"Anatomy" of a Meltdown
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| I'm seeing several posts here mentioning meltdowns and the confusion and general disorder that they can bring about. And while no one has directly asked about it that I've seen, I'm going to take the initiative and dig up a post I made on AW about two months ago which diagrams, to the best of my ability, what happens during one of these so-called "fits."
While I have the full intent of helping anyone I can with this post, I think I'm in need of doing it today mostly because I've been on the brink for several weeks straight and I really need to get the feelings off my chest. So I'll either be helping or ranting, one or the other.... 
First thing's first, keep in mind that "meltdowns" (outward tantrum-like or otherwise vicious outbursts) or more often in my case, "shutdowns" (inward withdrawal from surroundings) are extremely terrifying to the person who exhibits them because they are the direct result of getting disconnected or disoriented in respect to their world as they know it. I will try to diagram one of these "meltdowns" in case it has not been done already. I basically lack, to some degree, the natural ability to cue from other people in order to determine my actions. So in order to not be frightened and/or confused, I need a firm grasp on what's going on around me, and this is usually accomplished by being aware of the possible outcomes of my actions in a given set of circumstances. Any "unknowns" (i.e. elements of a situation which I haven't yet taken into consideration) must be dealt with before anything else can be accomplished, because only when I am in complete knowledge of my surroundings can I proceed without fear. When you suddenly change the plans, rules, environment, etc., you suddenly throw in a multitude of these "unknowns" simultaneously, which must then be simultaneously processed by the autistic mind. At some point my mind becomes overloaded with details and goes into what amounts to a short-circuit or, in the sense of a computer, a "freeze-up." At this point I will "shut down," or basically cease to interact. I know I can no longer cope with my surroundings so I tune them out, figuring that any further reaction to them will be an incorrect or inappropriate one. Now at this point one of two things will happen: either 1) the other people will become disinterested and leave me be (in which case I will process the new scenario, recover and try to join the group again at that time). OR 2) someone will force the issue, and demand that I respond, not knowing that I have lost connection with my train of thought. (Remember that since I have few natural social skills, the ones I exhibit are the result of careful planning, stored information, and repetition. Thus with no train of thought, I am suddenly thrust into an alien world when expected to make any type of outward relation to another person). Now I am forced to figure out a socially appropriate response without my mental database of scripts to draw from. When that happens my mind races so quickly that it does not grasp onto anything, and the resulting outburst you see is the resulting frustration associated with being in a seemingly no-win situation that can't be escaped. It's analogous to the girl in the horror movie who screams maniacally because the monster is about to eat her and she is backed into a corner with nowhere to run except into the monster's jaws. Only in this case the monster is invisible, and when I react to what is very real to me, no one else can really see or relate to it and so it appears that I am grossly overreacting to a less significant, but more visible, incident. What happens is basically the people around me displace the feeling of lost-ness to which I am actually reacting to the visible situation that *apparently* caused the outburst. Back to the analogy, if the monster in the horror movie were not visible it might appear as though the woman were screaming because she had reached a corner, and moviegoers might similarly believe this to be an over-reaction because she could seemingly just go in a different direction. Once I began to realize the effect that these shutdowns and meltdowns had on other people, I began to go out of my way to find ways of avoiding them. I would be willing to bet that other autistic people, wheter it be by non-compliance or over-compliance, are making a nonverbal effort to avoid this terrifying situation, especially since a person reacting to it will inevitably compound the problem by making a further environmental change (trying to "help") rather than rewinding or pausing the situation (depending on circumstances) to allow for processing. The key thing about a full scale meltdown is that the person has to first calm down before anything else can happen. The fit has to literally de-escalate in the reverse order in which it happens. If it went: change in plans--->question/resistance-->zone out-->tantrum then it can only de-escalate as such: tantrum--->zone out-->question/resistance-->change in plans In other words, if I'm having a meltdown, I must first CALM DOWN. Nothing is rational during a full meltdown, so don't even try. Hold me, rock me, reassure me, lock me in a padded room, whatever, but don't ask anything else of my mind -- at this point it just does not exist. Once I calm down, now the tricky part -- where did the problem begin? I have to re-trace my steps to that point and re-boot. This is where so many people make the mistake of displacing the problem. In order to continue from where I was before the situation got ugly, I have to go back to the point NOT immediately prior to the actual meltdown, but rather, back to the point at which I first showed trouble. Usually a question or a look of utter confusion or exasperation. So it's important to re-trace steps. If I can accomplish this (it can be done more quickly with the help of at least one patient or unoffended person), then all I have to do is re-compute, which means going back to the process described at the beginning of this post -- I re-assess my circumstances and once again become aware of the possible outcomes of my actions in this new set of circumstances. Once I have done this I will be functional once again, and will do well if all memory of the past few minutes is erased as completely as possible. Any references to my previous behavior will put further doubt into my mind as to my level of acceptance and cause me to be much more reserved (in essence prolonging the shutdown period, which means keeping me on edge) and thus much less fun to be around. Remember that meltdowns are ten times as horrific to the person doing it than they are to the people observing it, so punishing the behavior is unneccessary. Trust me when I tell you I don't do it for attention or to force my way. The panic I feel is involuntary and simply has to be dealt with in the right manner in order to keep it from erupting. Eruption can be avoided by recognizing the warning signs: *Sudden and dramatic increase in stimming (caused by a sudden feeling of alarm or panic) *Zoning out (can be misconstrued as refusal to comply) *Asking analytical questions when a change of plans or sudden command is issued (can be misconstrued as arguing or backtalking) *Muttering to oneself (this is a means of "thinking out loud." Think of it as an sort of an auditory stim, and a means of getting one's bearings in an emotional sense. Parents -- if you can't understand what he's saying, don't assume it's personal and call him out on it. You'll pull the trigger) If you observe these signs it can help matters if you'll give some time for processing. I know a lot of parents want immediate compliance, but sometimes this is beyond our emotional threshold. I always found that it helped me considerably if I was told way ahead of time if there was a big "to-do" coming up, and periodically reminded about it. I never resented doing as I was told, but sometimes the comand went completely against my mental script for the day, so doing it required a new script. In short, the above signals mean that some down time is needed and should be allowed. I noticed also when I worked with preschoolers that some kids on the very low end of the spectrum seemed to go off into meltdown immediately without showing any cognitive warning signs at all. I'm not sure why this is (other than the possibility that maybe their "wheels" aren't turning as quickly or as intensively as those kids on the mid to high end), however I am fairly certain that these sudden meltdowns are for similar, albeit simpler reasons, and should probably be dealt with in the same way, as calming down was still always the first vital step in the recovery process. OK that's all I've got. Sorry if I ranted, but I had to get it out of my head. Thank you, Nick. I just forwarded to my husband! How do u cope, i mean u play in a band, u obviously have friends too and must be social when u dont want to, i hope u dont use the same crutches i do in life, what do u do? mind u i dont want anybody to my my condition I must cope without them realizing i have autism i would absolutly loose my friends cause they would not understand and probably get screwed at my job. This seemed to be the only way to cope once i started this partying i instantly became friends with many people and now socializing = having to alter my mind and feel good, or high or drunk so im interesting, dont zone or freak out, can go with the flow and no matter what unexpected things happen around me i can cope, i also bring this up on thr parents site because im sure someday when their children get older they may have to figure out how to deal and try to be normal and i fear they may come to the same conculsion as i have. HELP anybody!!I've been reading a little on RDI which recommends trying to introduce an ASD child, little by little, to dynamic environments as a way to get their brain to adapt to our dynamic world. Nick, you provided an example of how a watch helped you to cope with dynamic elements that disturbed you in school. For anyone who knows about RDI, including Nick - do objects that help to make the environment more predictable for an ASD child get in the way of nurturing adaptability to dynamic environments? I'd like a way of dealing with my son's rigidity (he doesn't have meltdowns, but can be very rigid) incorporating your ideas, Nick, and also staying true to RDI. Very interesting topic. What you wrote, Nick, really rings true. I certainly know that my son (almost 9) will go from agitation/escalation to meltdown if someone puts further demands on him. I think that young kids with classic autism go into "instant" meltdown because their overall stress level is so high that they get easily pushed past their threshold. They often can't communicate their inner-state with words, and their parents are often new to autism and don't know what nonverbal signs to look for. I heard of a case where the sign was nearly invisible -- pupil dilation! I also think that it's possible to learn to be more adaptable and less rigid, and time and exposure is sometimes enough to accomplish that. However, what's happening underneath the surface is likely that the child is learning coping mechanisms, and the parent is too. With kids that are extra rigid, these coping mechanisms might need to be taught and practiced more explicitly. I've found a couple good articles about how parents can handle escalation and meltdown, and if you care to read them, Nick, I'd be interested in hearing your take on them. I think they show understanding and respect for the way the child experiences these overwhelming situations. One of the articles is posted in its entirety under this topic: http://www.autism-pdd.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14550&am p;KW=chance The other is here: http://www.isec2005.org.uk/isec/abstracts/papers_m/myles_b.s html Thanks for your valuable insight on this topic. Thanks NorwayMom, I'll look at those articles later today.Hi Woodsman. I'm very sorry you are having to deal with those addictions. I know they can be powerful and hard if not impossible to get out from under. I wish you the best on that. 
Your question is long and very complex, and it does not have just one correct answer, but I will do my best to answer as much of it as I can. The only thing that has kept me off of mind-altering substances is fear of the unknown. I remain stable by staying in control of my "world," which means being alert enough to stimuli that I can go into my "mental database" and pick the appropriate script fast enough to avoid looking dumb, getting injured, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, offending the people I'm with, etc., etc.. Street drugs would take that alertness away from me and I would no longer be in control of my world, and thus no longer in control of my actions. The less in touch I am with my environment (due to prolonged stress/overload, some medications, or whatever), the more prominent my autistic tendencies become. I experience a lot of stress when I do something "wrong," especially when I did not intend to do it. So it stands to reason that if I were on any kind of min-altering drug, I would be even more out of touch, which means I would inadvertently do more wrong things, which means I would have even more guilt and anxiety ariound other people. Aside from that it could put me in trouble with the law, and since law enforcement procedures go on without allowing the suspect to know what's happening, it would add a perpetual "unknown" environmental condition that I would continuously stress over in addition to everything else. So looking at it from that angle it seems to me like turning to drugs will only magnify my current problem many times over. I think my main crutch is that I have mainly "acquaintances," not "friends." In other words, I have certain protective barriers ("firewalls" if you will) about me that most people just can't get through. I never stay in social situations for very long, and I only go out often enough that people will see that I am willing to go out. All I really have to do is focus on *not* doing anything offensive, and then if I don't make much conversation the people around me seem to absorb the "blame" somewhat for not getting to know me in the brief time that they saw me. I have the ability to "mimic" the people around me and quickly learn to do enough to not appear the odd man out, provided I only make brief appearances. I usually do this by mimicking behaviors that I observe from members of the group. I just use my mental store of scripts to anticipate certain moments, then inject the scripted response when the opportune moment arrives. It's not always easy to do, but I only have to do that successfully a couple of times in order to appear "normal" to them, albeit quiet and reserved. Thus I am simply camouflaged or disguised from a social standpoint, rather than actually a genuine member of the clique. As long as I leave with a reputation something to the effect of "that one guy Nick, I didn't get to talk to him much, and he didn't stay long, but he seemed cool...." it puts the responsibility of being social on the other people, rather than me, because it makes them curious about me and interested in me. All I have to do then is not let them get *quite* close enough to see me up close, and I can hang with a group for a while. I am able to play in a band setting only when people are impressed enough with my talent on the bass guitar that I am invited based solely on that rather than it having anything at all to do with my social standing with them. Eventually, however, my quirks and oddities will begin to show up, people will stop greeting me, and the responsibility of being social will start to shift back to me. Once this happens I begin to withdraw, and at a certain point I will feel out of place enough that I will detach from that group of friends, be reclusive and collect my thoughts for a short period of time, and then when I feel ready or the opportunity presents itself, find another so that I can once again have a social "luster" about me. This cycle repeats about every 12-18 months. It sort of makes me a camouflaged social "parasite," but it's the best I can do. And on a side note, if I don't let them get too close, it has the added effect of not allowing me to get emotionally attached to anyone, so it is easier to detach from them when the time comes. I have a few people who know that I am autistic, and whom I feel comfortable enough to welcome myself around. These certain people are my social and emotional lifeline when my contact with the rest of the world breaks down. They are aware of my quirks, know how to read my shut down process, and quickly show forgiveness and support if and when there is a meltdown or social blunder. And it is usually through them in one way or another that I periodically find new avenues into the rest of the NT world. I am prepared for failure at all times, and have measures in place to cushion myself emotionally. The only times I really go off the deep end is when I have several falls in quick succession, in which case I exhaust my emotional reserves before I am able to extinguish all of the problems that incur themselves. In these cases if it were not for my core of "close" friends, not to mention my Christian faith, I would be a very real danger to myself. There have been a few times when I have doubted that even those two safety nets would be enough to save me. That's about all I've got for you right now. Good luck and try not to give up. There are a couple of old cliche's that go something like "keep your friends close, and your enemies closer," and "Expect the best but prepare for the worst," and I've found them both to be very useful philosophies. Nick- Thanks for taking the time to write these well written and easy to read posts. You obviously spend a lot of time and thought and it shows in your thorough explanations which even my old english teacher would enjoy reading. Very refreshing compared to general internet posts. Woodsman - I have never been diagnosed with anything, although I believe I am in the aspergers range somewhere. Norway Mom recently posted a list of Autistic strengths and weaknesses. I thought it looked familiar so I dug out my old performance appraisals from work - all the strengths were listed multiple times! I also used a lot of coping help in high school and college. Particularly drinking. by the time I was 16 all the parties involved drinking and it seemd to help me as I was a disaster in school when everyone was straight and could really see me. I was also lucky that I grew up with 5 siblings in a neighborhood with tons of kids. Socializing was necessary because people were everywhere. I think it is easier to hang out and learn socials skills (or lack there of) when everyone is drunk. Since no one remembers much the next day you get a free pass on any blunders and they can be learned from so next time you might do better. I am not advocating drugs or alcohol, I actually think the best way would be to hang out with drunks but keep your edge, that way you can use the drunks as a study. [quote] I actually think the best way would be to hang out with drunks but keep your edge, that way you can use the drunks as a study.[/quote] I did that a lot in college. Often the marching/pep band would go on road trips to away games and tournaments, and in my biology and wildlife classes, we would sometimes go on weekend field trips where we would have to camp out. Often many of the students would get drunk at night and were amusing to watch. They often seemed perplexed by my lack of interest in alcohol, but they never pressured me to do it. I got along with them OK even though I didn't go under the influence. And their conversations/actions were useful in expanding my scripting data. Without their social inhibitions they were easy to eavesdrop on, and it was very easy to memorize what was funny, what was taboo, what was respectable, etc. and use that information to camouflage myself among other strangers.
ANyways, im accepted and after trying to be normal and realizing im not i managed to use that drive to get where i am now, been perfecting this for my whole life. I was not good at this when i was young but learned from all my mistakes and then just stuck to it but i wanna grow up here eventually im 25 and want to move on i guess, cause i know its the typical thing to do for someone in their mid 20's to find good careers and always bein around people. I know that my friends may get bored doing the same stuff i sugesst over and over, more and more its chillin time nobody wants to do the active stuff with me anymore so ive addapted to even sugessting new things, ya man, absolutly break my routine and usually i get a following and this is how i maintain that imiage of being normal, adapting at a moments notice and doing so with little time to process, then its time for my aids, usually alcohol or painkillers, very rairly the smoke like u said earler it also seems to put me in a more silent and pull into myself more mode but its somethin to do to fit in with whatever particular crowd i try and be with at that time, so then i must cope with that but ya i guess we all have our social scripts for those of us who go and try and be socaial, i cant beleive after all the reading tho that im so good at it i know what its like to need time to think, and be able to have a more riggid, predictable scedual but i cant be boring to be around and have to just adapt with the flow. I asked thinking u went out alot and played alot of music and was always on the move like i am much of the time. Im not sure if u can or not imagine all the years of screwing up and loosing friends and gettin screwed at the job or being able to respond quickly, my technique when this happens i ask... what? as if im partally deaf, now i bought a few seconds of time to formulate a response or verbal or anything else. Everybody thinks i have a hearing problem, hahaha. I always try and have time in between activities, where i can come home or go for a walk somewhere and know ill be alone, during this time i plan for the next activity, and following scinarious if the plan does not fall into place i know what to expect. I come hope, hit the computer and type stuff like this, walk around the house for lack of a better term forcefully, walking hard and fast, thinking, or sittin somewhere rocking, and planning or thinking of what i need to do next, or prepairing for my next activity, it actually turnes me into a wreck sometimes, but then thats over and its back out to do whatever, usually get dragged to crowded bars or sittin in a room conversing for the hours. This is far exceeding what i thought i would write i tryed to explain how i always feel as best i can but i dont think i need to explian it anymore to u guys, thanks for the help man. [quote="woodsman25"]I asked thinking u went out alot and played alot of music and was always on the move like i am much of the time. Im not sure if u can or not imagine all the years of screwing up and loosing friends and gettin screwed at the job or being able to respond quickly, my technique when this happens i ask... what? as if im partally deaf, now i bought a few seconds of time to formulate a response or verbal or anything else. Everybody thinks i have a hearing problem, hahaha. [/quote] Actually I can relate to that very well. I am on the move a lot. I haven't really settled down much mostly because I need the fresh start over and over. I currently have 3 nearly separate lives in 3 separate towns (although thankfully, one of them wil be coming to a close at the end of this month). One of the bands I played with (of which my brother was also a member as a drummer) did do fairly well locally, playing gigs on and off for about 2 years. We broke up when our frontman decided to go solo, essentially ditching us in the process. I do get taken advantage of and misunderstood a lot on the job, and that's one reason why I have never kept any one job more than about 2 years. This school-teaching experience that I'm dealing with right now has been absolutely horrendous for me from all aspects, and I have been in almost continuous overload for the past 3 months. My separate lives in my hometown (where my family lives), and my college town (where I have some close friends), serve as escapes for me on weekends and scheduled breaks. I will leave teaching behind in less than a week, and focus solely on my other 2 "lives." I will seek to find employment and stability in one place, while using the other as an escape and a crutch. I'm not yet sure which town will fill which role, though. After I've had a few weeks to recover emotionally, I will proceed to figure that one out. But one thing that jumped out at me was this: Many things can trigger agitation in children with autism: „X Not getting what he/she wants „X Not doing what he/she wants to do „X Not being able to regulate to environmental stimuli „X Not being able to regulate to internal stimuli The first two, to me, look like a direct analogy to NT children and I don't think it completely fits. It's an entirely different viewpoint going into a meltdown. I understood early on that I couldn't always have what I wanted, and I always factored that into the equation as I saw appropriate, depending on the circumstances. It seems to me that in NT children, however, getting what you want is sometimes a power play for them, so they will often scheme to get their way as sort of an achievement over the barrier of authority. NTs do this all the way through adulthood. It is part of the natural process of self-assertiveness, and while it evolves as the child ages through adolescence and adulthood, the basic principle remains the same. From an autistic perspective, however, the goal is solely on options three and four. I never gave a rat's @$$ (pardon the expression) where I stood on the hierarchy of dominance and authority. All that ever mattered to me was that I was in control of my own environment and could prepare to deal with any and all environmental stimuli. Only when things are more or less in order from that perpective will I be comfortable, regardless of whether I'm the boss, the ring-leader, or the mere lackey. So when dealing with a meltdown (or the warning signs preceding it), what you are seeing is a person whose environmental stimuli are becoming too numerous for him to organize and prioritize. In a low functioning child it may not range past seeing his blocks lined up in a particular way or keeping the string on the miniblinds in constant motion, while for a higher functioning child it may be a complex and intricate bag of internal as well as external aspects. In the latter case, these factors are sometimes interchangeable through the correct use of words, which may explain why it is sometimes easier to coax a higher functioning child back away from the threshold of meltdown than it is for a child with "classic" autism. Generally the less verbal the child is the more tactile their comforting stimuli are. With the highly verbal ones sometimes words and wording can present discomfort more so than the actual request that is presented. They may be melting down because you didn't deliver your request in a manner they could quickly process, then forced a response before they were ready, rather than because they didn't get their way. In nonverbal kids their comfort zone is extremely tactile and physical, so they may be melting down because you had to take their toy away, move them, or otherwise presented a physical sensation that they were not ready to process. I have experienced both of these types of discomfort, so I am assuming that if I were nonverbal I would only be experienceing the physical ones. Other than that though, I tend to agree with the methodology presented regarding comprehending and dealing with children who experience meltdowns.  Thanks for your insight, Nick. What you say rings true with my experience with my son (soon 9 years old). Everybody likes to get their own way, but he's definitely not having manipulative tantrums and he doesn't really need to get his way as long as he feels understood. He does have trouble "following other people's ideas" (as we call it), but I think that it's an issue of avoiding too many demands on him. The classroom environment is demanding on his senses, social skills, etc., so he probably feels overwhelmed when he has to do an art project following the teacher's idea (especially since he doesn't see the point of not allowing creativity). Playing with other kids is also demanding on his senses/social skills, so it's hard to follow their play-scripts -- probably especially because he has receptive language delays, it's hard for him to catch and process what they say. So while he seemingly reacts to not getting what he wants and not getting to do what he wants to do, he is really reacting to having trouble regulating himself and his environment -- it's just that the extra demands we put on him are too much or directly interfere with directing energy towards self-regulating. I must add that he doesn't meltdown very often anymore, and what really helped was understanding his sensory challenges and helping him manage them better. Thanks again for taking the time to read those articles. Here's the list of autistic strengths and weaknesses that Phred mentioned. <quote> Autistic Strengths reviewed for the workplace:
Autistic Weaknesses reviewed for the workplace
<unquote> Source: http://home.earthlink.net/~mellowtigger/conf/SquarePegs-2003 1002.html Those workplace strengths and weaknesses ring very true for me. Too bad most places that I worked at were so put off by the weaknesses that they overlooked the strengths (which some of my more respected coworkers severely lacked, I must say).Nick: I just want to thank you for helping me to understand why Tyler shuts down sometimes and on very rare occasions blows up. I am guessing that he is becoming more and more comfortable with how the world spins for him and is able to accept stimuli better as he grows older. This thread should be bumped every once in a while to just keep all of this valuble information, insight from You, GTTO, and Woodsman, the wisdom and links of Norway Mom, and the opinions of the rest of us available for newer readers. I do not know what style of music that you enjoy playing, BUT one thing that I feel for sure is that You Rock! Thanks Again. John[quote]I do not know what style of music that you enjoy playing, BUT one thing that I feel for sure is that You Rock! Thanks Again. [/quote] Thanks. my music style is pretty much anything along the rock spectrum. Anything from soft/alternative rock like All-American Rejects to the harder, metal-ish rock like Sevendust (I LOVE Sevendust and can't wait to see them in concert here on June 8!  ).
I felt weird about bumping the thread because it's my own and I didn't want to seem pushy or persistent about it. I don't want to push myself on anyone or appear as though I am some sort of authority on how you should view your autistic kids. I really only ranted that stuff out because I needed to get it off my chest since I myself get misunderstood sometimes, and it was all starting to just boil out of me and I needed someone to see it and let me know they understood. But if people do want it bumped occasionally, I'll try to keep that in mind and may do so on occasion. Hopefully though, others will bump it occasionally as well because it makes me a little self conscious to do it very often. [QUOTE=stickboy26] With the highly verbal ones sometimes words and wording can present discomfort more so than the actual request that is presented. They may be melting down because you didn't deliver your request in a manner they could quickly process, then forced a response before they were ready, rather than because they didn't get their way. This really helps my understanding. I'm sure I tend to overlook a lot of steps when I bark out a command like - it's time to go inside. Lately I have had a lot of success in asking if he wants to go inside thru the front door or the back door and believe me trying to get him in the wrong door is 100% sure to cause a meltdown. Although he is verbal he can't usualy tell me why he is losing it, unless I ask him a yes or no question. When I was just learning this door thing, I didn't realize he was upset about the door we were using, not simply mad about going inside. I am not sure if giving him the option made him happy or it just bypassed the option of staying outside and directed his line of thought directly to which door to go in thru. But I think maybe I need to work on breaking down the commands to smaller easier to handle steps I also had a chance to try your idea of the digital watch. I haven't got one for him yet so I have been showing him my phone frequently and it is 1 for 1 so far. On our big bike ride yesterday I cheated and had my wife pick us up at the park so there was no turning around Thanks again Tom, I (not DH) always give ten- and five-minute warnings, as well as offering choices (like which door) when possible, before a transition. Our daycare taught us to do this. Lately I have also been doing something with my (I think, ADHD) DS ... when he starts a "fake" tantrum (NOT a meltdown), we had been asking him, "Has that behavior ever gotten you anything you wanted?" Recently I asked him, "How else might you act, that might get you what you want? What could you say, instead?" I would never have expected it to work -- but the novelty, at least, threw him off! He calmed, pondered, and SPOKE! Clearly would not work with a meltdown -- but perhaps worth a try, BEFORE a (NT) tantrum ... This thread helped me tremendously understand that my son was indeed having his own meltdowns...here at home and at school. My mom often warned me (as well as my NT brothers) well in advance for things like supper, bedtime, leaving to go to the store, etc.. She would often say "OK We're eating at 5:30 today. It's 4:30 so in one hour supper will be ready." Then she'd come back later and say "OK it's 5:15; supper will be on the table in about 15 minutes." That made it easier for me to wind down my playing to a stopping point, that way I would not be doing something "important" when 5:30 rolled around. I was ready for supper by the time it was on the table, so I would not freak out or melt down when my mom pulled me away from whatever I was engrossed in, as I had before she learned how to "warn" me. Nick, thanks so much for all of the insight. Adam had two terrible meltdowns this past weekend, and you have totally put it into perspective. He often will have a problem like this during what just was a long weekend for him. It is almost as if he is anticipating that things will be different than usual. And starts to be overwhelmed before the change actually occurs. Does this make sense to you? Also, I have found that just keeping silent while he is melting down is easiest for me. Sometimes he will just stand in the same room with us, and if I ask him to go to his room it starts over. When he is ready he goes in his room and when he seems relaxed enough, I rub his back and tell him to take deep breaths. That usually brings him out of it. This weekend, he couldn't describe why they happened. We tried to bring him back to the place in time, but it wasn't successfull. He actually has a checkup with the Psych today, and I will have to mention the meltdowns, and I know that he will be very upset about it. I will try and tell him it is ok. He never gets yelled at for them, but it can be overhelming for us. That does make sense. Sometimes I will go into overload in anticipation that something is about to happen, even before I have been made aware that whatever it is has happened. That's why it's so important for me to stay informed of what people around me are doing (the sea of possibilities is often so great that it is necessary for me to gather information and narrow things down in order to not panic about what might be) -- I sometimes get more worked up over what might happen than what actually happens.As far as calming down, I often fall asleep or (if sleeping is not possible) get very exhausted, sleepy, or dazed after a severe overload or meltdown. Do you think it would help to tell him in advance that you are going to have to mention the meltdowns, and also tell him what you expect the psychologist's response to be, based on what you know about him from past visits (especially if you don't expect it to be a bad response or one with stressful consequences)? It might help his mind not to race so much in anticipation. But you'll have to be specific. I also had a long weekend filled with tantrums like I have never seen before, so this thread was extremely eye-opening for me. I have severely underestimated the importance of a fixed schedule and predictablilty for my daughter. I guess in a way I personally have some reluctance to being so structured, but now can understand how much it would help her and want to change that. Stickboy, I think I speak for all of us on the boards when I say that the insight that you have to offer all of us parents is precious. Every one of us is here trying to grasp meaning and understanding of our kids and you help give them a voice. Please continue to share your thoughts with us(and they aren't rants!) because by helping us to learn more, you're helping a whole bunch of kids too. Thank you, thank you, thank you....... One day I hope to write a book about stuff like this. Unfortunately I have no IDEA how to put/organize it all into something organized, readable, and more importantly, focused and useable. In other words, it would have to have a point or premise, and that's going to be a hang up big time.I think if I could help a lot of other people it would be like my own way of fighting the condition and the problems it presents. As you get older, Nick, or at least it seems so to me, the poitns kind of make themselves. You ARE helping a lot of other people! Thanks.
Now that I think about it, I guess I can sort of tell from some of the replies I'm getting. I really appreciate everyone here.  dd...& the rest of us. Reading your post, it was some amazing insight--kind of like if I could crawl inside dd's mind & finally get some of those explanations I so long for. I will be printing this out, not only for dh & I, but for our extended family as well. Priceless info here, thanks!  You know, Nick, before you mentioned your dream of writing a book, I was thinking that you'd make an excellent autism consultant. Your posts are a pleasure to read, very insightful and well-written. Have you heard of William Stillman? He has a background similar to yours, and is now a successful autism consultant and author. Here's a link to his website, in case you're curious: http://www.williamstillman.com Another example is Stephen Shore: http://www.autismasperger.net/ Both authors can be contacted through their websites. I really encourage you to follow your dream. STickboy -- I finally got around to reading your original post (haven't had time to CUOP). So, my comment here is based on only that. THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU. You can't imagine how having a peek "inside" is helpful to those of us who only experience ASD from the outside. YOu have allowed us to "look in." I know it must cost you to put your insides out here for all to see, so I want you to know that it is so enormously helpful that IMHO, it is worth the cost. I hope you agree. I try to approach my son ASSUMING there is a rational explanation for his behavior. Even if I don't ever find out the rational explanation, it helps me try to get at what's happening and that ALWAYS helps. Pros are always telling us "behavior is communication." But nothing could possibly give us as much insight into that statement as what you first posted here. Again, thanks. ya man, u allowed me to figure out why im sometimes uptight in public or may appear to be as well as understanding where the stress comes from while constantly switching from the social scene at work as well as the one i have in my free time. I could make just the smallest changes and be much better off.Keep rockin! Thanks for this. I'm trying very hard to understand my son better. I'm trying to get to the point where I ignore much of his outbursts so he can get himself together. He doesn't have that many at home, and they are brief. He has fewer out in public, thank goodness. But at school... that's another issue. Your insights help me to see things from his eyes. Mr. Cole doesn't have many tantrums, but now that I've read all these threads, I'm seeing that when they DO happen at home or somewhere out in public with us, I couldn've probably done a better job at preparing him for what to expect. I say "tantrums" are rare because Cole typically withdraws and daydreams, but he does that even when he's happy as a clam (at least he seems happy??). Maybe him "headed for the Bahamas with a gorgeous brunette on his arm" IS his version of a tantrum? Cole loves going to hotels, on cruise ships, planes, you name it and I sometimes forget that "going downstairs for breakfast" is not clear enough when its one of those free buffets with no waitress, missing silverware, empty juice cannisters, etc. Cole had a meltdown in the hotel lobby this weekend and up until about 5 minutes ago, had zero clue I had anything to do with it. We totally missed the boat on preparing him. Duh. We're usually good with the 5 minute warnings, looking at the wall clocks, that kind of thing, but here we were in a highly transitional environment and we dropped the ball. NICK! Thank you for helping us be better parents! Hope you enjoy being elected "godfather" to all these bambinos worldwide! Thanks all. I really appreciate everyone's support. As I've said before, being able to talk about this stuff helps me to not be so alone. WOW.... I wish I had read this last week....I had a day full of errands planned with my 3 kids...haircuts, lunch, toy store, food shopping, park (2) actually....but Erin had different plans and we had a VERY bumpy start. She had a meltdown in the lunch place and I was "melting" with her I guess I did the right thing because we left, went to the car and just let her calm herslef down. My boys ( bless their hearts) try to soothe her and help her...but I said "just let her be and have some quiet"....10 minutes later she was fine. She is completely nonvrbal, so I don't know how to backtrace with her and "figure' out what set her off. Thank you so much for your post.....it has opened my eyes. I used to feel somewhat guilty for NOT comforting her, but I think I knew instintively that she DIDN"T want or need it.....but as a mom.....you feel bad NOT stepping in and making it all better. You have given me the confidence to know that it is okay to give her space, quiet and safe and let her work her own way out of the tantrum. That actually takes a load off me to know that I CAN'T fix everything and am not expected to. Thanks again !! I'm thrilled I came across this post and think it should be "stickied" into place so it doesn't get lost ! Nick my freind you are brilliant
this should be stickied no doubt ive had these in my life most autistics have this is important inside stuff to know 
i really enjoyed reading this very insightfull because ive certanily been there and felt that way. Hi David.
Glad to see you made it back here. I haven't been on a computer in nearly a week!! [quote="alissa"] Thank you so much for your post.....it has opened my eyes. I used to feel somewhat guilty for NOT comforting her, but I think I knew instintively that she DIDN"T want or need it.....but as a mom.....you feel bad NOT stepping in and making it all better. You have given me the confidence to know that it is okay to give her space, quiet and safe and let her work her own way out of the tantrum. [/quote] You are correct, but just remember when she starts coming back around, she may need the comforting. It all depends on her way of recovering. But if, once she's back to earth, she feels like she has hurt you then she will probably welcome the reassurance from you at that point. There was some discussion on this before but I would like some clarification. Is a violent (head banging...) tantrum the same as say a sad reaction/crying. My son seems to be gradually moving to less physical tantrums. I wondered if this is a spectrum thing with violent tantrums on one end and sobbing on the other. Either way it seems avoiding them involves the same approaches, but as it gets closer to the mellow side I wonder about spoiling them Last night was a pretty typical meltdown for him. My wife took our younger daughter to register for preschool. I had been in the garage when they were getting in the car I went inside. He was starting to cry looking out the window. He was able to get out "I wanted to go to L's preschool" between sobbing. For the first 5 mintutes he won't let you touch him. By now he is all choked up and screaming I ...WANT ...TO ...GO ...TO ...L's ...PRESCHOOL, like I don't under stand him even though I have said over and over I know you want... and I am trying to explain why he can't go. Then he comes over and will let you hold him. He will try to flail around, but I generally tell him he can't sit with me if he is kicking. After a few minutes he calms down and things get back to normal. I just used this as an example of the amplitude of his meltdowns, this one was easily avoided and I was a little PO'ed at the old lady for dumping that in my lap as well as putting him thru that. [quote="Phred"]Is a violent (head banging...) tantrum the same as say a sad reaction/crying. My son seems to be gradually moving to less physical tantrums. I wondered if this is a spectrum thing with violent tantrums on one end and sobbing on the other. Either way it seems avoiding them involves the same approaches, but as it gets closer to the mellow side I wonder about spoiling them [/quote]Hi Phred (or is it Tom.... can I CALL you Tom? )
Sorry for the delay. I haven't been on here in a long time and I overlooked this because it was buried under about 6 pages of posts. 
I think the variation in violence depends on 2 things: 1) If the child realizes that the violent behavior is frowned upon or makes things worse, he may learn to curb it so that he can more easily work his way toward peace and stability rather than start more trouble. He may suppress the physical outburst but the feelings will still boil over into crying or yelling, as these bodily reactions are much more difficult to hold back (and sometimes shouldn't be held back). Probably the higher functioning the child is, the more aware he is of how people are reacting to him. 2) Some people, autistic or not, are just more outward than others. Even with NTs you've got your guys who would just as soon fight you as look at you, and then you have your analysts who can beat you with words, you've got your silent troublemakers, and then your all-around passive people (or you can just remember Gary's speech at the end of Team America ). Anyway, I think the severity of the outburst can simply have a lot to do with the child's natural disposition, which is actually independent from the autism itself.
But the underlying feeling is pretty much the same. It's a panic resulting from losing one's bearings on his environment, so I think it should probably be treated the same way no matter how it looks. Some kids will even withdraw and hide rather than throw a fit, and they will be so gripped by panic that they won't be able to speak to you or make a sound at all. It's a panic resulting from losing one's bearings on his environment... [/QUOTE] Wow--what a crystal clear description, IMO. I will remember that when our family starts asking questions about dd's meltdowns & her withdrawal from family gatherings. Heck, I'll even replay it in my mind when I'm confused as to what's going on. Thanks again! You rock!  Wow, I didn't catch this post the first time around becaue we were moving that week. I am SO glad it was bumped up! Nick, you are amazing! I definitely think you should write a book - I would stand in line to be one of the first to get it, let me tell you! I can kind of tell when ds is having a rough day that we will eventually be headed for a meltdown. What I find strange is that once he has the meltdown and then settles down - he usually seems to feel better and has much better behavior for quite a while. After reading your post, I wonder if he then starts to calm down, figure out his environment and since he probably doesn't like these meltdowns - he works even harder to not have them happen again. Here I was thinking that he needed a release, when maybe he is even more stressed after trying furiously to not have another meltdown? Nick - thanks for your insights. My Jack is on the low end of the spectrum and has melts ALL THE TIME. Sometimes I just sit and hold him for HOURS on end while he asks me to sing Amazing Grace and lots of other hymns or hold him while he listens to kids sing hymns cd - (that is his FAVORITE music ,all the hymns, isn't that awesome!) It gets old - and we have had to leave many places - but the more calm I can be, the more calm he gets. KEEP POSTING, Nick ,please! Thanks Nick You can call me Tom. Phred is my own spelling of a nick name that has stuck for 20 years or so. It came from freddy facts, can you believe a guy called freddy facts has an ASD kid? Now there's a surprise! I think your #1 is currently my #1 goal in handling these. Trying to delicately educate him the effects of these tantrums. I think it was Norway Mom's post that linked a paper on behavioral modification and broke it down into 3 priorities by level of safety, distruption and convenience. We are getting to the point where we have to be harder on him. He does not have meltdowns at preschool or when my mother watches him. I am sure he stresses then, but he doesn't explode. Some of it is probably him being comfortable around us that allows him to "show his feelings", but we need to start playing a little harder and I think he is ready for it on a more positive note we had a great overnight camp out with a lot of friends with kids. He did great and probably passed for "normal". About 2/3's of the people there know his condition, although most would probably suspect something b/c he gets a lot of special attention. People who know him really work hard at including him and it is a little noticible. It's really awesome to be around friends who know what's going on. He always manages to blow everyone away at some point though, nobody knew why he was saying "the tree is upside down" until I noticed the pond was perfectly calm and had a reflection of the tree on the other bank. [QUOTE=Phred]He always manages to blow everyone away at some point though, nobody knew why he was saying "the tree is upside down" until I noticed the pond was perfectly calm and had a reflection of the tree on the other bank. [/QUOTE] WOW -- that remark sounds SO like something Tuhina would say!!! I love your nickname ... and the story behind it! Nick, I am just reading this thread. Thank you so much for breaking this down in such a clear simple way and helping us to understand what is going on. You know you have helped not only with my ASD child but with some other adults I know. Thanks a lot. Concernedpa. I actually came here today to post about my son's meltdowns and your post was exactly what I needed to read. Thank you for your wisdom and your insight!
Thanks, Maureen Yes, thank you for this valuable information. This makes perfect sense. I guess what my son is feeling is how I would feel if someone is yelling at me (confused, loss of understanding, feeling a need for isolation). I feel like have another tool on my belt to help him on his journey and to undersand the road he is walking. Thank you so very much. Wow, this thread just keeps reviving itself. I had no idea when I posted it that it would make sense to so many people, let alone help them, but I'm really glad that it has.I really hope there is more I can do to help; I will try my best.  You are so kind to take the time to explain that - thank you. All I want to do is help my son deal with life. If I have to do it his way, that's fine. I'm going to try much harder to prepare him for the unknown - sometimes I just forget that he needs that special preparation time with pictures/explainations.WOW what a wonderful post. I have always felt that the tantrums where aharder for my daughter then they were for those around her. She always seems so sad afterwards. When they start I usually just walk away and when she finished she usually comes to me and says "up" because she wants a hug. And yes she gets one and we talk about what happened and why - mostly a one sided conversation, but I know that she understands most of what I am saying. (she is 3) I just spent an hour holding my 4.5 y-o son after a meltdown over something to do with watching a video on TV. Probably ending it early and then not rewinding the tape (he kept repeating rewind the tape). The idea of rewinding life until the last normal moment before things went south sounds like a good one. I'll try to talk him through it next time.Thanks for the post, however old it may be. stickboy,My son is 6 ,his meltdowns usually start with stomping growling (GERRRRR) then he starts to" Mean Talk". I hate you,your stupid ,I don't need you ,get away from me ,On and on.If we Ignore him he will follow us around the house yelling and stomping ,he is trying to get us to respond ,but if we do it just feeds the Fire. He is non reachable at this point,He only does this at home,any suggestions on how to Handel this. This post ROCKS,Linda
Linda. i am glad to see that i am not the only one who has a child that growls....when savannah starts growling, I will say to her, oh my a big bear came and took my vannah, and now I know that he wants something but I cant understand what, and very quickly she says Here I am and I want whatever it is. As it turns out I know a little girl right now who "mean talks" during some of her episodes. She belongs to a friend of mine. As it is I have not found anything to slow this process down. However, I have noticed that she never means what she says; she's a very loving person outside of her meltdowns. If I happen to be the one comforting her during one of these, all I do is just let her talk. She will allow me to hold her close to me, but she will mean talk at the same time, sometimes directed at another person and sometimes directed at herself. The latter worries me, which is why I like to stay with her until she is over it. Once she is over it, though, she doesn't seem to recall ever thinking or saying those things, so I avoid bringing them up. I also do not argue with her while she is saying it and it seems to pass more quickly that way. Again, I don't really know what to do to prevent this from happening, but if your son is anything like this girl, he does not mean what he is saying. When I first met this little girl, I remember thinking that she could be dangerous someday, but after having known her for over 4 years now, I can see that this is probably not the case, and I'm sure it's the same with your son. If you are going to "respond" to what he is doing, you might try responding by just trying to comfort him and reassure him and see if that helps any. You're right not to respond to what he is saying because it will indeed feed the anxiety. That's all I can think of for now.I guess I'd better bump this one too (as though it needed to be any longer ), seeing as how the phobia thread seems to be taking a turn in this direction.I've seen a few turn in this direction. I can't hold my eyes open..its right after midnight and I'm not functioning well enough to read and comprehend. I'll have to pick up where I left off tomorrow. Good stuff though!G'night! [quote="gdanes"]I can't hold my eyes open..its right after midnight and I'm not functioning well enough to read and comprehend. I'll have to pick up where I left off tomorrow.[/quote] Totally understandable.  I've become somewhat of a nightowl lately. Whoa! I just noticed the view counter on this thread and there have been nearly 2600 hits on this baby! 
Who would have ever thought it when it just started out as a vent... Hey - Nick I just worked my way throught this thread - very interesting! My eight year old is also a sweety pie til he hits 'meltdown' only his meltdown just looks like he's losing his temper. He just shouts at me or whoever upset him and if he's really upset he'll throw something (soft). I feel kind of bad for him but it happens over the samllest things and several times a day sometimes. Is this also a meltdown or should I send him to his room for behaving like this? I'm really torn about it. When he was younger a meltdown looked like a meltdown, now I don't know if he's just using it to get his own way with us and his brothers. It's not fair on them that he can behave badly and not be punished. Hey - Nick I just worked my way throught this thread - very interesting! My eight year old is also a sweety pie til he hits 'meltdown' only his meltdown just looks like he's losing his temper. He just shouts at me or whoever upset him and if he's really upset he'll throw something (soft). I feel kind of bad for him but it happens over the samllest things and several times a day sometimes. Is this also a meltdown or should I send him to his room for behaving like this? I'm really torn about it. When he was younger a meltdown looked like a meltdown, now I don't know if he's just using it to get his own way with us and his brothers. It's not fair on them that he can behave badly and not be punished. Hard to say. Generally speaking kids on the spectrum aren't particularly interested in forcing their way with others as much as they are in keeping their own environment regulated. Usually a panic is the result of them being out of touch with what stimuli to expect and when. But that's just generally speaking. I don't know anything about your son so it's a tough call on my part. I think he should know that his behavior is not acceptable, but at the same time you need to identify the triggers (including the underlying reason behind them) so that he doesn't have to reach this stage of panic so often. If he's autistic, you can just about bet that the meltdowns are as bad for him as they are for everyone else. Boobear calling nightowl... R u still awake, stickboy ? Coz, if u r, then I want to thank you for ALL your inputs abt meltdowns etc... I for one believe that a kid(still small enough to be "carried") in meltdown mode must never be allowed to progress into FULL-BLOWN aggresive and violent tantrums... Something has to be done. BUT yet easier said than done, especially if the child is no longer a child but somebody physically taller or stronger than you, like a teenager !! [/quote] 5:00 in the afternoon? I'm awake all right. Just getting started as a matter of fact!
It's my belief that if a child can find a way to avoid melting down, he will be willing, if not eager, to employ it because of the emotional overload that meltdowns bring with them. Overload is always a scary thing. Oopsy daisy... I forgot... It's 6.20 am Malaysian time now... You are right about the overload part... that's why one way to start "responding" ... not "treating" a meltdown is to bring the child away to a new scenario. Earlier threads, parents have mentioned about bringing outdoors into the woods for a walk... or even a run-about.... I never liked allowing a head-banging kid to continue banging his head whether on the floor, wall or with his fist. My son does better if I let him go and finish it out. If I try to make William sit to calm down or take him away from the situation it seems to make things worse. So now after the reading I have done.. I just let him have his meltdown. Especially when its concerning his video games. He seems to have a routine he goes through and it drives him crazy when he finds a new game he likes, but can't master it immediately. So he continues to try and try with a meltdown at every failure until he's gotten through it. Its hard on everyone in the house, but my daughter and I are able to block it out so it doesn't bother us. I manage to talk on the phone through his meltdowns and the people on the other end can hardly hear me and can't believe how I'm able to block it. After 8 years it just comes natural.. heheIts past midnight and I'm still up! Its about time I started acting my age... hehehe I'm seeing lots of new members in the past couple of week so I'm going to bump this post again so that the newbies will see it. Mary, bless your heart for bumping this up. It is absolutely what I needed today (actually what I need to show my husband today Nick, you are amazing and I can't thank you enough for this post and the many others I have read from you. You provide me great insight into my son and I will be forever grateful to you for your open sharing. Hey Nick, I hope you don't mind but I borrowed your "anatomy of a meltdown" and sent it to a few people. One was my son's teacher and the other is a parent in my area who's having a problem with her son and meltdowns. Nick, I can't thank you enough for sharing this post. It will help me and my son sooooo much! Daniel Nick,gtto,woodsman, you all are truly amazing people. you are information resources within yourselves. You bring true light to this forum.Nick, I am not sure if anyone commented on what you said about kids in the lower end of the spectrum and their meltdowns. But your right, with Abby there is no warning it just happens and sometimes it is extra hard to figure out what the meltdown is about because she is already in the middle of it and I don't even have a warning. Bless you Nick for sharing such a personal struggle!!!! You have no idea how much you have helped Kim Stickboy26,THANK YOU so much for posting about "meltdowns". I am a para educator at a school for learning disabilities in Houston, Texas and work with a few autistic children. And I am so thankful to have been given a better insight to their meltdowns and how they process information and cope. I understand just a bit more now, and will surely use this information to benefit my students. This is my first year to work with these students and I want to be able to assist them in all ways possible. May I contact you with any questions that I may have. Thank you so much. I read your post and was saying to myself "oh my gosh my children do that, and that's why I understand a little better". Again, thank you. Latisha Whoo Hooo...they stickied the post finally Nick...You're famous now lol.Thanks all. I have been having issues the last few weeks and so I haven't been paying attention to the board as much as I have in the past. My mind just hasn't seemed to be clicking the way I need it to in order to post anything useful. A lot of times these past few weeks I have just read the posts but can't come up with much of a reply other than a "Nice" or a "Cute" or "" or something like that. Unfortunately by the time I can finally rattle off what's happened to me, I will probably be recovered enough that I won't need your words of kindness as much as I do now... Sorry for that.
But I am happy that my interpretation has been so useful to so many people. I want to thank everyone who has made me feel welcome here.
Also, anyone who wants to contact me about anything is more than welcome to do so. Some people have PMed me before, also my email is stickboy_127@yahoo.com. I have had some people go that route as well. I welcome the questions, but I don't always get on the computer, so sometimes it takes me a couple of days (or in the case of this thread, a couple of weeks?! ) to get back to them. ive missed ya and am happy to see you back
this is one of the most facsinating posts ive ever read and thank you very much for making it im glad its helped so many of the great parents here
oh and Rhosyn i agree nick is famous now 
all we need for him now is a limo some nice girls and some champane [quote="Rainman"]all we need for him now is a limo some nice girls and some champane [/quote]
Yeah, you do that. Then I can finally quit holding out for the "sexual harassment" outlet.
BTW Rainman you got post #100 on this thread. Yeah, you do that. Then I can finally quit holding out for the "sexual harassment" outlet.
BTW Rainman you got post #100 on this thread. [/QUOTE]
nicky consider it done dont worry my freind i promise you have seen the last of those lawsuits
i feel lucky to have post 100 i guess its just my lucky day Try rubbing his spine for a while it calms Daniel for a while. I would also try haveing relaxing oils in the class room as a gift for his teacher's I did 1 year. Sadly 1 kid fell asleep in class. Just see that use don't use to much. [QUOTE=daniel's mom] Try rubbing his spine for a while it calms Daniel for a while. I would also try haveing relaxing oils in the class room as a gift for his teacher's I did 1 year. Sadly 1 kid fell asleep in class. Just see that use don't use to much. [/QUOTE]
That could work.
Hmmmm.... maybe I could get some of those "nice girls" that Rainman is supposed to be rounding up to try that whole spine thing out on me next time I melt down.... maybe in the back of that limo he was talking about.... it's worth a shot, right? 
OK fine, possibly out of context for this thread, but I totally couldn't resist. I suppose you just joined the conversation at the "wrong" time... [/quote] Changed the title of this thread -- I liked Rhosyn's suggestion. i like the new title sounds professional and well reserched Dr nick i like the new title sounds professional and well reserched Dr nick [/QUOTE]
Well at least I was professional enough to cite my source... ahem... [quote="stickboy26"]I liked Rhosyn's suggestion. [/quote] Thank you we try my boy nicky has made me laugh on several occasions
the other dude here dave (woodsman) is hyesterically funny as well Thank you. Thanks everyone. I'll be here all afternoon.
Seriously, I will -- I don't have a freakin thing planned for today.... 
me neither  my days off are so uneventfull i went dvd shopping today though I have a 15 year old that meltsdown by kicking the walls of the house in. He has now destroyed most of the house and broken three toilets and every boxspring on every bed which is about 5. We put him on prozac two months ago and it got a little better now he's at it again. We got him a trampoline about a month ago and that worked really well until he got used to it and no longer wants to jump on it at the right time (when he is about to have a meltdown). It's one thing to be high functioning enough to go away and be alone and think about the situation, it's a whole other thing to be the parent of a child that is out of control sometimes and getting help is so hard. He was actually quite mild as a child but puberty hit him hard. He's gotten sexually aggresive also. Wants to masterbate a lot and "touch" females. He cannot be trusted with girls of any age. I am in the process of trying to find some respite. It's hard because most state workers are not exactly first class and could not handle this. [quote="stickboy26"]
Seriously, I will -- I don't have a freakin thing planned for today.... [/quote] Scratch that -- my brother and parents are going to see REO Speedwagon play at the Arkansas State Fair and have talked me into going along.
[quote="ajrbcr"]I have a 15 year old that meltsdown by kicking the walls of the house in. He has now destroyed most of the house and broken three toilets and every boxspring on every bed which is about 5. We put him on prozac two months ago and it got a little better now he's at it again. We got him a trampoline about a month ago and that worked really well until he got used to it and no longer wants to jump on it at the right time (when he is about to have a meltdown). It's one thing to be high functioning enough to go away and be alone and think about the situation, it's a whole other thing to be the parent of a child that is out of control sometimes and getting help is so hard. He was actually quite mild as a child but puberty hit him hard. He's gotten sexually aggresive also. Wants to masterbate a lot and "touch" females. He cannot be trusted with girls of any age. I am in the process of trying to find some respite. It's hard because most state workers are not exactly first class and could not handle this. [/quote] Wow, sorry about that. That certainly brings this thread abruptly back to reality. I wish you the best -- that's a tough one to tackle and your son may not even realize the implications of what he's doing. Sad to say the consequences will only worsen as he goes into adulthood.  I hope all works out OK. ajrbcr, I hope you will be able to find a solution soon for your boy. You might want to start a new thread and others can zoom in better on your predicament and offer some help... My thoughts and prayers to you and your family... Btw, you look cool Nick... and keep up the good vibes and encouraging insights !! [/quote] Well my famous first words are always that I can't pretend to be inside his head, but if I were hiding in the bathroom after a meltdown it would be for one of two reasons: 1) I need to be away from the people I've been around in order to calm down. These people are either causing the meltdown directly, or making it worse by forcing me to respond to them while I'm emotionally/mentally incapable. 2) I am aware of the uproar that my behavior has caused and am afraid to face my peers because I assume they are still mad at me for it. If they are, and they question me about it, it could re-ignite the meltdown -- which I want to avoid at *any* cost -- so since I can't go home, the only thing I know to do is seclude myself for as long as possible. The more time that elapses between my tantrum and my return will be more of a buffer to the other kids' memory, and maybe if I stay away long enough, they'll forget it completely or be out of the mood to talk about it by the time I return. If #2 is the case, you may not be able to keep him from hiding at all, but to keep this from taking so long he may need at least one of his peers to earn his trust enough to believe that they will stick up for him when necessary. If #1 is the case, then hiding may actually be his method of re-booting, which is necessary for calming down. In this case you'd probably have to ward off the meltdowns completely in order to prevent the seclusion. Thanks so much for the very insightful description of what is feels like to be going through a "meltdown/tantrum/shutdown" it made a ton of sense to me. As a parent it is so heartbreaking, frustrating and a feeling of hopelessness of not knowing what to do when it is full blown.. You feel compelled to do something ... Sarah will tantrum rarely..her mode of survival is to zone out and shut down which although better on my senses You are lovely to let us in your world~Thanks:) No problem. It gets lonely in here, you know.
Nick, I think you're a genius! Truly. You have an incredible amount of self- awareness and insight into what drives you as a human being. You have an enviable ability to communicate all this wisdom through the written word. I am so happy you found us all on this board. I'm really grateful for all your contributions. Thanks for the post I had a question on my sons meltdowns. One consistent meltdown we struggle with involves turning around or ending what we are doing. For instance when we go for a walk in the woods, at some point we need to stop and turn around or at least start heading back to the house. He seems to know exactly when we are no longer going away from home and he will say "I want to go this way". This way is always farther away. Normally if I have time (or daylight) for a long walk I can make a big loop and possibly avoid the meltdown, but sometimes I have my 3 yearold with us or daylight is ending or the bugs are coming out and we have to turn back. I try to tell him multiple times (before and during the walk) that, for instance "we can walk to the field, but then we will have to turn around and go home". This does not seem to change things. His meltdowns are not too severe, last a minute or so and usually end with him coming over for a hug. I leave for most bike rides, walks or just outdoor playing knowing that ending it will be an issue, but I hope I am doing the right thing and his enjoyment of the activity is worth the stress of ending it. This all seems to get better when summer is older and he is starting to learn that we can and will take another walk/ride the next day. But living in New York we are constantly changing activities and each one seems to be a clean start. Each time he does something he likes for the first time of the season it is a huge issue. On our first cross country ski run this year we were out for over an hour and I had to carry him most of the way home. It was way too cold to keep going so I had to end it and all hell broke. I just wish there was a way to help him thru this he is getting big enough so it is hard carrying him when all else fails Thanks for any insights - PS - love your signature Hang on, Phred, let me go back and get something.......[quote="stickboy26"]Well my famous first words are always that I can't pretend to be inside his head,[/quote] There. I need to just be able to enter this as an automatic pre-post disclaimer.
Anyway, I figure he is wanting to go certain directions because he wants to get a visual of how the paths through the woods are laid out. Is he the just-turned-5-year old in your sig? If so, he probaly does not have a good grasp on what the warning signs are that it is nearing time to end the walk, and his intense curiosity is unexpectedly cut short by time to leave. How is he with numbers? If he doesn't get them at all, then this advice will be useless, but I'll give it a try anyway. If he can count, and understand how numbers go in sequence, try giving him a digital watch to wear. Tell him before you go on the walk that you have to stop at a certain time in order to return home before the bugs come out. Remind him several times to look at his watch while you are out, and remind him what time means leave (Get practice now before the days start getting progressively shorter ). If he can learn to tell time and understand how the watch counts, it might help him to anticipate changes. I don't even know if he does numbers at all, but by the time I was in kindergarten, telling time was helping me greatly in the way of anticipating when things were going to start and stop. This is an interesting post, but I don't see where you discussed meltdowns. I can see where when you shut down that is painful for you to deal with, and difficult for those around you that don't understand what is happening, but it's the complete opposite response to what a meltdown is. I think you're right in that it's not possible to control the behavior, and no child should be punished for a meltdown. I feel physical and emotional pain when my son has a meltdown, and I've never thought of punishing him for having a meltdown. My thoughts have always been to help calm him down without further injury, and to then try to understand why the meltdown started. I would describe a meltdown as a monster tantrum, which is almost impossible to stop. My son is so out of control of his decisions by the time he has reached a meltdown, that he will bang his head with force into a window, or bang his head on a concrete floor and will not physicaly feel the pain. He will scream, bite, throw, hit, head bang and have no concept he is hurting himself or any one in his way. He rarely has meltdowns any more, but that's because we are very aware of what triggers them, and have the ability to redirect him, and we have emergency medication that helps calm him down very quickly. People often use the word meltdown, in situations where it's something much milder, and dilutes what a true meltdown is. If you've seen a child have a major meltdown, where they're either going to injury themselves or someone close by, you won't have to ask if it's a meltdown, it's very obvoius. [quote]I would describe a meltdown as a monster tantrum, which is almost impossible to stop. My son is so out of control of his decisions by the time he has reached a meltdown, that he will bang his head with force into a window, or bang his head on a concrete floor and will not physicaly feel the pain. He will scream, bite, throw, hit, head bang and have no concept he is hurting himself or any one in his way.[/quote] Exactly. Meltdown is where all the feelings that I described are pushed beyond the capacity for reasonable thought, and it all boils over into what you describe as a tantrum. The shut down and zone out are often a prequel to this -- in other words, the last line of defense, which is all too often shattered by a further stimulus, thus pulling the trigger. I did describe the lack of environmental awareness and responsiveness, as well as the outburst itself. I think what you didn't catch was how the shutting down, zoning out, and "backtalking" (which I described in much lengthier detail) factored into and led up to it. There's no point in describing the actual meltdown in that much detail because the only thing you can do is freeze frame the situation and allow it to pass. You can't actually communicate with your child when he is in this condition. Once he comes out of it he will revert back to the shut down stage, which is where you can begin to bring him (or he can begin to bring himself) back to earth. As I said (and I'm not assuming your kid applies here) some kids, especially those on the low end of the spectrum, tend to seemingly go into meltdown instantly, without the warning signs, and I think it may be that they have not yet developed the mental lines of defense that, in my case, came from wanting to please others and realizing that outward tantrums accomplished just the opposite. There is always a noticeable outward expression of some sort when I use the term "meltdown," but different kids/people express it in different ways. Regardless of how the tantrum manifests itself, however, the emotion is the same: gripping fear or anguish sufficient to obstruct rational thought or logical reasoning. Just because one kid is throwing himself through walls or windows does not mean that he is not equally as inconsolable as the kid who is simply screaming on the floor or crying secretly in his room. And thus, the problem must be dealt with in the same manner, regardless of what it looks like from the outside. Yes, Nick! Thank you for that. Tuhina sometimes "loses it" but quickly recovers her cool ... but I do not feel like things are then resolved. I usually hold her and talk gently to her until I think she actually feels better. Thanks for your interesting insights, Nick. I've often wondered if that was, in fact, what was going on with my son when he has a meltdown. I've often noticed that he will withdraw to the play area in the basement and pace back and forth underneath the lights and stare at them. Thankfully, I realized awhile back that this was his way of coping, but now that you mention it, I also realize that if I interrupt this behavior, he goes into a full-on tantrum. I will keep that in mind this afternoon, when he goes down there after the big boys get home from school... Thank you very much for that insight! You are a great asset to this board! [quote="foxl"]Tuhina sometimes "loses it" but quickly recovers her cool ... but I do not feel like things are then resolved. I usually hold her and talk gently to her until I think she actually feels better.[/quote]That's probably not a bad idea at all. It helps a great deal to know that someone is still on your side, especially when you feel like you've done something to hurt them. There are certain people (Dad I think!) who think I am spoiling her or letting her manipulate me. But her distress seems genuine, that something is not going her way. I do not give in to her expectation (as in something like, "I am supposed to get to eat whatever I want!!!" sometimes followed by "You're stupid!"), but I do offer comfort. [QUOTE=stickboy26] Yes I am writing about my just turned 5 son. That is a great idea. Believe me he knows numbers Yeah, it's true that there's a fine line there. I do realize that. But it's really good that there are those who make an effort to define it, as it really does need to be defined as closely as possible. Phred I think the digital watch will help a lot if he does numbers. He'll see how the hours of the day correspond to light/dark, lunchtime, bedtime, and other things. I remember I used to really flip out and cease to function if I could not find my watch, because it was my guide to changes like that. I wore it almost continuously to avoid the anxiety of wondering what time it was and which change I could expect. In grade school I had an intense phobia of the school bell because it hurt my ears, startled me, and grated on my nerves if I was not anticipating it. So I figured out how to set my watch so that the bell would ring exactly when the seconds rolled over to "00," that way I would not be startled. You should have seen my mom trying to get me to go to school on those mornings when I couldn't find my watch. I just wanted to mention quickly that I described the meltdown because that is all my son does. When his meltdown is over he does not shut down. He loves being the center of attention and doesn't spend much time alone, once calmed down and the meltdown is over, he goes back to his usual behavior once it's over. He really doesn't have many meltdowns any more, and we can see them coming. He used to have lots until we found out he has hypogylcemia, and as long as he has frequent snacks those meltdowns no longer happen. It's interesting that you shut down afterwards, but my son has never done that, and honestly I had never heard about it, obviously it's common, just not something my son does. I guess it gets back to the fact that autism is not my son's main diagnosis, and that his many autistic tendencies just make him very different. I wanted to add that when I have meltdowns, it's not necessarily correlated to whether I am dealing with social information or not. It's just too much information all at once and it all gets crammed into a tight bottleneck either trying to interpret too fast or respond too fast, and then my body flails around in response. True, and it's interesting to note that sensory overload seems to cause physical discomfort (skin crawling/invisible irritation, localized fatigue, etc.). Some of the stimming behaviors I use, such as rubbing my skin, contorting, or scratching, can actually be in response to these physical sensations as much as to the eomtional issues.Jeeze stick boy, u gave me alot to think about i never took the time to think why my past socail life sucked so much my friends and neghboors never understood why i was strange and would get angry sometimes, they thought i was a bad kid and that was rough cause sometimes even tho i liked isolation i always had the deisre to fit in. Now i have another problem, because i never thought about why i zone out or freak out sometimes, i dont freak out so much anymore unless their is too much going on around me and nobody will get off my back but while just casually socializing, like at the bar or at a friends house in order to stay focused and be sociable when i dont feel like it (i have to often be when i am not i dont control when my friends come over or when we all wanna meet at the bar) i must go with the flow never know what i may be gettin into and although we have fun i pull into myself sometimes when too much is going on and instead of being smart about it and figuring out why i do these things and try to avoid it and continue being socail in unfarmilar places and settings i cope by drinking, smoking pot or taking these paowerful painkillers that i dont need other then because they make me feel comfortable and then i can socailize and not look like im daydreaming and not paying attention, my friends get mad when they need to repeat things and think that im bored with um it really agitates me but i have coped like this for all my socail life, since i have been in high school and i dont want people on this board to think im a bad person by doing all these drugs and being a drunk, i really wanna help to but this is a serious problem all my friends think i have a problem when really i only do these things when they are around to cope. My parents think im a drunk, and my friends think im a tad excessive not to say they dont do these things as well and its a serious problem i would like nothing more then to stop and be social like normal people without these aids but i cant and i feel horrible because of it. U gave me something to think about but i feel ill always need these aids my whole life to be able to fit in and converse like a normal person. |
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