Father’s Day dinner, but soured | Autism PDD

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Thank you very much for all your advice.  Your words mean alot to me.  I thought that by taking away taking away his rewards (he is working towards a game system) that it would show him that he has to be responsibile for his actions.  It seems that everytime we have a big fight then he has a good tendancy if not repeating the same behaviors.  When we go out with my little cousin, he used to stare or touch his face.  I always told him he shouldn't, and he would promise he wouldn't annoy my cousin.  One time he did it, and I got really mad I began bearing down on him and getting very upset with him in the mall.  He apologized profusely, but I couldn't help myself I kept pressing the issue on him, to the point that he started to raise his voice, and then he started to cry.  It seemed like he stopped bugging my cousin after that. 

I don't like to have fights with him, but it seems like it works.  Although I am probably wrong about it.  Usually he will call me up at night, and talk to me.  However when we have arguments, he will be sensitive and avoid me because "I yelled at him". 

He really is my best friend, he makes me laugh because he can turn one thing and put it into something else that makes me laugh.  Like how one of the gremlins looks alot like furby a toy that came out a few years ago.  He has a certain way of analyzing things.  I think it may be a sensory issue with the tissue, or maybe it is obsessive compulsive.  I like to put alot of emphasis on my brother, although alot of people say it's a parent's job I make it my job.  I think my mother has a hard time with it, although he is high functioning there are certain aspects where she just tries to do other things to occupy herself.

My brother inspired me, and I started working in a school for children with special needs.  After working there I have learned not to take things for granted, some of my kids are not verbal, and there is one that is constantly looking for attention and in your face.  It has given me a better appreciation of my brother, I mean that in no disrespect to others who are simular to the children I work with. 

The stealing, he takes things that are left behind.  If someone leaves some pictures, or pens, pencils, whatever is left on the table he will take it.  Although he has taken magazines that were in an office.  He also likes to take flyers, put them in his pocket and take them home.  I notice that when we are grocery shopping, he likes to look at the coupons to see when they expire.

Thank you for your kindess




Oh yes I can relate to the yelling and being sensitive. OMG I do not do more than a raised voice of "no" to Aiden or he just cries and cries. He is overly sensitive to everything. I do still believe he needs discipline and direction, but I also realize it is diff w/ him that w/ dd for example who is totally nt. With her I can explain not to do something and why. If she chooses not to listen I punish her accordingly and then later I talk to her about why I punished her (especially if I gave her a butt swat, which I don't do very often). I can do that stuff with her. But not with ds. He doesn't have the same level of understanding, and some things I do believe he does that are ...how do I say...maybe not in his control? Like how you described the touching faces thing. He probably really can't help it. Though I'm not saying he couldn't be redirected or get better at not doing it with help. Now I'm nothing of an expert on this being new to it. I just go by what I've heard from others on here and the tons of research I've read through. I agree w/ not punishing for the autistic behaviors, no matter what family member disagrees (he just needs a good spanking is what i hear a lot). Love and direction are best I feel. Best of luck and welcome to our board.

Amber

The touching of the faces is not that uncommon with kids on the spectrum.  Jeffrey did that in the 1st and 2nd grade.  They just had to keep on telling him that was not acceptable.  He still occassionally does that.  It is just part of the autism spectrum disorder. Also their neurologist told me never to punish them for their autistic like behaviour.  And I know with Jeffrey he can get quite physical with you.  With Gabe, you cannot yell at him, he is too sensitive.  Now if my kids are doing their typical irritating sibling stuff, of course I get onto them.  But no yelling and no getting in the face.  I don't like people in my personal space myself but that is another issue that has nothing to do with the autism spectrum disorder. 

Does your brother still do the touching of the faces when you are not around?  Some of these kids associate certain behaviours with certain places.  It could be he knows you don't like it and doesn't do it around you but still does it at other places.  As far as the fighting, I wouldn't say that that is working.  It sounds like he doesn't like confrontations.  Alot of these kids don't.  Also these kids do exhibit social behaviours that are not accepted by mainstream society.It does seem like you are doing the parenting and your parents arent. 

Tammy

My brother is 16, and I really don't want to use any physical punishments.  We already went through that before, and I myself have endured it. 

I know it may seem like I am doing more of the parenting, but remember it is only one side that you hear here.  It may seem like that, but there is alot of support he gets.  It just depends on who is talking.  No one really talks about it directly though, I think sometimes it feels like by talking about it openly makes it different.  I mean we don't go talking about his special needs and how to integrate everyday.

After I began working at the school (for children with special needs) I began looking at individuals with special needs in a different way.  I mean I never looked at them in a negative way.  But it was a bit overwhelming in some sense at the beginning, I work during lunch with them.  I was put in a class where children needed help with feeding, some children were not verbal, without warning would be physically agressive (scratching me or pinching).  You would think that they would not understand instructions but they do.  When they have to go back inside, we call their names or the room number and they go line up.  I mean although they may not be verbal, they are very aware. 

I never realized that touching faces may be one of the behavior traits in the spectrum.  He likes to touch people's faces (not strangers), it does not happen too much around me, but when he does I tell him to stop and he will.  I feel like he does it on purpose to get a reaction from me.  One of his classmates that he used to talk to, is shy but he sort of avoids him because he will touch his face.

I really want to work on the emphasis of him being able to socialize on his own.  Thank you for all your kind words.  This really means alot to me.


I remember when I first told about the touching of the face.  I thought it was so odd.  And Jeffrey's neuro and other autism specialists told me that is not uncommon with kids on the spectrum.  But yeah it does get annoying at times.  Oh yeah, you are doing a great job for him too.  Just wanted to say that, lol.  Your brother is lucky to have you.

Tammy

Thanks Tabitha, I am really lucky to have him.  He just makes me feel so happy.  I can't describe it.  The only thing I really wish was if my sister would embrace him more.  I guess she just has to do what she has to do.  I have tried to tell her that she should be more nicer to him, but I guess you can't guilt her to do it.

I never really realized that lying and (stealing) taking things left behind, were not necessarily an autistic behavior but even so called mainstream people do it.  I remember I have told lies in the past, I'm not a pathological liar, but it's in human nature to do it.  I guess I have a problem with other people lying to me, because I had issues with ex bf's who used to do it.  I now realize the problem is me, not him.

I am one of those that always thinks they know everything.  I mean I thought that since I am with my brother, and I have started working at the school that I know a fair enough about autism, but after coming on here I realize there is alot more I need to know.  For instance, I thought that by expressing how disapointed I am with his behavior to take away his rewards is the best form of punishment.  But after reading about how some will go into regression, and I do know that when he is upset he begins to talk to himself more frequently, gets upset as he talks to himself. 

I guess it happens to the best of us, where we have to remember not to punish the innocent.


confused....

To give you some idea as to WHYYY the touching of the faces and the more obsessive behaviors... well the obsessive behaviors I'm sure you understand are usually stims because of sensory issues.  But the touching of faces, I just read in an article that with all the new research they are doing... they are finding out that the part of the brain where we memorize peoples faces and how we register a face develops differently in an autistic child.  They don't see people's faces the way we do.  Researchers are believing that this is PART of the reason why so many autistic childeren have issues socializing.... faces look distorted to them OR it takes them a whole lot longer to recongnize someone.  I really believe this to be true, because of how long it took Zachary to warm up to family members that He saw once a week compared to family members he saw a couple times a week.  Now granted a lot of this new research they are doing and things they are finding out are in the beginning stages.... this sure does explain a lot of socializing issues they have.... AND the face touching... I would go so far to say that it helps them remember the person better, kind of like a blind person would touch a face to get an idea of who someone is.

Dear Confused!
How lucky your brother is to have you caring for him!!     I was reading your post here and could only keep thinking .......he can't help it ......it is an OCD!!   Then I read MsSteeleresFan is thinking the same thing!   Autism disorders are often accompanied by other disorders such as OCD, or ADD, ADHD, depression etc.   Some times the obsession can be controlled by medication.   I am not one who views meds as a first trial but I believe they can be useful.   I have read how people affected with OCD are so relieved to overcome their compulsions by use of meds.

  My son has a compulssion to make books out of every bit of paper he can find!   It has gotten better but he used to cut up paper every where he could find it and bind it into little books ranging in size from 1/2 inch to 10 inch size......never quite a full page.....so there was always so much waste!   UGH!   at church he would take paper towels out of the bathroom to make books out of during the sermon.....now he carries his own clipboard with paper on it almost everywhere.    Out of desperation I explained to him that if he did not quit doing this we may have to put him on medication for it.   He didn't want that so he has tried to overcome it.     He still writes but tries to keep it in the notebook with out cutting it up......I know he still does it at home    sometimes but not like before.     Now we can go places and he is not destroying papers everywhere.

I hope your family can accept what is going on with him and try to find him some appropriate help.    He really cannot sop himself with out a very conscious effort and possibly meds.   Hang in there!   I know there are many embarrassing moments but we all live through them!!    and looking back.....we can even laugh about  them    (well most of them anyway!!)     bonnie
Hi,

I have gone onto forums in the past, but reluctantly find myself here looking for someone to listen.  My brother has autism, I think it is PDD, but on his IEP it says mild intellectual disability.  I don't view my brother as having a disability I just think he's different from others.  I agree with another user saying nueros as another term for "normal" because I really don't believe you can classify someone or mainstream as normal.

He is high functioning, verbal, however sometimes he has trouble understanding the mechanics of things.  Since last year in the fall, he has had a thing with kleenex.  When we go out, he will go and get a kleenex in the mall from a store or foodcourt.  I could understand in the winter, because he said he had a runny nose.  He will go to the washroom, wash his hands, use the hand dryer, and use a paper towel.  When he comes out, he will still ask me for a tissue because he says his hands are wet or he needs to wipe his mouth, even when he doesn't need it. 

At school, he has been going into classrooms, saying hello teacher, takes a kleenex and then walks out.  His teachers have already talked to him about this, we even gave him a package of tissues, but he still does it.  He lies alot too, which I have a big problem with.  I will ask him if he went into another classroom to take tissues and he will say no, but if I bait him and accuse him he later on admits it. 

Anyways today we were went to a buffet.  There was some tissues that were used, I had already gotten some myself, so we used the first one you get when you get to the table, and I got a few more so we had some more.  We were getting ready to leave (because there was a time limit since it was busy) but me and my  brother wanted to get dessert.  My brother went back first, and I went back for something else.  When I came back to the table, I saw my brother at the other table behind us, take a kleenex wipe it, and then my family was saying something to him.  He put it back, and I heard the guy (sounded like an ass) say "nevermind, you can keep it now!".  We all began scoulding my brother, I went to get some more kleenex and returned two new ones to the next table.  The guy said "Thank you". 

We all got very upset at my brother, I didn't try to esclate it and press how disapointed I was with my brother although I did say it.  At which point my father was very upset, and said it was embaressing.  He also mentioned that my brother was taking things from school again.  (If he sees people leave pictures or things lying around (they leave) he will take them home, or magazines in the office).  I already talked to him about this before a few months ago, he told me he wasn't doing it anymore, but again it proved he is still doing it.  He seems to like picking up other people's disregarded things (garbage) and brings it home.  I don't want someone else's junk, and I have told him on countless occassions. 

I was very upset with him, up until this point he was earning points for behavior (if he did not stare or annoy anyone purposely) he was earning points for a reward.  I was very upset that I said we have to start from the beginning now, he had accumulated 11 days.  Of course he began to cry, and I feel really bad now. 

He is 16, I love him and he is my best friend.  I am trying hard not to cry right now, because I feel really guilty about what happened.  We have alot of things in common and have simular interests we both like sesame street skits (the ones from the 80's) and other things.  My sister unfortunately is not really close to my brother anymore because he likes to annoy her by staring at her. 

My mother asked my father if he enjoyed today, and he said not the latter part.  I feel somewhat responsibile, because if I had walked with him to the table and not stopped to get some food then this wouldn't have happened.  How can I curb my brother's behavior to lie?  Or to take things that don't belong to him.  He assumed that since no one was sitting at that seat in the table that it was unoccupied and he could take it.  We have been at restuarants where if we want a napkin, if a waiter isn't around I'll just take one from an unoccupied table. 

I want to enforce how important it is not to take things that don't belong to him but don't know how since nothing has worked.  He says he won't take it, but turn around he will take it.  Flyers of no use, are always his choice to take home.  I have looked everywhere online and can't find any information about austim and stealing.  My brother promised me he was going to return the magazines to the office, told me he actually did (twice) and now I find out the last time he told me  he lied again.  My parents don't want him to return the things, because if he does then it acknowledges that he stole them and that he will be treated differently.  I don't know what to do.  I feel bad because it also spoiled my dad's dinner. 

Confused and feeling very bad
I just want to say hi and welcome to the board.  I don't have an answer for you really... I am new to this and my son is only 3, just recently diagnosed classic autism.   I hope that this board can be a place of support for you and your family.  

Okay first, I have always heard neuro referred to as a neurologist, not a normal typical kid.  The second thing is maybe your expectations are just too high for him.  You said he lies and steals.  Maybe he doesn't understand he is lying.  As far as stealing, are these items he sees on a table and picks them up?  You say he is high functioning but what is his maturity level at?  Also the award system, I don't get that one.  My kids are on  a behaviour award system but I never take any points they have earned back.  That would just be re enforcing the bad behaviour.  Also can he accomplish longterm goals.  And what are the days for good behaviour towards?  I know Gabe cannot do longterm goals.  Jeffrey can.  I don't think there is a link between autism and lying.  Nothing I have been told about it.  Gabe had issues with lying.  Sometimes Jeffrey will pick up maps in the store too.  It is not linked to autism tho.

Tammy

hi confused. It sounds to me like maybe your brother has alot of Obsessive compulsive Behaviors that could be the reason for taking tissues and people "garbage" as you put it. You may want to check into it and speak with your parents about talking to his doctor about it.

Behavior rewards should always be positive and never negative. Points should never be taken away. and depending on each person sometimes immediate rewards are needed (stickers, poker chips for a jar, what have you) and sometimes daily ones are needed extra Tv show later bed time etc.

I imagine it is hard on you to see your brother with problems. I know my other kids have troubles understadning their brothers problems. Perhaps a message board to share your feelings with other kids might help? Its nice you want to do all you can for him but really its your parents responsibility

Seems if he is "stealing" at school they should have him paired with a peer buddy or an aide.

Websites by or for siblings of a person with an autistic spectrum disorder

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ALSO   http://www.bbbautism.com/sibs_links.htm

'Kidpsych-Understanding Ourselves and Understanding Each Other' interactive site filled with age appropriate games and fun for children. Life lessons are taught in an easy-to-swallow format.

'The Sibling Support Project' contains sibshops, workshops, resources, recommended reading and more for brothers and sisters of special needs children.

 


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