When is a regular class better ?? | Autism PDD

oh liam learns from peers, tha is a big part of my issue with the language delayed class! We had an iep this am, and didnt discuss placement really (we did at the last one, but will meet in about a month to discuss again).

I had them redo some testing, and give him an artic test, and as I predicted, his artic was terrible. He did the DAYC (dev assesment of young children), and she said that his primary issue is language, and compliance is a minor issue, but that the difference in attentiveness between this year and last year is amazing to her. He scored within normal range for adaptive and cognitive on this. His motor skills were close to normal, but he has some gross motor issues which dropped his score a bit (his tone is borderline). His social was also within just a few points of normal range. His language still puts him about a yr behind peers.

Oh he is classified DD btw. I don't have a formal diagnosis for him-- we haven't been that route. He doesn't really have sensory issues either, other than he is a picky eater (dh is too-- sooooo bad).

more later, but thanks for all of your input! the spec ed teacher said that they have too many students and are trying to get another lang delayed class opened up, so I may talk to her and see who i would have t opush with to get more of an inclusion situation
My son is rated autistic by the school board and his iep. However, ped neuro dev doc adv that he is communicative disordered. They were going to place Daniel in an autistic classroom until they read the recommendations of the doc. They did not change his rating from autistic however, they put him in a dd class instead of autistic. The doc's rationale was that if we put him in an autistic class, he would learn to be autistic. I don't know enough about the autistic class to know if I feel this could be true or not, but Daniel has been in a dd prek for a year now. And I love it, I love his teacher, and he is doing very well and loves school. His IEP advises about things like not rewinding anything in class because of sensatory issues and about keeping the computer out of his eyesight in order to keep him focused or else he starts handflapping and stimming. He also gets language therapay and ot and the language teacher is a speech therapist as well and works on speech with Daniel even though his IEP does not mandate. And they are wonderful about following his IEP. I am happy with the decision that was made amongst the school board the doc and myself. But, I guess it's one of those things that you just have to try and see. I was very nervous about it becuase of all of his autistic features though.We had Payne in inclusive pre-k classes and he was doing great. We (his teacher/staff and us) decided to try him in mainstream kind. w/ supports - this lasted a month and he had had enough. We had it written in his IEP that if mainstream didn't work we would go back to inclus. kind. He has been doing better since...he still gets pulled out for some mainstream things and therapies, but mostly in his special class.

Sarah is mainstreamed without an aide and doing well. We put in IEP to have visuals promts and verbal prompts as needed to do tasks and to be with teacher close at all times. She is doing well although I am wish I had more day to day communication with her teacher and more peer/buddy help for social skills because even at kindy age the kids figure out quickly she is special..they like her but don't understand why she doesn't want to play when they asked her too..after awhile they stop asking:( I can't make the teacher give her the sweetest child in child to hold her hand and help her and love her unconditionally

The truth is, putting your son with the BEST TEACHER is often the best tactic. Not all autistic kids LEARN from being with peers, even higher functioning ones. So that's why the "it depends" answer is the best. No child is supposed to be placed based on classification, on based on NEEDS.

I would say that keeping your child with typically developing peers is the best route. YOu can include him with supports from the very beginning and plan to reevaluate the placement after the first report card period. Ask NOW to visit the class he would be placed in. Speak with the teacher. See what is expected of the kids (but remember that this is NOT Sept. and the kids were more immature at the beginning of the year). You may also want to consider having him be in the typical class for a half the day and in a more specialized class for the other half. If it were me, given what you've said about your son, I'd have him fulltime in typical K and only consider half and half if that didn't work out. There are 3 "language delayed" ie autism classes in our district. The kids spend very little time with typical peers-- mostly lunch and sometimes PE. Liam is high functioning-- language delayed, but mostly pragmatics issues, adaptive behavior and most other skills are at least on target. His main issues are related to attention. He is in constant motion, lol. Generally a very sweet kid, no behavior issues at all. I have requested a log be filled out, and it takes verbal prompting to keep him on task, but no physical. Rarely has meltdowns-- maybe 1 a week, and they are small and short-- mostly whining.

His current sp ed teacher thinks that the language delayed class would be proper placement for him for kindy, and I am not sure that I agree with her. I feel like also that they may be pushing this instead of offering a part time aide. Currently the class he is in is an inclusive class (10nt, 5 DD'd), with one extra aide (it is a headstart class, which has 2 teachers typically), and then the sp ed teacher floats back and forth between his class and the other class. He is pulled out to work with her in a small group for an hr a day (30 min on the day he has individual speech) .
There is not an inclusive kindy class in the tricounty area btw. Liam has also only been in school and recieved therapy for just this school year, and his progress has been amazing. He couldn't sit still and complete a task at all at the beginning of the yr, and at this point he can sit for the required length of time and complete the task.

I haven't been in to obseve the language delayed class yet-- I plan to this week, but I am just trying to see where she is coming from with this placement.

thanks for your thoughts!
heather

Heather, Is kindergarten full day or half day in your district? When Eric was in kindergarten, it was Monday thru Friday for half days. He attended his special ed class in the mornings, then was mainstreamed into a regular kindergarten class in the afternoons. He had lunch in the cafeteria with his special ed teacher who worked on his food issues (typical picky eater). He was pulled out of the classroom twice a week for speech therapy. In the regular kindergarten class, there was a teacher's aide full-time who assisted Eric and one other special needs child. Academically, Eric was way ahead of the other kindergarteners due to all the special ed. classes he had since age 3 in the public school system, but he had behavioral problems and significant speech delay. I think there are definite benefits to having so many NT peers around our ASD kids at a young age. Young NT kids are very accepting of ASD kids, in general.

It is fulltime. Ideally I see how a teacher who specializes in Autism could be helpful, instead of a general sp ed teacher, I jsut think that most of his day should be spent in reg ed, with pullout to sp ed, not vice versa. I think if the teacher had an aide (not even Liam specifically having an aide) that it would probably be enough to help him function in the classroom.

My son has always been in a mainstream class. His first year of school, we didn't even know he had autism (the evaluation process had just begun), but the district saw that he needed an assistant. He had some extra lessons and an assistant.

In the next two grades, he got even more special lessons and assistance, because his mainstream classmates were outpacing him. But that first year a mainstream classroom worked well.

We had similar issues with our older [PDD/NOS] son, although what they recommended (and got) was a "non-catagorical special day class" for preschool and K. The non-cat SDC is anyone with a diagnosis, and with an age spread of K to 2nd grade. It seemed a poor choice since our son began to model the behaviors of the emotionally disturbed older kids. Your preschool class seems much better than that. Roughly halfway through the school year in K my son's language delays were "corrected" and he was considered to no longer qualify.

Anyways, before they terminated services, we had tried arguing until blue in the face, for 2 years, for a less restrictive placement with an aide, similar to what you have now. We eventually placed him into a inclusive preschool/kindergarten at our own expense in parallel to the SD services. So when the SD special ed services were terminated, we crossed our fingers and luckily with a lot of help from the teacher and the rest of the class things worked out. So my guess is that fighting directly over placement probably will get you nowhere. Wright's Law, in FETA, suggests that the SD may decide that you are trying the tell the SD how to do its job and they will want to put you in your place, and will never let you "win." Wright's Law recommends that you don't even start down that path.

We are now fighting this same battle with son #2 [autism diagnosis], with the same crowd. In the IEP meetings we only talk about placement, not goals, and always loose. We are still placing at our expense.

My suggestion would be to try an end run around the placement issue. In the IEP meeting start by discussing present levels of performance. Then start with goals, and don't mention placement. The long term goal probably ought to be socialization sufficient to allow inclusion w/o support in a few years. The one year goal would them naturally be a step closer to that level of socialization than the present level of performance, which in your case is sufficient to allow inclusion with an aide. The fully exclusive setting would then be a step backwards since a lower level of socialization is required. I imagine that you will have to lead them down this part since they already know what you want and probably have seen this sort if thing before. This will require diplomacy at a level I cannot master. An advocate might be helpful.

They probably will argue that an aide is more restrictive than the class. At least my SD has for son #2. And my SD might be right, considering what they can afford and what they expect the aides to do (e.g., the aides are expected to NOT help out with the class when fading support. They do nothing until their charge needs support. This causes "learned helplessness" since its clear to the kid that to avoid a task all he has to do is act up. When I mentioned that we were looking for an aide who would fade support by working with the other kids so it was not obvious, I got an earful about how special ed was NOT going to pay for a general aide.) And the ads I have seen my SD place for aides do NOT require any prior experience or training. The SD will do training. So, before you go for an aide from the SD it would be wise to see what you'll get. You might not want it. I have seen some very good private aides, and would not hesitate hiring them for my son. This is definitely a place where "Your mileage may vary."

On the other hand, I would definitely look at the class, too. If it were me, I'd go to observe the class (and the aide too, if you can do that) with some way of making notes on the spot. They probably will object to you using a recorder of some kind in the class, but maybe you can use a voice recorder outside just after observing to record your thoughts while they are fresh.

From a legal standpoint I believe that full inclusion with supports and aids is supposed to be considered first and if rejected, the reasons should spelled out as part of the prior written notice, particularly if this was your suggestion. In my IEPs this has *never* happened, and so if yours goes like mine you probably will have to write up why they rejected your suggestion and attach it to the IEP has a parential attachment.

Incidentally, I believe that inclusion with NT peers is how higher functioning ASD kids will learn how their NT peers interact and socialize. If the ASD kids are off in a class by themselves, they will only see ASD behavior and never learn NT socialization. When in the SDC my elder son was taught things by the emotionally disturbed elder kids (possibly they were amusing themselves by doing so) that we are still trying to undo a year and a half later. When my two sons are together, they can start stimming off of each other, and things go to pot faster that I can say "ASD". I suppose that this is partially a good thing since they are interacting with each other, but getting the two of them with NT kids will be the only way to mainstream the younger one, and to keep the older one mainstreamed.

Best of luck, it will be a tough choice. Get all the info you can.
Dad2Luke&Alan39146.0375462963

I enjoyed reading this topic. We are trying to decide if we will mainstream our daughter in the fall with an aide or go pre-K reg classroom much like K but at a slower pace, or in a class just for autistic children.

She will not be 5 till may so making her go pre K another year will not hur her then on to K the next year at 6. Then again once we get a diagnosis we will know if we need to proceed with autistic teacher..but my concern also is..in mainstream she can learn social skill and interaction..she has the skill set to go to K in the fall.