Chelation Treatment | Autism PDD


Hello Heidi,

Pleas explain the treatment you are using.The one with the epsom salts and vitamin c. I would like to try it on my son







Sure thing.  I have 6 kids, two aspergers, 1 with delayed speech and tourrettes, 1 with delayed speech, and 1 with OCD and incoherant speech.  My kids are nearly all symptom-free now.  I just cry all the time when I see other affected kids because I know they could get better as well.  I have done much research.

Well, studies show that Vitamin C can reduce mercury levels and of course has a million other benefits.  Chewable, buffered or Vitamin C with bioflavoniods are recommended.  I guess we have gotten the best results from chewable and buffered powdered.  I remember that Vitamin C affects vitamin E absorption, so research that because I think you have to make sure they get Vitamin E here and there as well.  I give everyone at least five times the RDA, but they say it is good to give 20 times the RDA and that it is best to give it more than once a day since Vitamin C only stays in your body less than an hour but is needed throughout the day.  I have also read that large doses of Vitamin C is what some doctors give to combat vaccine reactions, given the same day or the day after. 

Epsom salts:  Well, I read in some forums that Autism moms were finding success using epsom salt baths with their children.  Well, I have too many to fuss with that, so I bought the epsom salt cream.  You just put it on 1 to 3 times a day.  It comes in zinc or magnesium with sulphate.  The sulphate binds with the mercury to remove it, and then the magnesium is absorbed through the skin as well, to help the intestines work better.   I read that symptoms are increased at first but then decrease.  Well, that is what happened here.  It really helped with the mood swings for two of my children.  We all use it here now.  I just apply it once a day.  Now, it took a month to get noticeable improvement on one of my Aspergers who was on practically nothing else at the time, and it took only a couple of days to see noticeable results for my other Aspergers who was on many supplements. 

Now, these two therapies really need to be done for a long time because they slowly work and need to be continually given, maybe after two years one can stop them and see if symptoms return.  My kids have been on treatments from 3 months to 9 months now.  (Some I just started 3 months ago.)

Also keep in mind, that these alone, will not be enough to get most children symptom-free.  I also do nutritional supplements, fish oil, etc. 

Fish oil will also take out toxins but only if it is high quality.

Ask me anything, anytime. 



that is funny--it's working fine here.

[edited to remove ambiguity]

Horseless39218.6127662037This is exactly this kind of information I am looking for.  Thank you very much for the link and your comments.  I think in about 20 years the medical profession will have come to a definite conclusion about all of this and exactly what causes what.  But thats too late for us.  Again, thanks.   

Dear AndrewsMom:

What do you think of the stealth virus or SV 40 theory?  I noticed that antiviral supplementation works well for my children.  What if it knocked out the body's ability to detox and such.  I'm giving it my vote for now.





Dear AndrewsMom:

I thank you for your straight-forward information.  You are right about the fact that we are all learning methods to help our children from doctors who decided to do something different.   I am so grateful to them.  I cry when I watch my children live normally, where as before, they were so unhappy and frustrated.  Its a miracle, I just wish we could solve the causation dilemna today. 

For those of you unfamiliar with stealth virus info, here is a link...

My opinion is that viruses and or parasites may be part of the list of potential causes or environmental triggers of autism.  I do not think that the potential polio immunization contamination issue is related to the rise in autism cases, at least not at this point in time.  This is another reason why I have lost faith in the FDA.  I used to blindly trust the CDC and the FDA...this is a part of my PROFESSION.  But with age and experience comes wisdom (hopefully, anyway), and I would like to investigate personally...Perhaps one day when Andrew is older and doing even better and better!

The DAN! docs who started the biomedical treatment protocol did so for the right reasons.  They questioned the medical authorities of the time and collaborated to determine if there was anything that they were all seeing that could be a part of the cause of autism.  They did not blindly believe, and they started doing their own research...No one questions the motives of the parents described in the movie, "Lorenzo's Oil", right?

Finally, my being a doc helps me to understand what I read.  I graduated med school in 1989 and residency in 1993.  Nothing prepared me for the experience of having an autistic child...NOTHING!  I knew as little as other parents do.  My profession gives me a leg up on the speed with which I can read, learn, understand, dissect, criticize, etc. etc, info, but I am still a Mommy!  I have the same feelings and questions and sense of urgency as everyone else.  Going to medical school wouldn't help you as a parent if you DID have the time because the answers are unknown.  This is why I say DO YOUR HOMEWORK...TALK TO PEOPLE...ASK QUESTIONS...READ...SURF THE NET...This is what I do, and I'm a doc!

Good luck to all (sorry about the soap box towards the end!)!

Dear Horseless,

I start out vague because I don't always know what people are looking for.  I am here as a parent, and I do not "practice Medicine" on these boards.  I have been criticized for too much info or for info that has been misinterpreted, but I always do my best to help.

With conventional medical hat on, and from my residency training, I'd have to say, "Avoid Chelation", but that's the "party line"...It doesn't mean that it's RIGHT.  With maternal hat on and because I have always been interested in alternative/complementary medicine, I would say to read as much as you can.  Heidi N's posts are good.  If you want a true overview to the biomedical theories and approaches to the treatment of autism, read "Children With Starving Brains", by Jaclyn McCandless.  She is a physician and the grandmother of Chelsea who has autism.  The third edition recently came out, and there are annotated footnotes.  Excellent book to get you started!

Dear Horseless:  That is why you are here, to learn.  I know this stuff is unbelieveable.  I have cried for months about the stuff I have been learning and don't want to believe. 

Your question concerning if there is a FDA warning on DAN doctors.  Well, I don't think there could be because DAN doctors are all medical doctors.  If the FDA feels a medical doctor is a quack, they just pull that doctor's license.  Thus, I don't see why they would put out a warning.  And there are lots of studies showing chelation helps, but it is not the absolute answer for most.  Let me find some for you.  I came across them months ago when I was researching it all.  I didn't save any though.  Here is a website that just took a second to find.  It has numerous medical studies published.  The first paragraph of each study is called and Abstract and it is free.  For the whole study, you would have to pay, but you only need the Abstract.  The Abstract is a summary of the reason for the study and the findings.  When going to this website, you will find a study showing a correlation and if you look to the left of that page, you will see other studies, of which you can click on and read the abstracts.  I looked over a few briefly, and most said, there is a definite correlation, and in my past studying, that is also what I found.  I know for myself, that my kids are all affected, and I got immunization shots while pregnant, had 13 silver fillings and had dental work done while pregnant.  All of these are no no's.  Well, now I know, but if I would of known earlier, I believe things would have been different. 

Please keep an open mind, because our children depend on us.  I want to help as many as possible, so please keep learning and keep asking questions. plus&db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&am p;list_uids=14976450

Heidi N

I am interested in this Vitamin C theory of chelation
I have heard about it

but I wondered if you can point me to some studies
or more information

If it is appropriate
maybe start a new thread



Chelation IS a medically PROVEN treatment for very specific things like severe LEAD POISONING, for instance...It is therefore not an excessive stretch to consider the possibility that heavy metal poisoning with mercury or other metals could be treated the same way.

Yes, I understand that there are supposedly no studies proving a link between mercury, either in a vaccine or in another type of exposure, or other heavy metals causing or even contributing to autism.  However, I do not totally believe this.  I am a loyal, idealistic, board certified, American Family Physician, but I have seen many things with my own eyeballs that have discouraged me and caused me to doubt some of what comes out of the mouths of spokespeople for the FDA, CDC, and NIH.

Do not jump to conclusions.  Do not judge others.  Keep an open mind.  Do your homework...

There was a time when osteopathic physicians, or DOs, were considered "quacks".  Now osteopathic manipulative medicine and chiropractic treatments are standard procedures that help millions each day.

I am just curios what kind of behaviors your son had that kept him out of school. My son was in a class where they expected nothing out of him, and that is what he did. Now, he is doing well at a private school. I also think age  has more to do with it than medical treatments. How do you know your son just isn't maturing?

If anyone could provide the website for any warning from the FDA about chelation specific to ASD/ADHD,  I'd appreciate it.  I looked for quite a while and unfortunately their website seems to keep every scrap of any junk anyone ever submitted so I got nowhere doing keyword searches.  While we did do the testing (surprise surprise they found all sorts of metals and things, but gee my pediatrician asks why did they have to send the specimens to a place in France?), I am very highly suspicious of all of this.  Theres a few thousand people (even with Dr. in front of their names) who will not hesitate to take advantage of desperate caring parents if it can mean a dollar for them.  So, does anyone have a link to any FDA or other government source for warnings about DAN/chelation?     

Whenever I stop his supplements or any of my other children's supplements, their symptoms return. 

There are very few symptoms he didn't have.  He was so out of it, that without psych meds, he would have had to been institutionalized.  With the psych meds, he was able to do special needs schooling, but he had to have many modifications and it was still a struggle.    His symptoms are really too long a list, but I will touch on some.  Staring off into space, impulsively assaulting, communication was not productive, it took him sometimes an hour just to begin to take a test (he would gaze, drop things, ask questions, argue, write and erase or pick at a speck of dust for hours), make repetitive noises, bump into people, insist on sameness, transition was a nightmare, deny everything you point out to him, tell you he knows everything about everything and that you know nothing, throw things, hit himself, say and do things he denies remembering, fall out of his chair, not look at anyone in the face, refuse to go anywhere by himself (bathroom, another classroom), always wearing a jacket even on very hot days, not bathe, etc.  It took us an hour and a half just to get him up in the morning, out of bed.  We had to wake him up every 10 minutes with lights, pleading, noises, yanking him, etc. 

Today, he gets himself up and even showers most days.  But, he still likes to wear the jacket.  

Some really excellent info has been provided.

Someone had asked earlier about the tests that measure heavy metals.  I just to provide an example as to why a test would not be accurate, particularly the blood and/or hair test.  Many parents and mainstream doctors expect to see that in order for a child to have heavy metal poisoning, that the labs results would yield elevated numbers.  This may not be the case in many ASD children because many of they have the problem of not being able to properly eliminate the toxins from their bodies.  Basically, the heavy metals and toxins just build up, there by increasing the burden.  Heavy metals are known to interefere with so many different aspects of how the body functions.  DAN doctors or clinicians don't just look at the hardcore heavy metal results, they look at other labs such as stools and blood that may indicate there may be a problem with how the body is operating on a cellular level.

For instance, both of my children tested low for heavy metals on their blood results (which only shows recent exposure, not body burden).  Yet, the other results showed that they were deficient in glutathione which helps the body eliminate toxins, particularly heavy metals.  We did a chealtion challenge and they excreted a lot of metals.  We aren't blindingly  just picking any ole' chelating agent to pull the metals, we (like others) will do a challenge to see if the chelating agent is pulling a good quanitity of metals before we decide to continue the treatment.  If it doesn't work, then we try another.

There is another test that measures the total body burden of metals using porphyrins...specifically measuring coporphyrins.  It was originally created by a lab in France, but there are some labs that are starting to do the test in the US...however, I am unsure how accurate they are compared to the French Lab.

There was one that was mentioned at the DAN conference that was performing an equal in quality test to the French lab called Metimetrix out of Norcross, GA. is where you can get more info about DAN, heavy metals, etc.

Great post, Little Byrd!

I ordered the urinary porphyrins test from the French lab and received the kit.  My next challenge is to "catch" an early morning urine!


[QUOTE=livsparents]It's heartbreaking the death of that child in Pittsburg, but it was a mistake that caused his death.  The risks are there, but the danger is somewhat overblown...[/QUOTE]


You are absolutely right that it was a mistake caused by a doctor that did not use the correct chelating agent on the child.  He use the EDTA without Calcium versus the EDTA with Calcium that is generally used on children.  I also think that the child also had other health issues.  It was a very sad sad incident.

It's heartbreaking the death of that child in Pittsburg, but it was a mistake that caused his death.  The risks are there, but the danger is somewhat overblown...

Recently, some doctors and parents have recommended chelation therapy as a potential treatment for autism. However,there¡¯s no scientific evidence currently.
Proponents believe that autism is caused by mercury exposure, such as from childhood vaccines. Chelation therapy supposedly removes mercury from the body, which cures autism.But extensive studies have revealed no evidence of a link between mercury exposure and autism. In addition, chelation therapy is not approved as an autism treatment and can be associated with serious side effects, including liver and kidney damage that can result in death.

Just wait...there will be proof now that the government has funding to do clinical trials.  I have seen great success in my ASD kids with chelation and we are pulling a lot of metals out, not just mercury - lead, antimony, arscenic, etc.  This crap should not be in their bodies at the levels they are for if my kids did not have ASD, they are sure to develop some other health problem in the future.

This is why parents need to do their research and find reputable doctors who practice the DAN methodology...not some crackerpot.

I wanted to add that their is justification in chelation therapy in my kids because of the lab results showing elevated lead and mercury in their bodies, as well as the chelation challenges where significant amounts of metals are being pulled out.  Our insurance pays for it, as well.  We are using a product that is FDA approved for removing lead from children with lead poisoning.  Lead happens to be one of the top metals that we are removing. 

Our DAN doc won't chelate a child if there is no basis...that is crazy.  Which is why you must research.


[QUOTE=Zona Dad]AndrewsMommy:

Cardinal rule of medicine: First do no harm. If you are a family physician
board certified by the American Board of Familiy Practice and practice by
the standards put forth by the AMA and this board, I do not believe you
can justify chelation therapy in our children.

I am a Diplomat of the American Board of Internal Medicine (ie board
certified). I have seen first hand the dangers of chelation therapy in my
ICU. The case of the one child is not an isolated one. I do not
recommend chelation therapy and will not recommend it unless it
somehow obtains FDA approval. I doubt it will since it is not a new
procedure and has had plenty of time to have been proven effective.


Please understand that most 'non-traditional' therapies try to 'cure'
afflictions that are not remedied by traditional medical practice. These
'cures' are not proven, but mostlly anecdotal. It is not to say that none of
the products with such claims never make it to main stream medical
practice. There have been some including, Saw Palmetto for prostate
disease, that have been proven to be effective. However, that is one in
thousands of thousands. I generally do not post in these sites, but feel
that I must do my duty as a concerned parent and health care provider in
posting my comments.

I am not against naturopathic medicine. I as a parent of an autistic child
have gone through the same turmoil and mental torture all of you have. I
want to find a 'cure' for my child. The best 'cure' is through physical/
occupational/speech therapy at this time.

Our children with autism spectrum disorders vary in their functional
ability on a daily basis. Behaviors often attributed to autism are often the
same behaviors seen in 'neurotypical' children. We tend to be much more
critical of them in our ASD kids. These 'therapies' are often lauded as a
benefit when we see our ASD kids behave better, then blame something
else when they take a downturn even though they are on the same
medication that was supposed to have prevented such downturns.

At best, these remedies will provide a placebo effect for our children. I
admit I will definitely take a placebo effect result over none. But, not if
there is ANY risk to my child. Unfortunately, there is some risk involved
with chelation.

By the way, DAN doctors are not a certified by any legitimate autism
organization. They only have to attend a confernce or seminar for a day
or so to be on the list. Do you really want to make them our autism
expert for your child? Please look for physicians that have a board
certification in pediatric psychology or pediatric neurology. If you can't
find one in your immediate area, stop wasting money on all these other
treatments and take a 'vacation' with your child to go visit the nearest

Please note, I am not 'bashing' anyone, only trying to protect our children
from harm. Don't gamble your childs health for a cure, but rather enjoy
their gifts and cherish their way of life. I do.[/QUOTE]

I worked for many years as a chemist and I am quite familiar with EDTA.  I would not use this without the approval and supervision of a physicican.  It has the potential to poison the system, and strip out helpful as well as harmful minerals. 

Taken orally I do not think you could absorb an adequate amount of this material to effectively chelate minerals stored in the body.  It is used in intravenous treatments, but these are performed (hopefully) under a physicians supervision.  A physician should only prescribe this treatment after both they and the patient understand the risks, symptoms of poisoning to watch for, and the expected benefits outweigh the risks.

I understand the desperation of a parent with an Autistic Impaired child.  My 12 year old son Joseph is AI, and just came home from his second stay at a Psychiatric hospital today.  I have spent much money on alternative cures, and have seen little benefit from them. 

My advice is to work with a trusted healthcare provider and love your child with all your heart.  As a parent your hearts desire is to fix your child.  Somethings are just beyond are ability to fix. 





Thanks for the info, Little Byrd!

Hey, is that a picture of a sandpiper or a sanderling or a piping plover, or is it another kind of bird?  Do you know???


Honestly, I haven't a clue.  I picked it because it was a bird:)

Thanks Heidi


Dear Forker:

Well, the Vitamin C thing is vast.  There is a ton of stuff on it and you really have to read a ton of studies to get a grasp on how it works because the studies are contradicting.  Basically, Vitamin C is part of therapies that work, but used alone, it will not give you the miracles we are looking for in our children.  I remember that the studies that say it works, also used it in combination with various other rememdies, such as zinc and amino acids. 

I am finding success using Vitamin C, epsom-salt cream, fish oil, probiotics, vitamins, minerals, digestive enzymes, special diet, and ginger root.  If I had to, I would also use green tea, amino acids and milk thistle.  I have used them with great success, but wonder about long-term use.  All of the aforementioned items will assist in detox in general, including heavy metals.  It takes longer, but I would imagine its much safer, but only if done correctly. 

It is important to realize that a combination of therapies is what is working.  I am not against medical chelation, I just haven't had to do it yet.  Although, a product I used was very similar.  I find it scarey, as well as all this other stuff.  But, I just study a lot and use small amounts.  As much as it is all scarey, not having my children communicate is more scarey.  I studied, and I took the plunge on trying treatments and I don't regret anything at this time.  I would recommend starting at the website.  It is vast, but you can find all kinds of studies and on-going treatment recommendations.  I mostly used their stuff, but I only used 1/20th of the stuff they recommend at 1/4 the doses and got success.  Therefore don't just plunge into it.

A lot of their stuff is considered safe by most anyone, like Vitamin C, and epsom-salt cream.  You can also find a list of doctors that know this stuff on that website.  Near me, there is a clinic that does this protocol that actually helps you pay for stuff if you make less than ,000.00 a year.  My insurance pays for the lab work except for the deductions of course.

In their search menu, you can type in Vitamin C, chelation, etc.  Look for their current treatment consensus paper, it is written by a bunch of doctors.  Most of these doctors have children with autism, so that is what makes them different. 

I don't mean to sound so doubting, but I did diets and vitamins with my son. At first, I think I tricked myself into thinking they worked, because they were so costly and time consuming. I thought he was much more calm, but in reality he was malnurished. He just watched TV all day. Plus, these kids are so young, and I don't want to ruin their bodies. Do you have a doctor helping you? What kind of testing do you do?Question - Did you have your children tested to find out the level of metals in their system prior to this trying this treatment?  (Is there such a test?)  Also, are there side affects associated with ingesting this much Vitamin C?  I'm not knowledgable on this subject and just curious.Sarah had high lead and we did a cream to detox her..had her doc take her blood sample a few months later and it was normal.  The cream stunk like a skunk!

I started taking my now 15 year-old to a DAN doctor in Austin about a few months ago to see if they maybe could treat him so that he would not be dependent on supplements.  So far, the extensive testing has helped, but he currently has no fewer symptoms since doing what this doctor says, who is actually becoming quite well-known.  I do think it will pay off in the long run though.  I just started the B12 shots about 6 weeks ago.  I think they are helping as well.  The Doc recommended certain vitamins and fish oil and such.  I am learning a lot about Kyle.  I couldn't believe some of the testing.  Like he had no Bifidibacteria in his stomache, yet I had him on probiotics with that strain for several months.  And he had low minerals, all of them, especially calcium.  Yet his fingernail tips are white and his bones are strong.  I guess his body had difficulty getting it into his other cells and keeping the levels up in his blood.  And he had drank milk several times a day.  I have since taken him off of milk products.  He also tested allergic to the foods Autistics normally are allergice to:  milk, yeast, wheat, rye, barley.  He had other allergies as well, but those were the highest.  You need to do allergy tests to show to school officials and other professionals so they will believe you when you tell them not to give your kid wheat and milk. 

My favorite part about DAN doctors is that they really know stuff.  All Kyles prior doctors and specialists just gave me the run-around and didn't help him at all.  Its nice to talk to a doctor who understands. 

As far as Vitamin C goes, Kyle's DAN doctor recommended he take 4,000 times the RDA in a buffered form.  I really think he is probably correct.  I bought it, but I usually forget to give it to him since it is a powder that has to be mixed in juice.  Aside from that, he does get about 8 times the RDA in his other supplements.  But if you were to give such a high dose, you have to also give Vitamin E.  You can research it on the web.

High doses are attributed to lowering mercury levels, but I would rather just give 8 times the RDA and not worry about if the high dose is affecting other things.  I have patience.  It will take longer, but my kids are already doing well enough for regular school now, so I can afford to wait. 

I only had Kyle tested for heavy metals after I chelated him.  They all came back normal.  How happy I was, but I was informed that they are not very reliable.  The DAN doctor now wants to do another type of test for mercury.  Its all complicated because the tests are somewhat unreliable and kids who test normal, improve when chelated.  So its all very complicated.  I haven't done the other test yet; I am scraping up the money.  I will do the test just out of curiousity, I am not planning on doing a chelation therapy at this time. 

OK, I think I answered the questions; let me know if you have more.  God Bless you.  Start with prayer and God will lead your way. 


Just wondering what "behaviors" chelation cures.

Well, I think very few people actually get cured with chelation.  All these treatments are just so new that there is still much to be learned.  According to the Autism Research Institute, most parents feel their children benefitted from chelation.  But, its really just a part of the recommended treatment therapy.  I used a strong herbal chelation treatment on two of my children for one month.  With no other treatments, they became completely symptom-free for 3 weeks.  My 15 year-old's symptoms returned all at once, right after he ate a food with MSG in it.  My 5 year-old's symptoms started creeping back as well at the 3-week mark.  I then immediately started them on vitamins, minerals, fish oil, antioxidants, and digestive enzymes.  They still have some symptoms, and they are reliant on their current therapy to keep symptoms from worsening.  But, they are now able to do regular school; whereas, they were not before. 

As far as which symptoms are affected, it can be any and all.  The two boys I just mentioned started therapy 9 months ago when I actually learned children could get well.  I have adopted a 5 year-old girl with Aspergers, Bipolar, ADHD, speech problems, conduct disorder and ODD and just started her on the nutiritional supplements, diet, etc., but not on any strong chelation.  I just wanted to see the difference.  She has been on treatment for 6 months.  I think she will also now be able to do regular school, whereas before, she could not.  I withdrew her from Pre-K due to unbelievable behaviors, much like that of a out-of-control two-year old.  The school and her counselor said they had never seen such behaviors in a 4 year-old before.  Well, she will be in kindergarten next year and we will see then, but I think she has had a significant reduction in symptoms.  Her prior foster parents came to visit her and couldn't believe the difference.  I told them I need them as witnesses because when I tell poeple, they don't believe me.  They don't believe that nutrition can do so much.  I don't blame them, I wouldn't believe it either, if I had not seen it myself. 


Chelation made the FDA's list of top ten most fraudulent practices.

In my opinion it should no be done period.  I'd never do it to Sharlet (of course I researched it profusely when Sharlet was dx).  There are plenty of fantastic non-invasive therapies out there to try if the current techniques you are using aren't working for your child.

Chelation is simply not supported by evidence based science in any way.
I do not agree with any invasive therapies that don't have scientific studies to strongly back them up.  Parent testimonials are useless when making a decision about something as serious as chelating. 

If chelation really does work, then the studies that are being done will find the evidence to support that.  IMHO parents should wait untill then.  Their are serious flaws in the current training systems for doctors delivering these types of treatments.
Once again this is just MY opinion, and I'm not trying to cause any arguments. If you do lots of research, you can look at studies that have been done, and read plenty of articles that state there is no real evidence to support chelation.
Oh, and I am talking about the intravenous chemical kind.

edited for grammer

Great post, Little Byrd!

I ordered the urinary porphyrins test from the French lab and received the kit.  My next challenge is to "catch" an early morning urine!


Great Plains Lab just circulated a flyer recently indicating that they also now do the urinary porphyrins test.  I have not talk to my DAN about it, but I suspect that the test would be identical to the French Lab.  The best part is that it is only (french lab is worund 5-120) and it can be covered by certain health insurance, specifically BCBS PPO.

You can do the same w/ Metimetrix, but they don't file the claim on your behalf.  (I had asked them this at the DAN conference).  Plus, it can be cheaper when you file the claim vs GPL or Metimetrix filing the claim.

little byrd39227.1994212963

Thanks for the info, Little Byrd!

Hey, is that a picture of a sandpiper or a sanderling or a piping plover, or is it another kind of bird?  Do you know???

Hello everyone!
This is my FIRST time on this board!!
I would like to thank You all for creating this side , my name is Monica I live in Poland .My 9 yo Nicole is autistic( but not for long)
I belive I can add some to this discusion.
First of all , I DO belive in Bio- medical treatment for my child .To cut the long story short  I have "covered " all aspects of educational /speech /Si ?Tomatis /ABA/ just to name few treatment related to my child  condition .
I educated myself , went on to DAN conferenses , met lots of doctors etc
To this day I tried number of treatment labelled as "off" or alternative , and I can state that this made HUGE difference to my child.

Also , I belive not ONLY mercury is killing all generation but PESTICIDES!
Not many of you realise , that vaccines are also a biological  weapons!!
Look into the story of Gulf War vets and see the similarities!!!

Same tryptophan metabolites , same gut , neurological , memory problems.
Ok, back to oral chelation.
I tried DMSA , EDTA, cilantro , NAC and now I'm about to start Zeolite.

I can state , that Cilantro is wonderfull , it does not stear up thing( remember doc do not want you use things that you DO NOT need prescriptions for!!!)

Liver-aid (Hu Gan Pian)to support  detox ( liver is MOST stressed and if not working smooth can make child more sick!!)

Next week we start Zeolite- I will keep you updated..

Cilantro +water( reversed osmosis!!!) does lots of good !!

I would like to meet this orthodoxed med doc - and his poor child.
My girl is almost cured we can compare!

Dear Nikolaczek97:

Thanks for sharing.  I too, am starting chlorella and soon to start Cilantro.  I am trying it on myself first.  I always do that.  I am full of mercury and have all kinds of related symptoms.  Luckily, no mental symptoms.  Anyhow, I started Chlorella about a week ago, and I really like it so far, but one week is just not enough to go by.  But so far, it really is keeping me on my feet.  I never tried Zeolite.  I have read about it, but I guess it just sounds too weird for me to try at this time.  I have read both good and bad about it on other forums.  People use it for other illnesses too, like MS, CFS, Lupus.   Have you tried Chlorella with your Cilantro and why not stick with Cilantro if it is working?  The thing with Zeolite that scares me is:  How does the body get rid of it? 

Hello all!

I have been working with a few parents of ASD children.  The current look into oral chelation took me to look at liquid zeolites.  After I had seen a bit of the research, I found they are completely safe, unlike EDTA or DMPS.  The liquid zeolites have been proven to not take out any calcium, magnesium or any other beneficial minerals, having only an affinity for the detrimental heavy metals.  Since much of the ASD patients seem to have a connection with Thimerasol and mercury poisoning I figured that it would be worth looking into.  The preliminary results have been incredibly promising and it is even more effective (in my humble opinion) than the IV chelation because the child does not even have to know they are taking the chelating elements!   If anyone wants more information, please email me so that I can send you some more information!



Dear Seanleegardener:

I have never used zeolite because I base my use of things off of others' experiences and have found little on zeolite pertaining to personal experiences.  Can you tell me if you used it and what was your experience?  I am always looking to learn about things. Thanks

Nikola, are you utilizing powdered zeolite or liquid zeolite?  There is quite a big difference in whether the substance get into the intercellular fluid as opposed to just going into the gut and clearing out debris.  Since having studied liquid zeolite for some time now, I am quite convinced that the efficacy of highly purified liquid zeolite is magnitudes more efficient than taking the powder for purposes of heavy metal, PCB, pesticides, insecticides, larvicides, fungicides, depleted uranium, dioxin and so forth, detoxification.

Also, the process that is utilized in the purification of the zeolite liquid is very important as well as if the zeolite molecules are small enough (micronized).  If the liquid is not clean and pure you risk contamination of other elements that are not beneficial (like other heavy metals) as well as a more ineffective zeolite compound.  This is because the pores of the zeolite structures are already filled up with other things, therefore making it less efficient in what you are taking.  The second thing, about micronizaiton, is very important because it allows the zeolite to cross the blood/brain barrier and to get into the blood, lymph and so forth to clean out the deepest parts of the body.  If it is not thoroughly micronized, then you will only have the zeolites go through the Gastrointestinal tract and clean the bowels.  While not necessarily a bad thing, it is not what we are looking for when doing serious oral chelation, we want something that is going to be passing deep into the tissues and cleaning them out.

If you are not already using liquid zeolite, please send me a private message so that I can direct you to my source.

I hope this helps everyone!


Dear AndrewsMom:

Check out this website I found.  I think I am going to start the chelation protocol that he says, first chlorella and then cilantro.   I ordered the fancy chlorella it says to order; it will be in on Wednesday.  I will try it on myself first.  Since I have multiple chemical sensitivity, I am a good candidate for testing out things before I give it to my children.  I don't even give them vitamins unless I take them myself.  And believe me it has paid off.  Anyhow, this Doc obviously has some smarts. hardt%20Protocol.pdf


Oh, and by the way, did you'all here that there is a U.S. federal court case that started today concerning suing the CDC, stating the vaccines cause autism.  Can't wait to see how it goes.


The French test, measures poryphins or whatever - is that expressed as a ratio with creatine (due to fluctating concentrations of compounds in the urine, I guess these measurements are often expressed as ratios to other things that are always in the urine)?  I think I read somewhere that it was.  If so, have you tested for creatine levels to ensure that they are not low, or is there a reference range for creatine on the test itself?  I read somewhere else that low creatine is very common with our kids (my girls actually had slightly elevated creatine levels, which is why I looked into creatine in the first place, but I digress), and if a kid has low creatine, and the test uses a creatine poryphin (sp?) ratio to determine elevation of poryphin (sp?), couldn't what looks like an elevated poryphin level just be a lower than normal creatine level?  I'd be interested to see the output from the report.

Do you think that the report will clearly state when an elevated poryphin count could be skewed by an abnormally level of creatine?  I ask, because I note that many parents are doing these tests on their own.  I expect that a doctor would know about the ways these things are measured, but perhaps not a parent, so I would hope that the tests are designed such that they could be interpreted by parents.

Also, has it been proven that an elevated poryphin count neccessarily means mercury?  Could there not be a false positive, here?


Welcome, chemist!  I'm a family doc.  Chelation makes me a bit nervous too, but if my son tests positive for heavy metals, then I'll have to do something.

Out of curiosity, do you know of any physicians in the USA who are willing to work with parents who want to chelate their children for heavy metal poisoning?  I know that DAN! doctors do, some alternative clinics do, and the occasional pioneer doc does, but in the latter case, he/she is both highly praised and severely criticized by the different sides of the fence.


AndrewsMommy can give you are more scientific answer, but I will respond from what I learned.  Yes, the creatine level does impact the readings, but the lab adjusts the level based on the childs creatinine.  Something to also note, based on Dr. Rossignol's paper on this in early January (Autism One Radio) is that the creatinine levels in females fluctuate throughout the day and he indicated that the best method to get a reading is to collect the urine for a 24hr period. 

The average level is around 1000 (give or take 200 to 300).  But keep in mind that the test is used as (1) method to help parents and the doctor to determine if they should chelate [the info is used in conjunction with other labs so the decision to chelate is not soley based on the french lab) and (2) method to monitor the amount of metals left in the body after doing rounds of chelation.  Docs also use urine toxic test as another test to be used in conjunction with the porphyrins test.

Anyway, Andrewmommy can explain it better...just wanted to provide you w/ some info to think about.





The French test, measures poryphins or whatever - is that expressed as a ratio with creatine (due to fluctating concentrations of compounds in the urine, I guess these measurements are often expressed as ratios to other things that are always in the urine)?  I think I read somewhere that it was.  If so, have you tested for creatine levels to ensure that they are not low, or is there a reference range for creatine on the test itself?  I read somewhere else that low creatine is very common with our kids (my girls actually had slightly elevated creatine levels, which is why I looked into creatine in the first place, but I digress), and if a kid has low creatine, and the test uses a creatine poryphin (sp?) ratio to determine elevation of poryphin (sp?), couldn't what looks like an elevated poryphin level just be a lower than normal creatine level?  I'd be interested to see the output from the report.

Do you think that the report will clearly state when an elevated poryphin count could be skewed by an abnormally level of creatine?  I ask, because I note that many parents are doing these tests on their own.  I expect that a doctor would know about the ways these things are measured, but perhaps not a parent, so I would hope that the tests are designed such that they could be interpreted by parents.

Also, has it been proven that an elevated poryphin count neccessarily means mercury?  Could there not be a false positive, here?


I am interested in the idea of zeolite as we decide on the next step for chelation of our son. However, my doctor feels that if it works, it is great but it only works for about 5% of ASD people who use it. Have you any comment on that?

We are using MT promotor at the moment and about to do the French Porphyrin test before deciding which step next. I am reluctant to use DMSA due to side effects on gut, am wondering about footsies? I am reluctant to shell out lots more money. it is costing a small fortune in supplements weekly as it is- particularly as I am outside the US so have to add postage to it all and insurance doesn't cover such things in our country so I want to try and do the 'right' chelation approach for Riley next.

Thanks for any opinions


Well, there is a bit of interest when it comes to differentiating chelation therapies and what they do to what kinds of heavy metals.  My experience has been that the majority of those who have some form of ASD brought about by mercury as the prime constituent (typically from laced thimerasol) have a much higher rate of positive reaction because the affinity liquid zeolite has for that specific metal is much higher than for the other ones.  Zeolite works hierarchically in that it will bind and attach with certain elements before it will go to others.  A prime example will be that it attaches to mercury before it attaches to lead and it will attach to depleted uranium (DU) before it attaches to arsenic.  It is still being fully understood.

One interesting piece of info I came across is that liquid zeolite does not have an affinity for physiologically cruicial minerals/metals like calcium, magnesium, boron, silicon/silica, and so forth.  It does not work like traditional chelation therapies like EDTA and DMPS in that it will take out both good and bad minerals.  It only works on the positively charged, heavy metals like lead, cadmium, arsenic, DU, mercury and so forth.  I have seen plenty of labs at this point to convince me that it is totally safe for basically anyone, not just adults or children, to be taking.  I am currently on it myself and have been for about 4 months now.  I have been working with a local teacher who heads the ASD division at the middle school.  She works with the parents (a semi-difficult but rewarding task) in educating them about the possibility of reversal, not just management, of ASD.  From what she has been telling me, the results are undeniable. 

As far as the small fortune you are spending, maybe we can talk on the phone.  I have been teaching nutrition for 8 years and I may be able to help you narrow it down to a more critical group of constituents.  Private message me if you are interested.  Also, the liquid zeolite chelation product I am taking is actually starting to be distributed in the UK.  I believe it will be a matter of a few months.  If you are interested I may be able to help you out prior to that.  Like I said, just PM me and lets see where that goes :)

Blessings be upon you and your family


I am the person about the abstract.  The answer was not to show how, nor teach, it was only to give her a glimpse of information from which she can use to further study on her own.  Most of the real studying is from methods that doctors and parents have said that worked.  Most people don't have the backgrounds to read research correctly, nor do most professionals.  Well, maybe the professionally trained could if they took the time.  The ones I went to school with and worked with, did not.  I was the only one to question them, and they would tell me, "Who cares, we don't have the time to think about it."  For the parents here, reading the abstract gives them the idea of the possibility that some of the how-to websites they read may have validity.  

I am so happy that you have a research background and come here for ideas on how to help our kids.  I will be happy to give you some ideas on areas to do research.  There are also many good websites on different methods that are working for our children.  I do have theories to your questions - not originated by me.  For one, I have read that the mercury is already in the mother from her vaccinations, and passed on to the fetus, which would explain the non-decrease in autism, if it is actually true.  For two, I read the famous Danish study that purportedly found an increase in Autism aftere thimerosal was removed.  Well, I also looked up the authors.  All of the authors I could find information on, which was most of them, had a position pertaining to making sure children receive their vaccines.  There are also many criticisms to that study I found quickly by googling.  But, aside from that, the DAN website said that parents report more success from chelation than any other treatment on their website.  I have not yet formally chelated my kids, but I do believe their is a need for it, either formally, or getting the body well enough to do it, itself.  Now, what I have found amongst the professionals, is hypotheses of: either the virsuses destroy ones ability to detox, or the heavy metals destroy ones abililty to fight the viruses.  But most thereapies that are working, have to do with detoxing, and getting the body healthy enough to fight the viruses.  The viruses are either the known injected ones (the ones we are suppose to kill and develop immunity against, but don't) or the unknown ones, (stealth viruses from contaminated monkey tissues used in making the vaccines).  In addition, many say that the vaccines cause one to be allergic to self, due to the measles protein markers being similar to wheat protein markers, and myelination.  Basicallly, I am just giving you ideas here.  I obviously don't have the answers either.  I believe there is probably many factors that contribute (overly processed food, all those radio waves from electromagnetic fields, kids not playing much outside any more -- less sun, chemicals, pesticides, more vaccines, etc.)  For me and my family, I believe the main culprits were vaccines and thimerosal.  I unknowingly doused myself with tons of thimerosal from 13 almagams, contact lens solution, preparation H, vaccines (of course), and I can't remember what else at the moment.  But when I trace back my health and symptoms, I can trace it to those items.  I had other symptoms as well that pertain to mercury toxicity:  metal taste in mouth, swollen, bleeding gums, multiple chemical sensitivity, etc.  The most important is that I have been sick ever since I received a vaccination shot at the age of 15.  Well, that is what I have read and found.  Please help our children. 

Oh, and as far as the Vitamin C thing goes.  We take it here, and no one has had any new cavities yet.  As a matter of fact, it keeps our teeth from develping plaque.  We don't use flouride either, and still no cavities.  Well, we do have cavities, we just haven't had any new ones in the last year, since we started taking Vitamin C and started using non-fluoride toothpaste.  Maybe some have enough Vitamin C and some don't.  We don't here. 

Allegra, I am not trying to stir the pot here. But why would you de-worm that beautiful daughter of yours, yet you wouldn't chelate her if her tests showed she had elevated levels of toxins?

 As a labrador retriever breeder who raised two daughters, and worked for a veterinarian for 3 years, I can tell you that the vast majority of children do not have worms. If Sharlet had tape worm, you would see little grains of rice like worms in her stool repeatedly. This makes no sense at all to me that you would consider that but not metals.



GrammaSusie !!
I understand your point , but some  people do not belive in helping incurable.
They are great belivers of God and they missin( this may- not be a sytuation with
allegra) .

Ok,when  people are you ready to see some "seeds", this is a recepie :
buy whole spice cloves - blend it in coffe grander , take gelatin capsules and feel it up ( about 3-5) or you can just  chew whole( tastes bad!!!)

Watch your feses next day!!!
Cloves kill ONLY the eggs!!  That is so simple that everyone can do - and see .

To kill all stages ( eggs , larvas , worms )  you need more .
But this simple thing can change your view on worms .


I only use original distribiutiors .
I wanted  my child to be a part of study , but it takes too long- I will go on my own.
Also I liked what Heide stated about Vit.C mega doses , they always worked with my kid .
Now , In looking for the best sourse on non- acidic VitC in Europe
 Heidi- do You make Epsom salt cream yourself or  buy from ex Kirkman?

I buy from Kirkman because I don't want to worry about any chemical reaction the epsom salt might have if I were to make it myself.  It could possibley mix with atoms in whatever base I were to choose and become a different compound.  It might be a little expensive to purchase, but it lasts a long time.  I just give 6 members of my family one scoup a day, and it lasts 3 weeks.  Thus, if you were to only give it to two members and gave one scoup a day, I am sure it would last a long time, thus ending up not costing much. 

As far as Vitamin C goes, Thorne Research sells a bufferred Vitamin C that is suppose to be all that.  I bought the powder but I have been having difficulty using it because it has to be mixed in juice and it makes the juice taste funny.  I think becaue it makes the juice taste alkaline which is not quite what we are used to when we drink juice.  I am thinking about either buying a flavored powder or the pills.   I need to find out what other ways they sell it.  Anyhow, this buffered formula is suppose to make the stomach more alkaline (which will help fix microflora problems) and it also makes the stomach lining absorb the vitamin C just in case the individual has difficulty absorbing Vitamin C. 


I have used it and have found quite an immense difference in the 5 months that I have been taking it.  My before picture is that of not being able to remember anything and constantly loosing my place in a conversation or on a page of a book.  Since taking it, my memory has become much more pronounced and has become more capable of recalling facts and figures.  I believe this to be because of the chelation of the mercury out of my body due to dental amalgam fillings I had a while ago.

I have shared the zeolites with quite a few people now and almost all of them have experienced major results from taking them over the course of 3 to 6 months.  I would be happy to send you a compiled list of testimonials that I have put together!

Please private message me with your email so I can send you some more information!


[QUOTE=Heidi N]

Dear Seanleegardener:

I have never used zeolite because I base my use of things off of others' experiences and have found little on zeolite pertaining to personal experiences.  Can you tell me if you used it and what was your experience?  I am always looking to learn about things. Thanks

[/QUOTE]Hello! Heidi!!
Thank you for your letter ! Thanks Buddy, too for the links!!!
I use Cilantro drops into the revesed osmosis water with -out  chlorella .Some how iodine in it dis- agrees with my girl.
For the  past 7 years we had problems with re-mineralisation after chelation !!!
Chelation itself was good( apart from candida streare-ups_)but just adding cynk was making my child go BUZZUKIE!!!
She would stimm like mad!!( mostly shaking hand- like trying to shake off the slime, also she will wet herself during the day , masturbate( on softy toys and big ball)and
high pich voices .

Cilantro help with -out all this!!! I give her cilantro 5 drops in glass filtrated water 4 x a day plus extra water ,soups , juices etc .So she is drinking about 2 l a day.
To help detox liver I give Liver-aid--which stops glutamic -pyruvic transaminase
so toxins are not getting more toxic.
This is also helping her gut.
To re-mineralise I only use SKIN JELL  (Bisholin) it is used to absorb with the skin.
No- ORAL minerals( they are non-organic and are only 5-10 % absorbant anyway!!!)
Zeolite is like Bentonite- but clear-out from all they absorbed from atmosphere .
I can not comment on this - as I will start nextweek( I will buy it from UK)

I would strongly urge that anyone considering treating a liver issue, should get liver function tests first, and chelating should get proof of high levels of metals.

I believe that treating something that doesn't actually exist in a child is just as damaging as not treating something that does.

Not all kids wit autism have other medical problems, some are otherwise healthy.  I worry about these kids getting all sorts of treatments that they don't need.

edited for spelling
Allegra39260.3101967593Heidi! One more thing.
Zeolite pulls only BAD metals ( they are attracted to negative charged Zeolite ) but not all GOOD ( like CA, Fe ,Zn Mg , etc)
so you just  do not add minerals to your child .Because I always have troubles to measure how much GOOD is going with BAD ( sometimes I thought  that  TD-DMPS is pulling just the cynk I used 24 hours before) that this time I will try- Zeolite - not to worry about adding anything back.

Just to be on the safe side I will do base cynk/magnezium serum levels in  her blood before zeolite - to check if she is not under .
Lupus , MS ,GWS etc are all metal/pesticides related diseases .

Do the parasite cleanse as well!!!!

In Poland we have some clinics that do all BICOM2000 bioresonanse test on heavy metals , toxins , paracites .
It looks like , ALL autistic children have tapeworms ( from dogs!!!) to clear that we use Praziquantel ( or Metronidazolum, Vermox) and all kinds of clostridium .
Do the cleanse first.
I do not  do diet any more ( she was on this for 4 years - but we challenged gluten/casein /sugar )

Hello Allegra!!
Where in Austrtalia do You live ??
I lived in Sydney and had  my child going  to doctor Undrewood.

Hi nikola,

I live in Hobart,  I am interested in what you said about "ALL" autistic kids having Tape worms from dogs, Sharlet has never had any contact at all with dogs in her life, except seeing them in a park, but after her dx.  Can these come from cats?
Well, I am not judging you, you obviously want the best for your child and are doing what you think is right for your child as we all are.  I am happy for you that you are having positive results.

But I will not be risking anything to try and cure Sharlet because her health is not something I would risk in the hope of some improvement.  Many "treatments" can be damaging to a child and in some cases very dangerous.

I am proud of Sharlet, she is beautiful and autistic, and I wouldn't change her.
Thats just my opinion, I'm not trying to say that what you are doing is wrong for your child.
Yes Allegra!!!
Cats have the same tapeworms ( humans get this from: playing in the sand , eating dirt, from natural farms where organic fertiliseres are using animal feses , from dirty hands , inherited from parents , eating wild animals ( rubbits etc) fish( some forms of tapeworms are from fish- cat sourse )
look into curezone/parasites

Belive me - after giving Parex ( Monotech) from Health Food Shop to my children all eggs ( like cucumber seeds) come out!!!

Please buy Hulda Clark   book "Cure for all diseases" and read about autism .
This book was  wri
tten in 1994  , time when ONEONE knew autism- metal- parasite- pesticide relation .

I belive Gordon , Shatock ,McCandles - they all learned from Hulda .

To some this parasite - toxin - connection may sounds bit crazy- but in Poland we have a group of  many Mums - that write they stories and some  kids are cured NOW!

Bicom2000 is a machine - some naturophatics have it- is non-invasive and in just 1 hour you can tell what is going on.
Of course orthodox med docs do not belive-- until they themself get sick .
In Sydney my very best friend has pharmacy( Neutons Pharmacy) on York st , he is seeing ALL politicians , doctors etc buyis hydrocolons , Parex and all natural herbs!! They prescribe the DRUGS to they p