CDC announcement | Autism PDD
Jim Adams @ ASU in Arizona has been doing extensive research on this very topic. The only vaccine that is still produced with Thimerosal in it is the one for flu. Altho, old vaccines were never recalled and may still be on Dr's shelves. You just have to be careful.
As for the link between mercury & ASD's... I don't think mercury is linked to all cases, but it's certainly a coincidence that the first children with autism were identified in the 1940's, following the introduction of thimerosal into vaccines in the late 1930's.
I don't remember where I heard/read it, but I understand that somewhere in Europe they started vaccinating children at age 2 instead of birth and simultaneously noticed a dramatic decrease in the incidents of autism and ASD's in the years following.
I have to jump into this one.
Shots shouldn't be given to children if they have bad reactions to them. Anna did and each time they kept telling me since it wasn't right after the shot was given and she pulled out of it then it was better to keep getting shots....URG!
Why did I listen???? Now, my 2 yr old (hasn't gotten the MMR) but has had the others. I told myself if he had a reaction (high fever, vomiting, diareah) then I wouldn't allow anymore. He did great w/it. Now, anna is such a space cadet. Are shots to blame (I will never know)?
I don't have any faith in any establishments run by imperfect people who say they can produce perfect results. They can't be 100% sure. Not to mention, if there wasn't anything wrong w/them and they were 100% sure than why did they take the mecury out? Too suspicious for me.
My husband believes that there's actually no such thing as "autism," it's all just mercury poisoning. I have no idea, but I do know that when I was pregnant with Jacob, I ate about 3-4 cans of tuna a WEEK, thinking I was doing a good thing. They went public with studies when he was about 2 months old. I say they "went public" because it's not like they didn't already know there was a link, they just didn't tell anybody. I knew something was "different" about Jake when he was 4 months old. Regarding Jill's mesage from yesterday... just FYI, even if only for one's own personal benefit, here's some info on fish & mercury: http://www.oceansalive.org/eat.cfm?subnav=healthalerts. I found it about a month ago.According to ABC news Chicago the CDC just announced that there was nolink between Mercury in vacines and Autism. The newest report of course
comes out the day before protests and such in Washington.
The CDC is a joke. They are constantly recalling meds lately. It is so political it is pathetic.
Tammy
Yeah, and let's not forget how many of the members of the "panel" have financial ties to pharmaceutical companies...CDC stands for Center for Disease Control, meaning (we can control it, but we choose not to)Exactly. So I put no faith in them whatsoever. They can say all they want but people know the truth and they know that.
Tammy
the cdc is a crooked as .... wait i can't think of anything or anyone that is AS crooked as they are..... not trying to start a debate here (please, please dont get mad!!!) but i'm just curious. am i the only one that does not believe mercury and vaccines cause autism?Too much evidence out there to the contrary not to believe there isn't a link in some cases.
Tammy
Give me a break! How can they say there is NO LINK?? There is a new childhood vaccine out right now, I can't recall the name of it, but it is supposed to take the place of up to 4 different shots so the child doesn't have to get so many shots under age one. Well, you know one of the disclaimers in the commercial is: "This vaccine is not intended for children with a pervasive disorder" WTF do they think we are, idiots?? Oh mercury doesn't have a link with ASD, but don't use this vaccine on kids on the spectrum... It makes me sick!I agree Tammy. It may not be it in EVERY case but seeing is beliving and I KNOW the differences in my son I saw the fever I saw him slip away and there was NOTHING I could do!
They will never admit a linjk because it would cost them far too much money in damages to all the vaccine injured kids.
OMG Rachelle, What age is the kid supposed to get the shot? SO many people have no idea the kid has a pervasive disorder until they are 3 or older!!!!!
I'm so new to all this that I have NO idea what I believe. All I do know is that there is nothing good about mercury being put into anyone's body, let alone a little child. And no reason it should have ever been done.
Amber
ok i guess i should have specified. i dont think vaccines or mercury caused my daughters autism.as far as other autistic kids... i have no idea. they're not my kids. and i dont get upset when people do think mercury caused their child's autism. who knows, maybe it did. thats not for me to determine.
but i have a question. do you guys think mercury CAUSED autism, or TRIGGERED it? there is a difference between the two. i'm just curious. i've heard many parents say it both ways. it kind of confuses me.
Looking back Jeffrey did have symptoms before he was diagnosed and before the shots. But I do think it did contribute to it. Gabe was always developmentally delayed and in his case I do believe it did trigger some autism like behaviours. I know if Jeffrey eats too much tuna, which is loaded with mercury, he is real aggressive and agitated.
Tammy
Well my intesest is in finding out what caused autism in children where they showed obvious signs of it from birth. Is it the very first vaccines they rcvd? Or maybe it was mercury in the mother from older dental fillings and shots and what not? There is a big debate as to if it causes or triggers or has anything to do with it. I really don't know what I personally feel because I have seen both sides. I have talked to those who have proof of a very nt looking child and then after a vaccine the child changed very noticably. And then there's the case of my little cousin, who has shown very obvious signs since birth. Like I said either way no one should have ever put mercury in those vaccines or dental fillings and whatever else they added that crap to.
Amber
I never had mercury fillings.
Tammy
I know my son smiled and talked and cooed and made eye contact and played and communicated with us and was an awesome kid to age 12 months. I know he got his shots and a 106.3 temp that didnt drop below 104.1 for 8 days. I know he was NEVER the same after that and I watched him lay and stare and fuss and stop talking or playing or socializing or eating and start with all the autistic characteristics.... so you tell me.... YES I BELIEVE IT PLAYED A ROLE wanna review the month to month home videos I have?????
But I dont believe its THE ONLY cause
I had mercury fillings. Damn them. Sorry language. I didn't ever know they contained mercury though. When I had to get my last filling it had been yrs since I had needed one. The dentist said they use white fillings now because the silver ones used in the past contained traces of mercury that can be possibly dangerous if ever the woman becomes pregnant. I was like...well it was nice someone told me that back when I was 16!
Amber
Yeah doesn't that just irritate you. Its like "oh yeah forgot to tell you but we discovered years ago this could do this to you." Like we are mindreaders? Or is that covered in the manual that they never delivered?
Tammy
I had no fillings. My daughter was born this way. But there is so much evidence linking mercury and autism that one would be a fool to say that childhood vaccinations have nothing to do with Autism.I have a question, though. I don't know this to be a fact, but I'm pretty sure that I read that they quit using mercury in the vaccinations in '99. If this is true, wouldn't we see a decrease in Autism rather than the huge increase we've seen in the last few years?
I have done a good deal of research on thimerosal and other mercury contaminants as they relate to neurodevelopmental disorders.
I know there is a link, and so does the government. The issue of debate should really be...to what extent. Did you know that of mercury poisoning's 100 symptoms, 99 of them are also autistic traits? And, the CDC's satement is based on a study in Denmark. The study is quite flawed, in fact the data collected after they outlawed thimerosal says the rates of autism increased only because they didn't keep track before they rermoved thimerosal.
The vaccines that still contain thimerosal are the DTaP, Hep B, and influenza. Others contain trace amounts. Because children are getting so many shots at a time, even those trace elements can put them in a risk category for mercury exposure.
I was unaware, and while I wasa pregnant with my son, Elijah, I received 11 amalgam fillings. Then, when he was born (in 2002), he received all of his shots on schedule.
I don't think my son's disorder was caused by mercury although I do believe that many children are indeed poisoned by mercury. I am scared to death to give my 3 week-old daughter vaccinations. She still doesn't have her hep B shot yet.
My ds was born with other neurological problems. He had spina bifida, a portion of his corpus callosum is missing and a lipoma on his brain. I don't recall any regressions other than it seemed he used to smile much more when he was a baby. I had suspicions early on, even before he was a year old that something was wrong because of his lack of eye contact. He never lost speech, he was always behind in that area but reached physical milestones on time if not earlier than other children. But now - he is making so much progress. He is making good eye contact, being very affectionate, and I would guess he knows anywhere from 80 - 100 words, mostly nouns of course. He is still not putting together sentences to express his needs but does repeat things like "don't do that" and "are you ok?" at appropriate times.
I do recall eating a lot of fish in the weeks before I knew I was pregnant which is weird because I normally don't eat fish. I think that I read somewhere that eating fish helped with depression (which has been the story of my life). I also wonder if my previous eating disorders caused me to be deficient in folic acid and other B vitamins that may be the cause of his problems. I have beat myself up time and time again over the things I've done wrong that might have affected my ds. If I knew then what I do now I would have done so many things differently. I was also extremely sick during both pregnancies and dx both times with hyeremesis gravidarum. I couldn't even hold down water and lost 20 pounds during the first trimester alone with both pregnancies. I took Zofran to help curb the vomiting, and who knows what the link could be with my sons disorder. My depression? all that damn fish I ate? the Zofran? my eating disorders? Who knows.
All I can do now is pray for him and do everthing possible to make life easier for him. He has already come a long way and he does better and better each day.
Well as i have posted before We had a horrible expierence with the MMR and Chickenpox Vaccine! I honestly wish i could prove thats what caused the autism Since it is nowhere we know of in family history!!! I know one thing my child will never recieve another vaccine again!!!! And I do agree the CDC is a JOKE!!!
ok...LOL I'm gonna play devil's advocate here..lol
what about the children out there that have never recieved an imunization? Or been exposed to any mercury?
Karrie
From what I've heard about the therimisol is that the FDA outlawed the production of it in vaccines, so the vaccines are no longer being made. However those vaccines w/ it in them, were still allowed to be sold. Some distributors are still distributing the vaccine (legally) w/ the therimisol until there are no longer any left.
Does anyone know what % of children have an ASD? And what is the % of children having any kind of reaction (not necessarily autism) to a vaccine? Just curious...
My son reacted to the MMR, he actually got a mild case of the measles. He was 18 months old. I'm not sure that has anything to do with him being on the spectrum or not, but it certainly seems rather interesting. Perhaps it did "trigger" something. But if there is something there to be triggered wouldn't that happen eventually? In retrospect he did seem to change somewhat, but then again wouldn't the behaviors become more apparent around that time just because of his age? He's 30 months old and just got the initial diagnosis of having an asd. We're waiting for the psych eval to determine which one.
And someone mentioned the chicken pox vaccine... My daughter got the chicken pox anyway even after getting the vaccine... Should I worry about her too? She's 4.5.
This is all very overwhelming and frightening.
Christie
As in my casemy daughter got the chicken pox and the measles at the same time!! Both caused from the vaccine! It was a 3 month nightmare Blisters from head to toe! When she had the reaction She started Delays, Tantrums stopped making eye contact and lost the speach that she had! It took 2 yrs for me to hear mama or mom! I was dada too!
No not true, the FDA did not outlaw it, they suggested and recommended that the mercury be removed. There is a big difference there. And an organization did some testing of the vaccines and the mercury was still in it.
Tammy
There is still thermisol in the Flu vaccine, the MMR vaccine, and the newly introduced not that many years ago Hep B vaccine has thermisol in it. *smiles* found that out from Zach's Dr. when Jaydin was born.... and me the dumb "gonna do what they tell me" mother vaccinated Zach with the Hep B shot right at the hospitol when He was first born.... Not Jaydin... and right now Chris and i are contemplating looking for a new Dr. because ours says He can't get thermisol free vaccines... which i think is just a line of crap, although up till now He's worked with us and been very understanding of our concerns...
I am one of the believers that mercury is a FACTOR, not the main cause. I believe Zachary probably was predispositioned for Autism... His father has some Aspergers tendancies... anti-social, really set on routine, gets fixated on things sometimes. My brother has ADHD and didn't speak till He was four. My mother and sister both suffer from depression. So there is some mental disease in my family. However... Zachary was a neurotypically developing child untill He recieved His MMR shot and flu vaccine at 12 months old. He developed a 104.5 fever that kept going down and back up for a week. After that he started to regress and eventually wasn't there. I lived in Denial about Zachary's issue untill September of last year. I am one of the ones that holds the belief that our environment and the mercury colliding with our babies genes have caused this...
These are things to think about people.... Autism was not recongnized untill somewhere in the 1930's... now yes there is evidence to support that some of our more genius classical music composers and artists had a form of an ASD.... but it wasn't how it is now.... The other thing is... i'll go look for it, but Michelle posted an article about the Amish community and autism. Why doesn't Autism exist within the Amish community??? Could it be because they do not vaccinate thier children and are segragated from most of the world, not dealing with a lot of the environmental pollutants that we do everyday???
If the government did take all the thermisol filled vaccines off the shelf in 99 (which we know they didn't) We should be seeing a decline in the rate Autism is being DXed this year. It wouldn't of happened right away, but from what i've read, it should start to decline this year.
My child's Dr says the same thing that mercury hasn't been in the shots since '99. But my child was born in 2000 and he's autisic so I'm also not sure what to believe.
I don't remember Takoda having a definate trigger but we had alot of fevers and ear infections starting at 6mo wich is ironically when the ped. we were going to pushed an addtional unnessisary vacine the was suposed to prevent them. I can't remember the name of the vacine.
Anyone know what it could have been I would like the name of it for his records. I was told it would prevent ear infections and meningitis and its not a scheduled vacine.
I also noticed from Takoda to Brodey who was born in 2003 they added more vacines to the schedule.
I also have old mercury fillings from when I was a teen.
Nelle
They were supposed to take the mercury out of vaccines, but it is still there. I am sure there are other moms out there who can explain why this is, all I know is it is. the mercury is STILL in the vaccines. They are still giving young poor pregnant moms TONS of tuna for free from the government and telling them it is good for their fetus.I think thimerosal TRIGGERED autism, and it needs to be gone. But I don't know how we are going to do it. I can't go to the rally in DC. I wish we could all do something HUGE. <sigh> Once I graduate, I will have lots more time for that sort of thing.
Look at China. They did not have one case of autism until the U.S. started importing their vaccines there. Now you don't expect me to believe what the CDC is saying that there is no link between mercury and autism and the vaccines? There is , they just will not admit it. Go back and look at their position on the AIDS virus. It took them years to change their stance on that one.
Tammy
The woman i spoke to at the ARC in my area said that the numbers out of California that just came out actually did show a bit of a decline, they use California for primary tracking because the data is so detailed. and now here's my .45, i won't say 2cents because it would be a gross underestimate LOL.
I do believe that mercury does play apart in the autistic puzzle, a rather big part actually. I also believe that there is a genetic disposition to itaswell, wether it's a weakened immune system or a genetic disposition to nuerological disorders. my son was different from birth, he received all of his immunizations on time, including the hep b at birth. the govt. requested that the mercury be removed in 1999, wasn't that sweet of them LOL, the pharm companies still can sell the vaccines and are allowed to dispense them until they run out, alot of vaccines are covered by patent rights so we may never know what is actually in them, they same ditributer may have a vaccine with .0001 mg of ethol mercury and one with 200 mg of mercury. here's what i do know, vaccines are not bad, mercury used in vaccines as perservatives are bad. unfortunately we are all exposed to mercury it's in our food, water, teeth and air. mass vaccinations in the US were introduced in 1939, autism was first discovered in 1941. personally, i think our kids are being poisoned and the govt will never admit to it, there is too much money at stake and unfortunately, money is the bottom line.
The thimeserol is a "preservative" of sorts...so no, it is not out of the vaccines. Whatever is left on the shelf is going to get used. And it's not like they're warning people about the "possible" issues with it either. I like how they decided the cost of re-mfr'g these vaccines outweighed the cost of poisoning our children. Too bad, they'll have to make smaller batches, pay for extra shipping...too bad.
The fact that they're still there tells me we'll have no real idea WHEN we'll start to see a decline...if they're still using them today, it makes sense that the numbers won't change.
I don't think it's a CAUSE, but I also like others, believe it's a trigger. Like Tammy pointed out, they haven't tested to see if there's a reaction to certain genes. This is why I posted the other question about cancer...is there a link to those of us who were vaccinnated wih the Polio vaccine that contained this SV40 virus, and some possible effect on our genes?? Now they react to the poisons they insist we give our children?? That started around 1960...and the dates seem to all coincide too with the parents of Autism now. Just another "oversight" on the part of the FDA I guess....I guess they're entitled huh. It's infuriating really, and all they do is say "no link no link" but if they haven't done COMPLETE research, they should keep there mouths shut. Incomplete research is NOT research.
Maybe we'll never know...all these years later it would seem impossible for them to tie ALL of us together with a common link....who knows? But the least they could do is stop it now....who cares how much is on the shelf that has to be thrown away??? I don't! Then again, they're not offering us the $ to pay for therapies, so maybe their cost does outweigh the risk.....they don't hold the burden.
I have the Amish articles if you can't find them...very interesting! There was one Autistic child in their community...however she was adopted from China and was required to get vaccines upon entering the U.S.
(Shakes...genetic dispostion tied to neurological disorders...well put...it's interesting reading...but will we ever know? I know it doesn't help us with our children now...but if they find the cause, a) they'll save kids in the future and b) maybe help ours eventually???)
I had the flu shot while pregnant w/ my 3rd child as well. She's only 6 months old. She just got vaccinated last week. I don't know if there was thimerasol in them or not. Last week I didn't know to ask!
Did you ask your ped to wait on vaccinations for your other children, and did they? Did you ask if the vaccines has the thimerosal in them? Or did you refuse to let your child have them.
Christie
I don't have the answers to your questions...(I was completely oblivious to the dangers or possible dangers)....but you CAN ask for the ingredient list (don't just take their word for thimeserol not being in them)...and you can refuse, and I've heard a lot of mothers here say they're asking (and getting) the shots separate and spread out and at later dates. So it can be done.
By age 1 I definitely knew something was wrong, was ignored for more than another year...so I can't even say vaccines had any effect on my son. He is delayed...was delayed in milestones too, but officially, yes, evaluated and definitely delayed at age 3. (he's now 8 1/2 and getting worse----granted he makes good progress with age, but the delay is increasing...on good days I'd say he's equivalent to about 4 yrs.) so anyway...was he born this way? did it appear because of vac? I honestly don't know...
That said, I do believe there is a tie somewhere.....damn....I should have gone into medicine or genetics!! :)
I just want to clarify- there is no mercury/thimerisol in MMR or chicken pox vaccine.So really there are 2 points being debate4d here:
Does thimerisol/mercury trigger/cause autism spectrum and other developmental disorders?
Does MMR cause autism spectrum and other developmental disorders?
My son had reactions to his diptheria tetanus shots at 2 months. High fever for two days. He showed signs of autism well before his mmr. His dad is also in the spectrum according to the Psych, though not as severe as my son. My daughter has Autism as well though milder, she had her mmr because I thought she was fine. Her development up until then was perfect and she showed signs of regression after the shot. I agree that the vaccines play a part, but in my husbands case (he is 66) (I was a child bride LOL) he didn't receive many of these shots and his autism is much less severe.
Well my Ped. suggested i look into the MMR tie with autism but i swear it changes on a weekly basis!! She also reccommended that i dont Vaccinate my daughter anymore! I had her write a letter to the school so that i dont have problems putting her into classes with out the vaccines! But since my daughter is going to a school for MR/DDwe didnt have much of a problem! It is amazing out of the 8 children in her class ranging everywhere on the spectum that only 1 of the childrens parents have decided to continued with the vaccines! They had to inform all parents about the children that havent been vaccinated..
Then how intresting after i refuse to vaccinate my daughter anymore after the MMR CHICKENPOX Vaccines at the age of one! Our local health department sent me a letter telling me she nids HepB again! I called and had to fight with them about not getting it!
You know they did absolutely no research on what mercury does when it interacts with certain genes and environmental factors. I mean sure they have these research groups for different meds. I know my kids pca does that but she gets paid over 2 grand for each research study she is in. Now if they want to start a research area for this and pay us that is totally different. But this is the exact same government that tested acid, cocaine, pcp, and other illegal drugs on their own citizens and then tried to cover it up.
Tammy
although i personally do not believe that mercury/thimerasol/vaccines caused or triggered my daughter's autism, i do believe that there is still that chance that it is the answer. i dont believe it, but i dont know for sure.my daughter never got the chicken pox vaccine. my daughter was sick a lot last winter, so my mother suggested she get a flu shot. i said "NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!" i will not allow it. and i do not allow my daughter to eat any tuna whatsoever.
you can never be too careful with this stuff.
You know, another thing I have been wondering about is the rise in elderly people getting the flu shot and the rise in Alzheimers. I have absolutely NOTHING to back this up, only the fact that i read somewhere that thimerosal IS in some flu shots. That made me start thinking about it...
Also, I SWEAR my kids had the measles after their vaccine too. I couldn't figure out what they had, and I looked up the sypmtoms, and they had all the symptoims of the measles. I called the Doc, took them in, and he basically said i was nuts. I said I thought maybe the vaccine gave them a slight case. He said it was some sort of an allergic reaction (but NOT to the Vaccines) combined with a virus. Yeah Right.
Anyway... Definitely a link.
I saw a report online yesterday that said even after they remove the mercury from the vaccines, it is not all gone. There are still traces of mercury in them. So they are not mercury free as much as doctors and the drug companies want you to believe.
Tammy
I'm new to your board. I have a 6 yr old son who has been diagnosed as Aspergers Syndrom. I pretty much know nothing about how to deal with him. He has a high tolerance to pain, no sense of danger, and is probably ADHD as well.
I've heard about the problems with shots...which makes me feel absolutely horrible. You see my son had to get some of his shots twice because I lost the records and the WIC office that I got them from is no longer in exsistance.
I'm not going to say that the shots caused his problems because he already had problems before that...but I feel like I've made them worse because he had to get those shots again.
It seems like nobody at his school knows how to deal with his problems and like everyone just wants to send him off to some special school instead of trying to actually get an IEP that works for him.
If anyone has any knowledge of A.S. and could give me some insight into how to help my son, I'd be very grateful.
- I had Rohgam (contained mecury)
- I had teeth worked on (w/mercuy fillings) due to abcess had one pulled.
- Anna had awful reactions to shots but doctors kept pushing her to get them ALL.
- Anna was born with cogenital hypothyroidism; no thyroid. Poor immunity.
MY thoughts: Each child unique.. Each child reacting to mecury uniquely....is that something you can put a fact sheet together on?
WE are ALL being poisened by our environment daily...how our body reacts to this constant exposure to toxins is a mystery, why some get cancers some don't why some have mental breakdowns, some don't.
CDC, though well meaning, can't possibly know for a fact that it wasn't a factor in our childrens cases.
That is all I will say about that.
Mary, I couldn't agree more. The thing that pi**es me off the most is when somebody DOES know that something causes illness, but they don't tell anybody. The pharmaceudical industry knew long ago that there's a link between thimerisol and autism, but they kept it to themselves. The tuna industry knew their product had high levels of mercury long before they went public with it, but for financial reasons, they kept it to themselves as long as possible. If only I had known a year before.... okay, I can't go there.For us I think mercury is the major component. My teeth were full of amalgam fillings which contain mercury. I had a root canal in the first trimester that went through a filling. I adore tuna and ate it a lot. When Paul was somewhere around a year a babysitter gave him tuna salad and he loved it. I have video of him shoving it down. Makes me nuts!! Throw in the MMR at 15 mos with regression beginning at 18 mos....it takes you there.
There also may be a genetic link--I have some nephews who exhibit more than normal ASD behaviors.
What I was taught was that Autism was first identified in 1940 something by Kanner. There were 2 main classifications. Infantile autism/classic autism are essentially the same thing: signs from birth, more than 50% have MR. Then there were higher functioning autistic children whose pattern was to regress somewhere between 15 months and 30 months, more or less. So it gets tricky to support the mercury theory when the timing doesn't support the theory. The timing is no different than a syndrome they identified 60 years ago.
I believe in the mercury theory in a big way!!! But I think there are many children who would have presented with that pattern whether they had been exposed or not. I believe there are increasing amounts of toxins that certain children with compromised immune systems can't handle and they too can trigger this syndrome.
Sorry to go on and on about it. It's hard to stop when I get going on autism topics!!
pat
Pat, are you saying that for kids who have showed signs from birth, more than 50% have MR? This doesn't make me feel good.... Did you read a study on that?
From our studies, they may seem mentally retarded, but we have found that many are not when given the proper supplementation. We now have over 10 hours of parent testimony from over 85 parents (and many parents were told that their child had MR) who have found that through mb12 that the child did NOT have MR. More videos are being added each week.
Basically, autism can have a child look and act like MR since the brain is not functioning properly. Give the brain the nutrients it needs, then see if you truly have MR or not. Far too many are told they have MR when in reality they brain is missing the vitamins needed to function properly.
The good new is that about 9 out of 10 respond positively to mb12. I am not saying "cure" and responding positivly should not be taken as their child will become NT. I am saying that 9 out of 10 respond enough that the parents see the benefit and do not want to stop treatment. 2 out of 10 respond so well that many do lose the Dx. Losing the Dx again is not a "cure". Just as a person with diabetes is treated and looks no different than the rest of the population, these children are TREATED and look like the rest of the population.
A good set of videos is the one on Chris. Chris was severly autistic in March 2004 - non verbal. We again show him in September 2004 and April 2005. I will be refilming in the next couple of months. Chris just started 2 - 3 word sentences and we are going to give him a little more time and then film again.
Videos can be found at this link http://www.drneubrander.com/pageVid.html
Rick Neubrander
Fellow parents,
I was pretty impressed by Robert Kennedy Jr.'s article in Rolling Stone Magazine about the Thimerisol debate...I looked it up online, and you can all read it at: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/_/id/7395411
At first I didn't think there could be an autism/vaccines connection, especially since my daughter clearly got her ADHD/Asperger's from her dad, but businesses don't try that hard to cover up unless they know they screwed up! The RS article is must reading for ASD parents.
The good news is, I think his autism is the reason my husband is such a great comedy writer...he can write weird comedy because he thinks weird(ly)! So maybe autism is as much a blessing as a curse? If you hit my WWW button you can read some of the weird things he's said and written and you'll see why when I first read his book, I thought, "This guy doesn't think like normal people!" I meant it as a compliment...his book made me laugh so much, I became determined to marry him! (We were pen pals then.) But now that we have a daughter who thinks/acts like Ian, I understand why his mother always wanted to strangle him when he was little! I'm glad she didn't! So take heart, mothers of impossible children...the very qualities that make them impossible now may make them legends one day!
:-D
I ended up here out of curiosity, as a professional who deals with, over
the years, hundreds of children with severe developmental problems. As I
said in my last note, I am frustrated by the (apparent in my opiinion) false
blaming of vaccines, to the detriment of vaccine efforts in this
country,which indeed does waste hundreds of hours of my time
discussing what is considered by many to be a dead issue. And no, I
have never seen a sudden reversal of dev't after a shot,despite all the
children with autism I see. They have all shown many signs of their
delays all along their course.
But I see and sympathize with the frustrations of parents who dont have
good answers, and who wholeheartedly believe in the measles/mercury/
combined vaccine /government link.
I see that this forum is happier to stick with parents, so I may bow out.
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts, and good lluck to you and your
children.
drdan
DrDan,
I'd say it's actually 50/50 - certainly not all parents here blame vaccines for their children's developmental delays or beleive in that the governmental agencies are engaged in a conspiracy to hide the "truth".
If you want to vent on some entity for what you perceive as parent's irrational causation theories, it would be better to focus on those responsible for pushing these theories, not parents who are caught in the middle of an information war and are drawing conclusions based on who presents the most compelling case.
Personally, I would love a medical person to contribute to these forums, especially one who deals professionally with DD kids. However, you initial post does come off as condescending and that's only going to result in folks resisting the message your trying to put out.
I am new to this forum. I am a board certified pediatrician with 30 years
of experience. Dont you all know that there is NO LINK WHATSOEVER of
autism to thimersal. It is all a hoax. The original study linking it has
been rescinded. Hundreds of studies of hundreds of thousands of
children have not shown any linkage. There is no serious scientific
evidence linkingit. There IS a llot of non scientific reports. BIG DEAL.
Throw away science and you can belieive whatever you like to.
Thimersal has been removed years ago from vaccines, kids are still
getting autism, and parents are still blaming a substance that is no longer
used. What ever happened to intelligent thought???
Dan[/QUOTE]
DrDan, I find it interesting that you misspelled thimerisol
.It's Thimerosal.I'm sure you are right, foxl, but I'm not the physician.
nakama
I work in a medical school and spelling is not an admissions criterion.ok foxl, got the point. I was simply questioning the doctor's legitimacy. I hope my spelling is accurate. nakama, I got that ... but do you think a representative of Big Pharm would be a poorer speller ... ? My point was this: Anybody could pop in the boards and pose as a physician, just to
prove their own view points. I would think that a physician, especially a pediatrician who has been serving autistic children for a number of years, would be well educated and informed about the spelling of one of the most ominous topics in the autism field.
I, you, or anyone else could sign in as a "newbie", and debate their opinions as a physician. Who would know if they are honest? Who knows, he may in fact be a doctor. It may even be Dr. Dan Neubrander. I know his brother does a lot of
promotion for him on other boards. He does follow a sort of "DAN" protocol.
So, I was simply trying to question his integrity, KWIM?
I see your point Nakama. Anybody could be posting this. He might not be a doctor, or maybe he is. Still doesn't give anyone the right to come on here putting people down for what they believe. Sixties slogans time. Make love not war. Peace. Can't we all just get along. Oh and Hug a tree, it's because of them that you can breathe.
Whew! A lot of banter for leaving out an "o"!
Yes, I am a board certified pediatrician, I am not Dr. N., and I am not
connected with big pharmaceuticals.
(note - this thread is years old and was recently resurrected by DrDan, so the original event that inspired it is years in teh past by now).
fwiw - this fresh out of the oven
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/357/13/1281
I'm going to play devil's advocate here:
I don't think it is the thimerosal in the vaccines that causes autism - I think it is the OVERWHELMING of the immune system. Too many shots in a small time frame complicated by auto-immune disorders that aren't detected earlier b/c there are no sx and it would require a LOT of testing.
So, they keep trying to prove that vaccines aren't doing it, but they are only testing for mercury poisoning and not the quantity of vaccines.
ETA - I don't think that it HAS to be from the vaccines that our kids get either...I think it could be vaccines/shots that the mother gets shortly before pregnancy or during.
I'll play too - i have three boys 2 asd - one is completely vaccine free. A lot of asd kids are. My only nt is my only kid to have had all the shots.
Autism is many, many different conditions with coinciding characeristics under one title. That's why our kids are so different and their progress so varied.
Payne's Mom - you have to remember, I'm a very black and white thinker :)
The discusson was about thimerosol (sp?) so a recent study published in a authoratative medical journal seemed relevent. My reference was only to thimerosol (sp?) and not to the issue of vaccines in general.
See - I don't just see black and white...I LIVE in the grey areas. That's why I have such a hard time with decision making. 
I'm going to add this too - I don't think that autism as we know it with all the "degrees" is really ONE thing...I think it is MULTIPLE things, but since no one knows what is causing it that they are making it an umbrella term. KWIM?
Now...the argument that I've always had was that it starts as a genetic disposition and then <BAM> something sets it off - just like my auto-immune disorders...something triggered it. [QUOTE=enikkibaby]You know, another thing I have been wondering about is the rise in elderly people getting the flu shot and the rise in Alzheimers. I have absolutely NOTHING to back this up, only the fact that i read somewhere that thimerosal IS in some flu shots. That made me start thinking about it...
Also, I SWEAR my kids had the measles after their vaccine too. I couldn't figure out what they had, and I looked up the sypmtoms, and they had all the symptoims of the measles. I called the Doc, took them in, and he basically said i was nuts. I said I thought maybe the vaccine gave them a slight case. He said it was some sort of an allergic reaction (but NOT to the Vaccines) combined with a virus. Yeah Right.
Anyway... Definitely a link.
[/QUOTE]
Side thought: I've often wondered if autism and alzheimers is related...
They have a pill out now to help prolong the quality of life for alzheimers patients.
Actually, souljen, there has been some recent research developments linking the conditions of autism and alzheimers to the same genes and columns within our DNA structure. Several of the prominent researchers of genetics and autism are now involved in cross-studies of alzheimers and vice versa.
I'd say your side-thought is right on track [QUOTE=AnamCara]
Actually, souljen, there has been some recent research developments linking the conditions of autism and alzheimers to the same genes and columns within our DNA structure. Several of the prominent researchers of genetics and autism are now involved in cross-studies of alzheimers and vice versa.
I'd say your side-thought is right on track
[/QUOTE]
Say it aint so...
yup. [QUOTE=Sunny]not trying to start a debate here (please, please dont get mad!!!) but i'm just curious. am i the only one that does not believe mercury and vaccines cause autism? [/QUOTE]For us, vaccines and mercury are not the cause of both of our sons autism nor is it the cause of their father's. For us, it is genetic.
For others, who knows?
Payne started having febrile seizures at a year old shortly after his immunizations - that is when we REALLY noticed a regression before he was more or less delayed - after was catastrophic. He is doing much better now though. Speaking of auto-immune disorders - we had a thread going before, but lets do this for the newbies and a refresher:
How many of your children had seizures at a young age? After immunization or without any? If you decided against them on your child - did you have any injections shortly before becoming pregnant or while pregnant - this INCLUDES the rhogam shot (for the rh neg moms)? Do autoimmune disorders run in your family?
ETA - I forgot to answer my own questions! Duh...been a day.
Payne started having febrile seizures at 1...shortly after immunizations. I didn't have any vaccines EXCEPT the rhogam shot while pregnant with Payne...I almost miscarried him. Yes, Autoimmune disorders and Depression run in my family.
It is my understanding that the general underlying theory in the research behind the causal link between the two is that there is a genetic switch which triggers deterioration of neural pathways. Initially, as the fetal brain develops during gestation, more neurons/neural pathways are developed than will ultimately be needed. At some point during our maturation outside the womb, a genetic "switch" that is biochemically triggered during development causes those unnecessary neurons to die off. Through the studies being done, it appears that this genetic switch triggers early in children on the spectrum, thus creating the regression so many of us have experienced with our children in their early years. The same thing apparently occurs in the onset of alzheimers', which is why that link is being examined.
Although I do not vaccinate my children, I have never claimed to be anti-vaccine, and am not. I agree that the bombardment in the amount of vaccines given within the first two years of life needs to seriously be examined in light of issues of toxicity and predisposition of already-compromised immune systems. Particularly if it is the toxicity of environment, vaccines included, that cause that genetic "trigger" to flip the switch.
Anam and souljen, thank you for bringing this up This is a topic my family doc and I have dicussed quite a bit. I was unaware of the studies, although he referenced a possible casual relationship being assessed now. That aside, my grandmother died of Alzheimers. The neurological regressions I saw take place in her were very similar to what I experienced when my son regressed. The stimming is very similar as well. The gibberish added in with langauge. The blank stare.
Although it may be determined to be a fluke...the presentation of a patient in the first few stages of Alzheiemers is almost exact to that of many children with an PPD or autsim DX.
I am with Payne on this. My family has a genetic predisposition to ASD. Autoimmune nightmare here...psoriasis, diabetes, MS, etc. Then something triggers it. I contend the MMR overloaded a system that was simply not ready. Was it the measles he developed? High fever caused a seizure? I don't know. But I saw it happen in front of my eyes.
[QUOTE=fred]Payne's Mom - the girl's have each had one febrile seizure - earily, it was within hours of each other (Evie seized while Abbie was in the emergency room). THis was in response to some wild virus they contracted in florida when the were around 4.0.[/QUOTE]WOW! That must've been some virus. I live here in Florida...haven't gotten anything yet. I can count how many times Payne has been sick on one hand in his lifetime.
Wow
I am new to this forum. I am a board certified pediatrician with 30 years
of experience. Dont you all know that there is NO LINK WHATSOEVER of
autism to thimersal. It is all a hoax. The original study linking it has
been rescinded. Hundreds of studies of hundreds of thousands of
children have not shown any linkage. There is no serious scientific
evidence linkingit. There IS a llot of non scientific reports. BIG DEAL.
Throw away science and you can belieive whatever you like to.
Thimersal has been removed years ago from vaccines, kids are still
getting autism, and parents are still blaming a substance that is no longer
used. What ever happened to intelligent thought???
Dan
[QUOTE=DrDan]Wow
Thimersal has been removed years ago from vaccines, kids are still
getting autism, and parents are still blaming a substance that is no longer
used. What ever happened to intelligent thought???
Dan[/QUOTE]
I find your comment interesting, Dan, particularly as the first thing out of my board-certified pediatrician's mouth when my son was diagnosed last year was "At least we know it's not the thimerasol issue" because I do not vaccinate any of my four my children - a choice she discussed at length with me, and found my reasons to be well thought-out, researched, and appropriate for my family.
You're correct in that the original study is considered to be debunked; however, that does not mean that subsequent, completely impartial studies will be (if that is at all possible within the realm of big-profit pharmaceutical companies and their relationship with the federal government), nor that there is not a legitimate reason to examine the possible link between autism and the possible triggering of symptoms and neurological deterioration by the bombardment of vaccines via the arbitrary "vaccine schedules" on a fragile developing immune system. And considering that thimerasol is still well and alive in flu vaccines, I'd say the jury is still out on that issue, at least for parents who prefer to think for themselves rather than accept the party line.
I am not saying that scientific data is not for the most part reliable, simply that it, like anything else created by humans, including the art and practice of medicine, whether allopathic, homeopathic, aryuvedic, or otherwise, is not infallible and often biased. Therefore, to accept only "scientific evidence" as the alpha and omega authority without examining all the available evidence - antecdotal as well as empirical - would, in fact, be quite unintelligent.
Please do not malign the posters on this board as "unintelligent"...stick around and I believe that you might find out quite to the contrary, particularly as far as autism research and interventions goes, and whether they are successful or not in the practical sense. We'd certainly be delighted to have your experience and knowledge to draw from in addition to the other resources and posters found here.
AnamCara,
Well Said.
I would like to add that, while incredible advances have been made in health care, many diseases/syndromes would not be as clearlyunderstood today if it were not for the amazing persistance of the patients and families afflicted with said diseases pushing the medical establishment to find answers and treatments.
For myself, I know if I accepted all my wonderful pediatrician(I mean that seriously) had to say about my son, he would probably still be non-verbal today. Parental instinct told me otherwise and at age 10 my son is progressing nicely. Because my pediatrician is open minded, he accepted my search for more answers, and is a valuable asset to my sons needs.
My questions with vaccines has never been thimersol but I have wondered the impact on a person with a comprised immune system. What about autoimmune effect of vaccines on children; has there been thorough study there?
I understand J-Hopkins U has found a correlation with neuro-inflamation and autism and another has found T-cell issues in 40-50% of ASD children. Can you offer any insight into this with your experience?
[QUOTE=DrDan]Wow
I am new to this forum. I am a board certified pediatrician with 30 years
of experience. Dont you all know that there is NO LINK WHATSOEVER of
autism to thimersal. It is all a hoax. The original study linking it has
been rescinded. Hundreds of studies of hundreds of thousands of
children have not shown any linkage. There is no serious scientific
evidence linkingit. There IS a llot of non scientific reports. BIG DEAL.
Throw away science and you can belieive whatever you like to.
Thimersal has been removed years ago from vaccines, kids are still
getting autism, and parents are still blaming a substance that is no longer
used. What ever happened to intelligent thought???
Dan[/QUOTE]
Well dude, I guess intelligent thought went out the door about the time the pediatrician told me, "I'm more concerned with that cough. Eye contact we can worry about later." Intelligent thought??? Is there any such thing? I have lots of thoughts about my life, and autism, and just sh*t in general. Do I think vaccines cause autism, wham just like that? No I don't. I do know that if a child has a genetic predisposition to autism, the shots don't seem to help matters. My youngest son was cruising right along fine, and then he has his last round of immunizations because my ex husband called CPS and pretty much forced my hand. After those shots, my son regressed and he regressed badly. This was my supposedly NT (Neurotypical just in case you're wondering what this means) son. My oldest son has "classic" autism. We knew that the genetics were probably there and yet they still made me get those shots. Dude, until you've lived my life, don't come on here trying to sound all professional. We've heard people like you spout off hundreds of times and frankly...I just don't give a damn anymore what caused it. I'm living it. Both of my children are on the spectrum. I find it very interesting that your first and only post on this forum was designed to make people feel very defensive about their thoughts and beliefs. That tells me alot about you and I don't think you're one of the people I'd ever let treat my son.
Oh and one other thing...you say mercury has been removed. care to explain this then? http://www.novaccine.com/vaccine-ingredients/
Mercury is still in them buddy boy....you can lie and say it's not there all you want to...I'm going to go now becuase I know my posts here are controversial enough as it is and i'm not usually that type of person...but you just seemed to rub me the wrong freaking way today.
If you would like to know what is in the vaccinations, you can find the ingredients here:
http://www.novaccine.com/vaccine-ingredients/
The MMR ingredients are not there....not sure why.
For what it's worth..... we just got back Adam's test results from heavy metal testing last week and he has very high levels of mercury in his system. We also found out that he has a vitamin B12 deficiency...probably genetic. A B12 deficiency can contribute to low levels of cysteine which can cause a weak immune system. A weak immune system can hamper the bodies ability to rid itself of heavy metals. I'm assuming this is why vaccinations triggered autism in my child, and maybe in some of your children, but not in all children. I do believe that Adam was born with a predisposition to autism, and that somehow he was pushed over the edge. I also believe it may have been the vaccinations that did it.
There is research out there that up to seventy percent of children on the autism spectrum have vitamin B12 deficiencies and speculation that this could be the link between vaccinations and autism. Whatever the reason and whatever the link, what I know is, thimerasol or no thimerasol in vaccinations- if you look at the list of ingredients in vaccines there is enough other junk that there is NO WAY IN h-e-double hockeysticks that my child is EVER getting another vaccination. Some of those vaccines have FORMALDEHYDE in them!!
I don't think ( but like others, not sure) that vaccines caused my son's ASD, but the sheer NUMBER of shots he received in his first year never sat right with me, I hope they also look into the issue of how aggressive the current recommended vaccine schedule is now.I appreciate all of your intelligent comments.
Much as I listen to parents individual fears based on comments from
mothers magazines and free flowing web sites, I think all parents with
children with autism owe it to the disease to read the scientific reports on
the study of this problem. The reports are not all "from big money
pharmaceuticals", they come from various scientific groups from every
civilized country in the world.
The best way to see the organized scientific approach to study this
problem is to look at "www.pubmed.com",and fill in search items like
"thiomersal (or vaccines, or mmr, or measles) and autism"
It reveals hundreds of thoughtful looks at this problem.
Sorry to rustle so many feathers on my entrance.
I know I have a lot to learn from you parents as well. I intend on
following your comments and learning from those that are well based.
Thank you all. And I certainly do appreciate the increased incidence of
this tragic problem. I deal with it every day in my office. I just think that
answers are still unknown, and a lot of energy is going in the wrong
direction.
DanMuch better wording there Dr Dan. You really pissed me off lat night with that first post lol. I'm sorry I went off on you there. You're willing to learn about and from out kids. Maybe you're an okay guy after all. I know when you read my previous post, you were probably thinking this woman is nuts and probably PMS'ing. Wrong. I just have to live with autism each and every day of my life. It's not in patients I'm treating, but it's my own kids. Oh and Dr. Dan, you say research is the best way to find out what's going on. How are we supposed to research all of this when there are so many conflicting reports on what actually causes autism? There's the vaccine camp...you can read their research. There's the genetics camp....you can read their research. None of it seems to fit my kids like a glove though. I've spent the last 2 years earning my "Phd in Googleology" just like most other parents who face this each day. Just don't make us all defensive about our beliefs. Let's all learn from each other and try to make the world a better place.Rhosyn--can i call you Rosie or Roz??
Sorry I pissed you off. You know, it is hard for a non scientist to really
properly research something. People come in blaming vaccines, when it
is just as likely that some other new factor in our environment could be
the cause (mcdonalds, uv rays, other new food additives, ultrasound,
etc),yet many conditions are really multifactorial.....not all smokers
develop pancreatic cancer, yet it is related to smoking and genetics...etc.
In the meantime, vaccines have probably been the biggest advance in
health in the last two thousand years, and are taking a real beating by
autism parents. You dont see children developing measles encephalitis
or measles pneumonia or pertussis brain hemorhage or chickenpox
meningitis or paralytic polio anymore. Because of the vaccines, people
feel safe feelling that they dont need them.
I find it scary that people are allowed not to vaccinate their babies against
pertussis.....most children I see who get sick with pertussis are those who
are unvaccinated. I actually think it is akin to child abuse to NOT
vaccinate against most of these illnesses.
In the meantime,I patiently let people take up hundreds of hours of my
time discussing their fears of vaccines, which I truly feel are mostly
unfounded. Then their children get sick, expose others to their diseases,
and take up health care time and dollars because they; falsely believe
they can avoid certain d