get Mommy time. That worked as a great reinforcer
for a while.Rita - did you therapist spend a good deal of time "pairing" with your child?  If she's an ABA therapist, I'm sure she's familiar with this, but by the book, I think she should have spent the first couple/several weeks placing NO demands on your daughter, but simply enticing her with her favorite things and activities until your child viewed your therapist as a 'source of all things good' and then, gradually, start introducing work into the pairing, slowly.  Is this what happened?  Keep in mind, I'm more familiar with the ABA/VB approach, so if this is old-school Lovaas style ABA, then perhaps pairing isn't emphasized at the beginning but compliance is?  In any case, I'm curious if this therapist took the time to pair and bond with your child before placing demands on her. fred39265.3898148148

Well sometimes there are good REASONS why a child might cry when you are leaving them. There are instances where the caregiver/therapist is not "getting" the child and is doing things that are not good for them. This is rare, but I try to figure out why my child is crying first - which you are definitely doing.

Sometimes kids are having rough days as well. This happens with NT kids as well. I know I went to the same gym since before my dd was born. One day we went in and she burst into tears - and these are people she's known her whole life! It turns out later that day she developed a high fever and was sick.

Ds doesn't often get upset when I leave him with someone else - but when he does, I pay attention. Specifically because he doesn't often do that. He is a pretty good judge of character, so I definitely take cues from him. Sometimes he is upset because he's having a rough day or because he's getting sick too. But, I always investigate first.

I think the idea of having a monitor in the room is great. I always leave the room when ds is having a therapy session or evaluation. He does MUCH better without me there. It took me about 6 months to figure that out though! We don't get therapies in our home (wish we did!) so the monitor isn't an option as where we used to go was in a hospital setting.

What kind of therapy is this? Is it speech, OT, PT? I'm guessing that whatever therapy it is, it is hard for her. Most kids do not enjoy doing things that are hard and frustrating for them. And for our kids, it is even worse and causes a ton of stress. My guess is you are her comfort zone - and that is great. But, she does need to learn to be without you. Maybe she could have an object of yours to hold onto? Or a stuffed animal just to comfort her? I don't know if that would interfere with therapy or not - but it might be worth a try.

Separation anxiety is very difficult - I don't know if this is to an even greater extent than that, but it might be. I am guessing you don't have any concerns about this therapist as you have been in the sessions up until now - but are there things the therapist can do to help her feel more comfortable? Like just do a little free play to "warm up"?

Sorry I'm not more help!

Thanks you guys for great advice....

I am the type who leaves the therapist UNINETRRUPTED in that I NEVER butt in if she is disciplining my dd even if I see my daughter sprawled on the floor flinging her arms and legs!! I am a very INSENSITIVE person like that!! :)  Bec I do believe in discipline.. infact I never have given in to tantrums bec tantrums get on my nerves!! My concern is that my daughter will cry for 45 mins straight - and by cry I mean HOWL.... and th emin she sees me in close proximity, she will stop the crying.. so she IS manipulating us all. As cute as it sounds, she is NOT learning..

The therapist is ABA trained ( not a BCBA) so she is making my daughter work for stuff! Its just unreal how she howls and this is a recent development, hence the concern.

When my son first started, he would cling to me as well. Our Psyche told us
that it is a good thing as some kids did not notice when you left the room.
It is sweet that she is so attached to you. Your therapist is right about her
being able to respond to other people. She needs to generalize what she
has learned in different settings as well. Yes please leave the room. Your
daughter otherwise may develop avoidance behaviors. You can video tape
the session to make sure things are done right if you are concerned about
leaving her alone with the therapist.

My therapist suggested the baby monitor thing to me.  That is my plan.  If it were me, I would leave, but that is the type of person I am.  If they cry when I leave them at the gym childcare to work out, it does not stop me from going, ever. I always figure that giving in, or staying around just shows them that their poor behavior is working.  Just my 2 cents

Yes, my dd would manipualte the HECK out of me, to get out of therapy!  She did it more by being cutesy than by howling but ... same goal -- to AVOID THE WORK OF THERAPY.

Do not let yours do  this -- if you can eavesdrop or use a crib monitor to observe (for learning purposes

She howls and shrills so much like someone were pounding her down.. What should I do? I have been VERY stringent and never go her rescue but should I intervene???

the best is you go away . kids can be very smart when they dont want to be in therapy and pretend they tired etc...my son use to do this and as soon she left he was all happy. kid sget frustrated with routine ,especially if there are new like meeting a therapist every other day at home. Shelley also made some great points about consistency. We've had this screeching behavior occur when he would prefer to do something else. We had to put it through extinction. Somehow the behavior was being reinforced for quite sometime (I think it was his little brother clapping everytime he screeched.). It took longer to extinguish it because we were not all being consistent by ignoring and following through with the demand. I agree all need to be consistent and you may need your husband to sit through a meeting with the therapist so he understands the importance.I would not give into the urge to intervene.  She has to learn that her avoidance by tantrum is not going to get her out of her ABA.  H tries to turn away and be fussy but eventually starts to like therapy interaction.

Rita, (Print me out and place on fridge


Sarah did this as a means of escape..it is very very hard to ignore her..but you have to gently turn her over to the therapists even if it means leaving the house.  The reason is that if you give her attn or react to her at all she is going to scream everytime they come and because YOU responded to it even once..she is going to scream even LOUDER and LONGER because it worked for her before so it may again. 

     The hardest thing I had to learn during therapy and when she wasnt in therapy was to not respond to her tantrums/crying or screams at ALL because it only caused all the hard work and progress she made to stall  because the therapy  time was spent trying to get her behavior under control again...

     We(family) would mess it up at night by giving in to her and then when the therapists came the next day she was a noncompliant screaming little girl that took hours to get her back on track...I had to learn the hard way to ignore it..Sarah was so indifferent to me so when she was crying for me it tore me up not to respond to her...but I quickly realized she was doing it  more to get out of therapy than me.

      The therapists wanted to kill me each time I intervined..but they just reminded me through gritted teeth of "WHY" I cant respond to her when she is screaming or any behaviors she came up with to escape..they are clever little boogers!

     You may have to have a meeting with husband and therapists to have them explain to him as well of "why" you cant react or respond to these behaviors and why it erases all work they have done...we had to have several of these meetings! No one in family wanted to hear her cry or tantrum so we appeased her every whim but as soon as we ignored her..the behavior escalated into a crescendo called a "Behavioral burst"~kinda a last ditch effort to get her way...and then it slowly got less and less till the behavior extingushed itself all together:)

       NEVER take away a demand if she screams or has fits...make her do it no matter how much she resists even if it takes all day for her to do it..she will learn that she cant get out of learning by screaming..esp. important when she is in school!

    Be tough! I know how hard this is to go through..get some earplugs:)

     They are not hurting her whatsoever...our kids want control over their environment so bad and dont want anyone to impose our world on to them..this has to be broken down so to speak in order for her to learn. I still use this method and it works everytime..even use on dh when I need too!

    Best of luck Rita....I have been in your shoes and I assure you it will get better....one day you will be in my shoes singing the praises of ABA and how far your daughter progressed and will be eternally grateful..

     The child you have right now is going to change so dramatically that people will swear she is a different child but it takes a long time to notice the big changes..we did it for 3 years so pace yourself and find solace in knowing that she is getting the best help available:) PM me anytime:) 

Blessings,

Shelley

ShelleyR39265.4495949074

Great post, Shelley.  I am thinking back to the EI therapists ... and how hard it must have been for them to deal with parents (although they always told me, it was worse to have disinterested parents, bless their kindness to me!).

But the hardest part is, it is SO counterintuitive to not "protect" your baby!  Of course, nobody would tell us we are doing anything wrong, and we are not.  But ... not the most constructive reaction, either.

Any kid is going to fight working for the therapist, and our kids, especially.  Then the therapists must find a balance between saying it is the parents' fault, or that something is "wrong" with the kid.  One tricky act!

This seems like an incomplete thought to me ... do I make sense?

foxl39265.4549768519

Rita, she is WILLFUL, and that is GOOD!  Scrappy child.  She will go far!

Hopefulyl she will get the idea soon that the howling is exhausting, and she STILL must do the therapy, though!

I agree with Fred about the "pairing". Because our therapists did that we had a smooth transition to making the demands. My son brigthens up when they come and drops me like a hot potato. He did use to have anxiety about me leaving him with others or dropping him off at school. We had one-two weeks where he wanted me to go downstairs with him for therapy. We practiced the transition where he says goodbye to us all and then goes down without me. I do pop in, listen in (hiding on the staircase--with the therapist's knowledge and use a baby monitor. I wish I had a video monitor to watch too. I agree it's important to let the therpists deal with the discipline. If you come in and rescue when she gets upset/sad it will make the therapist's job even tougher.My son did the same thing with his therapist when he first started.  I never intervened unless poop was involved (sorry, kind of gross, but true).  I could have charted his crying.  The tantrums got progressively shorter over time and now he runs to the door to meet the therapist and gets mad at ME if I interrupt his session!

Fred/FLip - yes, the therapist did spend time familiarizing herself with my daughter - "pairing" and having plain fun!! Splashing water - jumping included!! Infact my dd was fine with her when I used to leave the room and would occasionally cry  but these days she does notlisten to ANYONE else other than myself - even my hubbby stands no chance so with the therapist, there is excessive howling/crying/. I am OK with it but the howling goes on for 45 mins to an hr - continuous without learning and that bothers me.. I guess I will wait it out tho bec I defi don't want ym dd to think that crying is a way of avoiding therapy.

[QUOTE=fred]Rita - did you therapist spend a good deal of time "pairing" with your child?  If she's an ABA therapist, I'm sure she's familiar with this, but by the book, I think she should have spent the first couple/several weeks placing NO demands on your daughter, but simply enticing her with her favorite things and activities until your child viewed your therapist as a 'source of all things good' and then, gradually, start introducing work into the pairing, slowly.  Is this what happened?  Keep in mind, I'm more familiar with the ABA/VB approach, so if this is old-school Lovaas style ABA, then perhaps pairing isn't emphasized at the beginning but compliance is?  In any case, I'm curious if this therapist took the time to pair and bond with your child before placing demands on her. [/QUOTE] 

I agree with Fred, the therapist has to find a different approach, pairing worked wonders for us.

Another thing to consider.... What is the location like?  Is it possible that she is going into sensory overload from the environment?  That also played a factor with my son and his O/T.  His O/T office was in a fitness center....very echoey, lots of racket from weight machines, tennis courts, climbing walls, no windows, bad lighting, kids runing in the hall....all of these things were a huge factor.  Poor kid couldn't concentrate and had a hour melt down from the minute we got to the building, to the minute we left. Once he was in the car, in his car seat, he was fine.  But not the kind of fine like he had won the battle to avoid therapy, but as if he was trully RELEIVED for the security of his car seat and for the peace and quiet.

Just  a thought...
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