tackling fear of public restrooms | Autism PDD
Hi Sallys ~ I feel your pain!!!!
My son too has a fear of public bathrooms! (glad it's not just us)...he's 8 1/2 and still has a problem...if it's an emergency and we finally coax him into going, he'll just tear out of there as quick as can be...we can't flush till he's at the door...and god forbid it's packed.
He's the same way at school. We believe it's the echo, just too noisy, plus with all the other kids around --- and they ARE pretty loud at that age! It's in his IEP that he uses the nurse's single bathroom.
Again, I'm sure it's the noise...because he does the "flush and run" move at home....and he does cover his ears in the public ones.
Good luck!!!
~Lesley
You sound so remarkably patient! What a blessing for your child to have such a patient mom!
I have no words of advice for you, but it sounds like you have a great plan.
My oldest child was one of those eager trainers... If there were 4 stalls, we were in the bathroom 4 times, 10 stalls, 10 times, etc... We had to stop going out to eat, b/c I'd spend all of dinner in the bathroom. I was always annoyed by it. After reading your post though, I'm quite grateful. So thank you for allowing me to see things from your perspective! :) It's funny how much we take for granted. I'm already realizing that w/ my son.
We're just starting to potty train our son. I just wish he could communicate w/ me more! I feel like if he could, potty training would go so much easier...
Good luck to you! You really seem to have it all together!
Ftlse, thanks but I definitely don't FEEL patient. I appreciate your nice words though, it really helps to hear sometimes! Lesley, how did you get your ds to the point where he would actually go into and use a bathroom even though he is scared. Or do you have to force him? Do you live your life around finding potties he'll use or how do you manage. I didn't know something like that could be in an IEP, that's good to know.
Just wanted to say that the bathroom adventure today was a complete and utter disaster that left us both in tears. She was doing quite well, actually, standing closer to the bathroom without distress than I had anticipated. That would have been a good start to build on, EXCEPT I actually HAD to go myself quite badly. So I had to force her in which was BAD BAD BAD. She was screaming (high-pitched scream) and crying and yelling "don't wanna go potty" over and over and struggling. I had to phsycially force her into the stall and she did her clawing to get out thing. Once we were out though, she was still not happy. She screamed as loud as she could (she was MAD!) and kept yelling and crying "do you want to go to the potty. NO!" over and over. This was in the middle of Nordstrom at the mall and we were a loooong way from the car. I had to get her out of the store, through the parking lot with her crying and screaming and being echolalic like that the whole way. It was the longest walk of my life.
I think it would have been a lot better if I didn't have to go myself because then I wouldn't have had to force her to go in with me. I know, if I've got to go, I've got to go, but I don't think today's incident is going to get us anywhere and it just makes me feel defeated (and her too). Like I can't even go to the bathroom. I hate that feeling of panic I get when we're out and I have to go to the bathroom. I have to decide if I can hold it, curtail the trip or force her to go with me. I keep trying to tell myself, it could be a lot worse. The problems with her that I deal with could be a lot worse. But sometimes, it just gets to me and it all feels so hard and overwhelming. I mean all I'm trying to do is meet a basic bodily need of my own, I'm not even asking HER to DO anything.
I didn't dare look anybody in the eye but I could still see and feel the looks. One sweet lady helped me close the bathroom stall when I was trying to get my struggling dd in there and I looked at her. She made me want to cry because her eyes lacked that shocked and horrified look most people give me - they were kind and that is so rare to see when your child is screaming, crying and being echolalic in the middle of a bathroom. Maybe she knew.... Ah, well, we'll try again tomorrow. One good thing for me is that I managed to stay completely calm and in control thorughout the whole ordeal. It wasn't until we were safely in the car that I feel apart. I guess this is going to give me that tough-skin I've been trying to develop
I know for most things that are difficult for him, it takes a lot of talking about it, way ahead of time, so if I were to just go and spring something on him...it just won't fly. In my personal experience (now that I know it's a problem) we 'go' before we leave the house, but leaving, and on the way, and once we're whereever we need to be, I mention to him that we WILL have to go soon...and of course he says no no no...but I just keep (calmly) talking about it so he knows it's inevitable. Again...I can't push too hard on anything with him...even too stern a voice and I lose him...it's just constant talking about it, why, when, how, reassuring that we can leave right away and promising not to flush till he's close to the door!!
Again, it's because he's older that we've figured out it's the noise/echo...and we're able to talk about it now. I don't know for sure. All I do know for sure is that everything takes preparation and forewarning....and sometimes I think that's bad too...I'm not really preparing him for the very likely "unpredictability" of things.
Good luck!!!
~Lesley
BUT, THIS HAS BEEN THE VERY THING THAT HELPED OUR COMMUNICATION THE MOST!!
Over the years, she's learned that she can trust me. I will do WHATEVER it takes to keep her from being that terrified. Everytime I forced her to go, we took a giant step backwards. The more she trusts me, the more she is able to share what it is she is feeling. We plan around where we are going. I know every toilet in my hometown. I know if she can handle it or not. I always promise to look before I make her go in. You wouldn't believe the crazy things I've done...stopping people at the door....asking people not to flush. Most people are pretty understanding. And if they're not...well...screw em.
The one thing I've learned from our toilet adventures is this.... It doesn't matter if it makes sense. It doesn't even matter why it exists. The one thing that matters to me is that my sweet daughter fears for her life in a public bathroom. I will do everything I can to help her. The more that she trusts this, the better things get.
She now asks questions about the bathroom instead of screaming in fear. "Is it a tall potty?" "Is it a stick handle?". It's taken years to get to this point. I wasted too much time trying to fix the situation instead of just going with my gut instincts.
Thanks everyone! This is definitely going to be an on-going issue and it is a big one to tackle (as it comes up every day) so it really helps to have you all to bounce things off of.
Kristi, you've really given me something to think about and I am finding myself changing my stance on this whole issue. I WAS thinking it of something I had to "fix and fix right now, she's 3 1/2 by gum", but now I realize from your experience that that is just me setting an unrealistic and totally arbitrary timetable on something that can't really be "fixed" (fear) in the first place.
I really liked what you said about it not mattering if it doens't make sense or even the why of it, because I do tend to get hung-up on the whys of things and get bogged down trying to figure things out. The things you wrote about your experience really changed my perspective on this, so I thank you for that and for sharing.
I have a few questions for you since you are further along in this bathroom journey than I am. How did you work on getting your dd to the point where she would actually GO into a bathroom, or ask questions about it, let you look for her or otherwise be able to function around and/or in a bathroom? What was that whole process like? My dd won't even go near the bathroom at somebody else's house (like grandmothers or friends), did you dd have that too?
I totally agree that the more I force (and I only force when I have to go myself) the more setback she gets. How did you deal when YOU had to go yourself and you were out or traveling alone? How long did your dd wear pull-ups or diapers? Is she totally in underwear now, even though still afraid of bathrooms? Any more details on your experience would really help me - and others here dealing with the same issue. Thanks!
My dd (3, pdd-nos), while potty trained okay at home, is petrified of public bathrooms. She just gets this stricken deer in the headlights look if I so much as mention having to go to the bathroom in public and then throws herself on the floor and cries and screams NO NO NO. That's just when I need to go! I don't even TRY to make HER go!!
At home she uses the toilet pretty well, has lots of accidents and needs lots of coaxing but she sorta gets it. She wears pull ups whenever we go out. It's not a matter of her having accidents in public, but since she absolutely won't use the potty or even go INTO one, I can't see taking her out in underwear. She doesn't care about being wet or going in her pants or anything like that. I do think going back and forth between pull ups (in public) and underwear at home is just too confusing for her to really GET it, especially because with school and outings, etc. we tend to be out more than in.
I don't know for sure what is so scary for her, as she can't tell me, but my guess is it's the noise. When I do take her in the stall with me (sometimes I avoid it and sometimes I just force her because I HAVE to go) she screams and cries and yells and claws at the door to get out. Now that she's more verbal she'll say "do you want to open door?" over and over. I've noticed that it's a little better if I don't flush, so that's why I think it might be the noise. But there is all the other flushers in there. Then there's all the looks I get when that happens or when I'm carrying a screaming child out of the bathroom or I'm overheard reassuring my dd that "it's okay, we don't have to" when I mention trying the potty, etc. etc.
Anyway, I'm going to be working with gradual exposure on this issue. I've done it here and there, but I'm going to make it more of a focus now. She has shown signs of being ready, I'm the one dragging my feet because how do you psych yourself up for such PUBLIC embarrassment. I mean, I have to knowingly go out into public meltdown mode, there is no other way to get her over it than for her to see that she can do it. She has had so many fears (of stores, people, etc) that I've seen/helped her overcome through gradual exposure that I know this will work if I am willing to do it and take the time and have the patience. She's amazing in her ability to learn and conquer fears. Truly awe-inspiring!
Some signs I think she's ready are (it's been a while) but last few times I forced her into a public bathroom when I had to go she didn't cry until in the stall (usually starts well before we enter the bathroom), and she recovered right away after we left, whereas it used to be a guaranteed 30 minute meltdown afterwards with me carrying her out of the store kicking and screaming. Also, she used to not let me take her into the bathroom at her school (which is inside her classroom) but the other day she did and we talked about her using the potty (I was changing her pull up) and she didn't run away or look scared. She was smiling a little, almost like she wanted to. I didn't want to push, so I dropped it (telling her she could do it if she wanted, could try next time, etc. etc.) but I think I could have just put her on the toilet and she would have been okay. I'm definitely going to try more at school since that's a pretty "safe" toilet and she sees her peers use it every day.
I guess all this post is just an attempt to psych myself up for the big task ahead. We're going out today just to see how she does. We talk about it and she has mini-goals - I'm not expecting her to walk right in and go for a loooong time -and she seems interested in that she doesn't cry when we talk about it and she participates to her level in the conversations about it. She will get rewards for certain steps, each one building on the other. First, we'll see how close we can get to the door without crying, then through the door, then staying for a few seconds/minutes, then going in the stall, then eventually actually going. Each step will take a long time to master and it'll be a long process and I'm in no hurry to rush it. She sets the pace but I am going to expose her to it more than either of would like that's for sure. There really is no other way out of this than through it!
Does anyone else have/had kids with this problem? How do you deal with it? What has helped/hurt with the process? Any suggestions? Also, I was hoping to be able to post about the ups and downs here from time to time as we go through it. It's one of those things people don't really understand - how draining and exhausting and hard it is and I know I'm going to need all the support I can get! Thanks.
One more thing, I get sooo jealous when I see other moms bringing their toddlers into public bathrooms without so much as a second thought to how lucky they are! I see it all the time. I NEVER have seen another child act scared of the bathroom, but surely they must exist!!
And I can't tell you how many times I've been told by a mom that they have the opposite "problem" that their young potty trainer has to check out every bathroom at every place and how crazy it drives them..........grrrr Attn:Sallys
While searching for an old post, I found this one. I apoligize for not answering your questions on the subject. I don't know how I missed your post.
Jodie is still scared of public restrooms. The only thing I can tell you is that I just constantly worked around it. When I saw that she had to go to the restroom, I got down to her level and talked real sweet and quiet to her. I knew is that she was scared of the noise. I would promise her that I would go in first by myself to see if it was a 'loud or quiet potty'. This was difficult if we were in town alone, but the trick was to just use your resources. Trying to look at the toilets while keeping your child in view is difficult, but not impossible. If nothing else, ask a store employee to help you.
It took a long time to convince her that I wouldn't make her go if it was loud. Her fear started when she was 4. She's almost 8 now and she still is skeptical of what I say because there were so many times in the beginning that I forced her into a bathroom with scary toilets.
I make sure that we go to the bathroom before we leave the house. And I always have a toilet plan before I leave. Like I said before, I know every toilet in this town and I know which ones are acceptable.
In the past,If we had to go in a public restroom, I would find one that had only one toilet and a lock on the door. I would take her to the door kicking and screaming and say over and over, "it's ok...we dont flush." After a while we were able to go into those kinds of bathrooms with no problems because she knew we didn't have to flush it.
There were exceptions to this of course. Automatic toilets are like the devil himself. I NEVER make her use those. We are planning a trip to Disney World in the spring. From what I understand, all of the park toilets are automatic. I am completely stumped on how to do this. But I know we'll work it out. Dirty bathrooms can throw her into a fit also.
I would try doing this at family and friends houses. Surely they won't mind you leaving the toilet unflushed until you can get the child far into another room.
As far as bathrooms with lots of stalls. Good luck. People get kinda ill when you go in and announce that no one is to flush. :-) As far as me having to go to the bathroom. I figure I better go before I leave the house and pray I can hold it. :O
My point is that there is always a way to work it out. I think that if you always follow your gut, you won't go wrong. Never think about 'what needs to be' or 'what should be'. Just think about your daughter and what she needs.
Also, Sensory Integration Therapy has helped Jo alot. She seems to be able to handle all of her fears better since she started.
Jodie wore pull-ups until she was over 4 yrs old. And she also had lots of accidents after she came out of them.
Good luck with all of your potty adventures!
Could you use the disabled restrooms? Here in Australia there is at
least one in a separate room, so only one toilet and you can't hear
anything from the other toilets. We are allowed to use them for all
sorts of disabilities not just for wheelchairs. You could investigate
with your local disabled access groups about this issue. We have laws
here about access for all sorts of diabilites and if you can
demonstrate a need then you can use those facilities.
I would consider practising in a shop that has only one toilet so you
have more control. Just get her to walk in and quickly take her back
out then praise her for going in. Then work up to going near the
toilet etc. Could you use headphones for the noise?
There is a procedure called graded change which works on desensitising.
If you can manage to get her used to using a single toilet in a public
place and then get her used to flushing etc then you may be able to
work up to busier bathrooms as she improves. Is it possible to ring the
management of these shops to find out if they have a private bathroom
that you could use, maybe the management offices ones, so you don't
stress her too much.
I think for now that I would try and not go into a busy bathroom with
her even if it means driving home to use yours. Every time she gets
upset it will slow down the process. Start small and work your way up.
I agree that sensory integration can help. It helped my son to focus
better and learn more.
Good luck and I hope it improves soon.
I was going to suggest something very similar to what Cheryl did. Try finding less crowded restrooms or "family" ones that are large with only one toilet. That we its less noisey and no other people are in there to distract or scare her. We'll go to the restrooms in the middle of departments in the mall instead of in the food courts etc. Our a lot of times the mall stores have single restrooms in the back for their employees to use and we'll ask to use those ;) unfortnately not much to do about restaurants though.
I know that automatic flushing toilets terrify my son. Unforutnately, 2 year olds arent tall enough to tell the thing not to flush so it'll flush several times while he's sititng on it and he HATES that. He actually will sit on them backwards so that he can watch the thing the entire time
Anyway, my son is also going to get sensory integration therapy (but coded as lack of coordination as this is shown to improve coordination and balance as well). I think this is also stopping him from being able to go to the toilet by himself - meaning without me being somewhere in the building. I think he relies on me to know if a toilet is too loud and to comfort him if it is. I am just realizing this while writing this! But, one of the goals on his IEP that we wrote today will be for him to learn to go to the toilet independently at school. He can do this at home with no problem, but we have the old-fashioned toilets that are not low-flow. Apparently, the new low-flow toilets are really horrendously loud - especially in public restrooms that echo.
My son will hold it for hours rather than go when I'm not there. Today I picked him up after a 3-hour pre-school camp (he went about 15 minutes before the camp started). I asked him if he had gone potty - no. So, I told him we needed to try and he trotted off to go and did. I just need to be in the building. I pack his picture schedule with him wherever he goes (it is from the Kandoo Pampers wipes box - it has a frog showing what to do when toileting and after). He just won't ask to go and won't go running to the bathroom unless I (or my husband) am there. He otherwise has no problem going in public restrooms.
He has been mostly potty-trained since the day he turned 4 and decided he was a big kid. We have had some accidents since - usually when he's particularly stressed. He is not night-trained, but he has had several dry nights - but it is not consistent. Right after school got out (end of May), we moved him to underwear only (except at night) and that made a huge deal. He turned 4 the second week of June, so it was a matter of less than 2 weeks before he decided he would go in the potty all the time. For pooping, it was much sooner than that as he was poop-trained by April.
I think preparation is key and I know that my son does better if he knows what's coming. If we have a sudden switch in routine, he doesn't do as well. He is better at transitions than most kids with ASD I've been told, though. He doesn't like sudden changes, but he will deal with them without meltdowns. But, I think that your daughter probably needs you to tell her each time you go out that mommy might need to go to the restroom in order to prepare her in case you do. Social stories might work as well.
Hope this helps!
I am sorry to hear what happened with your son---people's rudeness is absolutely horrid, especially when you try to comfort your child (I understand all too well)!!!
Actually, my daughter is finally showing some independance with using the bathrooms at school----she used to hold it most of the day and make our walk home miserable because she wouldn't always say that she needed to go, then oops!!!
Still gotta get on her about flushing and paper use
With my older NT daughter I always made her build a "nest" out of toilet paper because I couldn't stand it when she'd touch the seat - I probably passed on my wonderful phobias to the next generation there!
With Ansley, we can't go out into public yet long enough to have to worry about public restrooms - and she's no where near ready for potty training either so I have no experience with ASD kids and the potty, but I thought of something that might help.....
Anlsey used to have total meltdowns at the grocery store. Our OT (blessed saint that she is!) actually met us at our local grocery store and followed us around taking pictures of us. She even took pics of Ansley screaming and throwing food. We also took pics of her reward for good shopping (cool ranch doritos). Then at home I made a book that we constantly looked at and talked about the pics and our shopping trip. In the front of the book I placed a pic sim for shopping (Ansley is non-verbal). The very next time we went, I talked about it ALOT prior and let her hold the pic-sim on the way to the store. Guess what? We got through 20 minutes with NO crying or food-throwing, she was actually pleasant and had very little stimming! (at least until we got to the checkout line and they tried to give her a sticker, which she hates)! Anyway, maybe something like this will work with your DD in the public RR? I know it might look funny taking pictures of a bathroom -people gave us odd looks at the store - but who cares? We do whatever works right!
Also, are there any older kids that she likes alot that could maybe do some modeling for you? Hi, I have an 8 year old boy and going to public bathroom is pretty bad. I have to go in with him because he was trained to go sitting instead of standing when he has to go. So I have to make sure that the place where he goes is at least ok before he goes in and that could be a nightmare. Of course, we have to use the women restrooms which before it was not to bad with some women but know I feel like they started to give us the look you know the one that says shame on you what he can't use the boys bathroom? or isn't he told for this? which I don't care and don't pay attention at all. Sometimes I'm kind of waiting for someone to say something and I don't know how I would react yet but I changed so much now that I don't get easly embarrased anymore like I did at the beginning when Stphen used to have his melt downs in front of people. We are working with my husband in training him so that he could just go standing but even like that I'm not sure if I would feel comfortable letting go in to mens public restroom on his own when we go just the 2 of us. I guess I will have to wait and see what I could do in the future. the other thing of using women bathrooms are the long lines that are sometimes and when my son says I need to go is because he needs to go he might give me at least another 15-20 minutes but that's it. If anyone has any suggestions on how to deal with this it would be appreciated.
You aren't alone. My son is 3 1/2 and is also afraid of public restrooms. Most places that I take him I try to find a family bathroom (just one stall and large room) so that he can stand near the door if it is an automatic flush (which I think is his main issue). If it's a toilet similar to one we have at home-I talk to him about it being a "quiet one" like at home and he doesn't get as upset. My son isn't potty trained so I don't know what will happen when he is. Sounds like it is an issue that will be with him for a long time. He also has fears of motor cycles and holds on for dear life if we are outside and he hears one. Good luck and hope things get a little easier as time goes on. jcan
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