.
Is he 2 1/2? That's pretty young. If the standard approaches didn't help (and I don't think a lot of language is required to get the point, so I doubt it's language that's preventing him from getting it)), my advice would be to just carry on, and try again in another six months, or sooner if he starts showing clear signs of readiness. None of my kids trained until about three (the girls, closer to three and a half), but once THEY were ready, it went really fast, and was almost 'automatic'.
Are the signs different than NT kids or the same?I believe tzoya posted something about this on another thread suggesting that if a child is non verbal then that child is more than likely not ready to potty train, that is for both NT and autistic kids. Please if someone remembers better please chime in!
I believe a 3yr old non-verbal child with autism is too young to be successful at potty training and it could actually do more harm than good. Many will start to withhold the bm and get encopresis (impacted with leakage-gross but true) as our son with aspergers had it and so when our younger son with autism was potty training age we waited longer and it worked better. I have to tell you that he was age 5 before he could wear underwear but it was not horrible and he was really ready at that age.
Merry
It's much more likely that she won't poo on the floor but hold it in and not go at all. That's a much worse fear. My son's poo want NOT formed when he trained. It was loose and he went at least twice a day. Not having a diaper meant he held it in longer and that gave it time to form. He didn't really resist pooping that much, so we didn't end up with constipation, but we only seriously started toilet training at 4.5. We stopped a few months later when he would even PEE at all unless his diaper was on. His record is not peeing for 17 hours! This was causing him to be miserable and developm tantrumming, so we just stopped. I started again in May, when he was past his 5th birthday and it was warm enough out that I could keep him outside. Turned out that as soon as I completely threw the diapers out of the house and made up my mind ot let him do whatever he wanted and just clean up after him, he trained completely over the first weekend. Of course, he was totally ready by then.
For the mom who is currently trying to train a 2.5 yo ASD child. IMHO, give it up. This is like trying to train a 10 month old NT child. DEVELOPMENTALLY, ASD kids are simply not ready until much older. Some ASD girls are trained on the early side, but I know of none who were trained before 3. Boys tend to train later, just as NT boys train later than NT, on average.
In my experience, they were the same, and standard potty training approaches worked (just a little later than with my non-ASD son). All kids are different, of course - but that was my experience!
Fred, I did the sink or swim with my daughter. I'm thinking of doing the every hour thing, until he has a few successful "pee pee in the potty's" so at least we can see if he can make the connection with the "gotta go" feeling. Once I feel good about that I'm with you on the sink or swim. Though that method works much better in the warm weather with a fenced in yard. We are in the NE and it's pretty cold right now so I guess all accidents will occur inside
My NT daughter trained very early because she wanted to "be like mommy." She was a little nervous though to do #2 in the potty. So if she did, I would call my husband at work and tell "the wiggles" that Kayley went poopy on the potty. Then my husband would talk to her and she would ask for each wiggle, the captain, wags everyone and he would sing and tell her how proud he was. Many a time I would call and he would say, "Jen, I can't _________is in the office." And I would say, "OK, sorry Gregg, Kayley's waiting," and hand the phone to her. My husband could not have been happier when "poopy" was no longer a big deal. There were many at his job that had some really good laughs at his expense
At this point, it just might be a motivational thing - he might know that's where he's supposed to go, but just doesn't see the point (it's easier to just do it in the pullups!).
I'm sure you're rewarding all of the successes on the potty. That was helpful with us - they learned that going on the potty netted them some sort of reward, so it provided motivation.
Second, and this was the clincher, when we believed they were ready, we simply did the 'sink or swim' method - just put them in panties. They had some accidents in the beginning, of course, but quickly learned to get to the potty to avoid the discomfort assocaited with 'accidents'.
The latter method assumes that the child has enough 'awareness' to know that they have to go and can control the urge, at least for a small amount of time.
We are getting ready to train Aidan as he has decided he's not to into his diaper anymore and when he can sneak a private moment he whips it off. We are going with the, putting him on the toilet every hour approach. We have stocked the bathroom with some of his favorite books to read while we're in there and we plan to supply lots of water. We also got him the Once Upon a Potty video which he loves and we sing the catchy little tune from the video while he's on the potty. I'll let you know how it goes. Good luck!
Jen
I wouldn't begin to potty train at that age unless you KNOW he has some understanding of what potty and knowing the "urge" to go..you are going to be crazy with frustration trying. I have heard of autistics kids learning at 3 that are very verbal and high functioning but not at that age. Maybe let him watch videos about it casually and letting him get used to the concept..a good one with real kids and catchy songs is "I GOTTA GO!" Sarah loved it! We started seriously training her at 3.5 years old and it took a year to fully potty her..a memory I hate to revisit. We did potty picture schedules every 30 minutes, potty sticker charts, reward systems using everything from actually having a tv in the bathroom with her favorite video to a big spoon of choc. frosting or ice cream cone (had to be major reinforcers for her!) or taking her to the park, petstore, toystore..
Good luck!
Shelley
Yes, Jen, that's the sort of thing that worked for us (minus the putting them on the potty every hour). We primed them with potty trianing videos and stories, had a potty around and showed them how to use it - that sort of thing. Once we thought that they were ready, we basically put them in panties and just let 'em sink or swim :)
Shelley - my girls loved the "I gotta go!" video, too!
Well- I thought he might be ready from some signs he was showing- and (please dont judge me) he has actually gone poo (hee) on the potty seat plenty. When we know he has to go- We put him on it. He understands why he is there and does his thing. I thought once he starts talking we would have this sealed up....however he has not started talking.
He shows the same kind of NT signs he is ready. Lately when I ask him (knowing that he has to go) he gives me a sheepish grin....so I guess we are on our way- just wish I knew how to get him to tell me himself.
If he is showing readiness then it is time:) Looking back if I could have done things a little different I would of been more lax and not so pushy about it...she hated demands and having us tell her every 30 to sit on potty -reward or not..she still had issues going. When we gave up and let her "sink or swim" as Fred stated and I decided ok if she goes..she goes... in potty or not..she will have to deal with it as well as me...as I knew she "knew" what to do and how but she had major control issues. Lucky for us she hated to be dirty so she never had a full blown accident..a few drops here and there on her way running to go though:)
We also waited till her pull up was dry all night consistently as this told us she had some bladder control.
I just wanted to say a little about fears. Our son was extremely fearful of the bathroom and anything to do with it. It was a long process of years before he would take a bath in there (still will not take a shower) and he wasn't potty trained until age 5.3 years. He still wears a pull-up to bed but hasn't had a accident during the day since age 7. They all go at THEIR OWN pace and forcing it won't help at all. Our OT said sometimes it is the auditory sensitivities in some kids with autism that makes the bathroom such an area of fear, what with all the sounds bouncing off the walls....... Be patient, it will happen and your son will be trained eventually.Sharlet is 3 and is not really showing any signs of readiness to begin toilet training. She sometimes shows facial expressions at the last moment/during the poo, but I'd never make it to get her nappy off. She runs around with her nappy off a lot but she just wee's on the floor, she doesn't show any signs that she knows it's going to happen. She might stop what she's doing while the wee is coming out but thats about it.My ears are ringing!!! LOL!
My son developed severe encopresis to the point that he now has megacolon. His overwhelming fear of the potty (only for #2, pee is ok), is quite upsetting. His fear is extreme, and it is going to take years, unfortunately, for him to recover. He is now under the care of a GI and is on laxative therapy.
From about 7 or 8 pm each night, I transition from "mommy" to "mommy-nurse". My routine is that, I lay a sleeping bag on the couch for him, and he falls asleep. After he falls asleep, I must stay up, no matter how tired I am, for a minimum of 2 hours until his body finally relaxes enough when he lets go. Sometimes the letting go requires 2 to 3 full clothing changes and baths over the course of 2 hours.
I manage to stay completely calm, talk him through it, as of course it is very upsetting to him to be woken up, undressed and bathed when he is completely asleep. Although I never go out at night anyway, this means that I can never go out, at least probably not for several months or possibly years. I can't imagine anyone that isn't his mommy, or a nurse, could be able to handle it in a way that wouldn't make him even more upset.
Hi NYMommy- I tried to find your previous posts and read some of them---Please clarify, so, "pushing" the potty training directly led to your child holding it? Just trying to heed the warnings of others who have been there already.
I am so discouraged this morning -bawling really- that my son could be in diapers until he is six. Not getting any good eye contact this morning. Feeling pretty horrible.
I meantioned NYMommy only because of what she's going through and the knowledge that trying to potty train to early can backfire, but I'm not suggesting that's what led to NYMommy;s troubles.
Just wanted to clarify.
To tell you the truth, I'm not really sure what happened in my guys case. He was resistant to going #2 in the beginning of training, and he also had not yet been dx'd. I had him fully #1 trained in 2/2006, and at around 4/2006, he was going #2 pretty well in the potty.
His father (my ex) lives in another state, and our son went with him for summer break. I have no idea what happened over the summer break, as unfortunately my ex and I do not have a good relationship and cannot communicate without arguing, but he came home extremely fearful of the potty. I am talking EXTREMELY scared. It was also at this point that other severe regressions were noted, and I became very concerned, and started the evaluation process. He had some minor developmental delays and speech delays throughout his life thusfar, but this was very obvious.
I do not know what may have happened over the summer, but the psychologist that I spoke with, along with my middle son's therapist, believes that he may have been pushed to sit on the potty during that time, or perhaps was punished for having an accident.
The point is, he more than likely was just not ready to go. Being ignorant of his autism at that time, I just thought everything would be fine, and that he would "get over" his fear eventually, but he didn't.
If your child isn't fearful, and is willing to get on there and go for it, I'd say go ahead and give it a try. But, if he isn't, then don't sweat it and take your time with it. It will happen, but on his time, not anyone elses.
Cin - hang in! He IS showing some good signs of readiness - all anyone is encouraging you to do is to let him set the pace because pushing too hard can backfire. And no one's suggesting that you're pushing, either. I think NYMommy's recent exeperience is just fresh in everyone's mind and so folks are more likely to urge 'holding off' at this point. My girls are autistic and both were fully trained (night and day) by 3.5. The other little autistic boy in their DD pre-school is also potty trained (he's some where between 4-5, I think). It can happen, and it sounds like your child is taking the first steps by showing intereting and recognition! Just keep it positive and fun, keep up the rewards and keep down the pressure, and things will happen in their own time.He is not ready.
My experience is that my son has gone on the potty #2 plenty of times (started putting him on the pot when I could see he was about to do it in the tub) and he giggles madly when you say "poo" - He is not afraid at all of the toilet. He seems to know what he is doing on the potty- he focuses on it. I clap for him when he does it and he LOVES to be praised esp with clapping.
I have even had times when I have asked him if he needs to go, we walk together to the bathroom and he waits to do it once he is on his potty seat. He does not have any runny #2s unless he is sick.
I don't even feel like I have been pushing him; just trying to get him to correlate the poo with the potty. (I started this before I even knew he was PDD and SPD because he seemed to get it).
Because he had been in daycare and no one was working with him during the day on it- he prob prefers to just do it in his diaper. I don't make him do it on the potty- I just ask him.
There have been times where he has gone #2 and taken off the diaper himself.
I am not going to try to hard since I know from your experiences that it can have negative results.
Cin, I don't think anything you are doing is inappropriate. A lot of PDD kids are freaked out by bathrooms and the sensations in their bodies, and have delayed motor development that affect their ability to use the bathroom. It doesn't sound like your child has these sorts of problems, so guiding him to the potty, rewarding him, etc - I think that's all good!
As long he's not troubled and stressed, it's not inappropriate, imo. No harm in familiarizing him with the potty and putting him on it from time to time, and then praising him for "success" - that's the classic approach, and it can work for some ASD kids, too!
I don't think you'd want to do much more than you are doing, though. I wouldn't do the 'diaperless' thing just yet. That's a good technique when they really recognize that they have to 'go', and can control the urge somewhat. You'll know, because lots of kids'll do things like go and hide behind a couch to do the business, or show some other anticipatory action. With the positive reinforcements you are doing, he may just head for the potty once he has good anticipation and control!
When the girls were showing those sorts of signs, that's when we put them in panties. When they needed to go - they would sort of panic because they didn't want to go in their panties, and sometimes we'd have to help rush them to the potty - but it went pretty fast with only a few accidents.
Cin ... as long as your child isn't afraid and is showing the signs of "readiness", then I say go for it and just go very slowly, don't push, and hopefully it will be an easy transition.
Thats the problem we are having know I can't get my 3 year old to poop in the pot. He will pee all day and then hold it till I put a diaper on him. And sometimes he won't tell me he has to go he will just pull his pants down and pee were ever he is standing. Those cards I got from the school he hates them. He thinks there a puzzle. So we didn't get that far with that. If you have a suggestion let me know. I am not saying that a person has to be verbal to get potty trained. I'm saying that most autistic kids develop later than their NT peers. So verbal development is an INDICATION that they are getting to the age when potty training is appropriate. It IS true that SOME autistic kids NEVER get potty trained fully, or they are VERY much older when they are trained. But, as I mentioned, most seem to train at about age 5, just as most NT kids seem to train at about 2.5 or 3. Aidan will be attending a typical preschool in the fall, so we're going to have to give it a good try at least. Wish us luck!!! He has started to put 2 words together - just started - hopefully it will work out. Presently he thinks sitting on the potty is a really fun thing to do - so we're keeping our fingers crossed. We're definately not going to let him feel any pressure though. And if it doesn't work out we'll figure out a plan B
What about children who never become verbal - do you mean verbal as in speaking or verbal as in able to communicate via whatever method - PECS, sign etc?
My going to 5 yr old is NOT potty trained shows signs I think but they are in NOWAY consistent. I heard ASD kids were close to 6 before trained so I wouldn't sweat it to much if it works out GREAT but if not let it be and try again laterI would love to have him potty trained as it will be easier for everyone, I know they would be flexible and work with us to make it work. The thing is that they not only have an understanding about the needs of autistic children in a general way, they really showed us that they understand Aidan's specific needs as a wonderful and unique child. Thanks for the advice
Also, if Aidan is not ready to be trained we will not push it. I definately agree that that would be a very potentially damaging situation.
There was a thread a while back about what age our kids were when trained fully. Search potty and you may find it. Mine was 5 years 3 months, in his last year in preschool. Once he trained, he NEVER had a daytime accident. Never. That's the good news.Cin0516,I don't know if any one is still not able to train their ASD child with all the advice. I've tried it all. Positive reinforcements of every kind and size
My suggestion? Keep at it, try to stay positive and if any of it is a sensory issue you won't win no matter what you do. But my hope is that with consistently trying in positive ways, when my child is ready he will do it. Otherwise you'll have intense frustration
If anyone has an ASD child that sounds like mine with any suggestions or your experience I would LOVE to hear from you.